Dolgellau: The Motorway is clear.

[Timpo]

Anyhow, pop in for a brew

Ok I will, I need to have a run out on the GS. Tea with milk, no sugar please...

Timpo.

 

[Kenny]

Timolgra seems to be just standing around or pointing at things, in a lot of those photos !!!

Seriously, well done chaps and lasses...(I've a back like Forrys so sadly won't get to play up there )... and if I did, I think I know who would be kicking me off !!

 

[DaveGSCymro]

Well Davey, yes, and erm no. No as far as we are concerned.
Best leave the more remote lanes out of the gaze of the County Councils.
Their budgets are required to keep sealed highways, pavements, etc in order for the masses to gain safe access. A few trailriders crossing a remote mountain pass is way down on the priority, yet if they keep getting bombarded by clearing requests on a remote route then it could give the CCs the idea to close the route.
If a route like The Motorway becomes blocked and it is only used by a handful of trail riders each year, it services no dwellings or industry, mines and the like (although it did once), then the route is really 'not necessary' and could be subject to a Section 116, Highways Act 1980. The 'Stopping up of an unnecessary highway'. Once closed it won't matter if it blocks and then it will dissolve into the moorland and be gone for ever.
There are routes where the CCs have cleared after I or other 'Users' have contacted then, the lower part of Byway 72 in Wrexham County due to a large tree falling for example. But the less I have to bother the CCs, the better.

Timpo.

I fear you are trapped between the devil and the deep blue sea with this one.

If you were to ask the council to clear lanes then that could also provide evidence of use, always a strong argument when they are trying to shut them down, but by keeping quiet and doing a bit yourself it clears it for use but when the council "remember" about the lanes there will be little if any evidence of use, unless there is a central log of usage.

Anyway what's the legal point of view of using a chainsaw on a public highway, i.e. public liability issues.

 

[louisdut]

HI!

I'm new to this site, you'll probably tell me to mind my own business, but here's a couple of things to think about:

KTM525EXC is offering a service, this is no different to guided tours all over Europe and Morocco which are increasingly advertised in bike mags, are these paying towards upkeep of roads in the countries in which they operate?

Having been a member of the TRF and local section I played a large part in organising and leading runs outside our local area (not much around Worcester!) I feel that we had very little help from TRF groups in other areas, we had to recci lanes and going to county council offices to look at difinitive maps. Unfortunately my experience of the TRF sharing information is not the best.

If someone is willing to lead runs at a reasonable charge it may stop a lot of people riding in illegal areas, as information on where to ride is becoming more difficult to find.

I posted that I planned to do a run on the GS in the Llandrillo area, although I had not been in the area for a long time (on a trail bike) without asking information came back from KTM525 on the most suitable lanes, in all the years I was in the TRF I never experienced this!

I see that KTM525 has organised a run for GS's around the Peak District the money requested is a minimum £2 donation to the Air Ambulance.

This is my view, I have never met KTM525. At the end of the day aren't we all just trying to have some fun!!

 

[Pipster]

Rudie, sorry if I sound harsh but it's fact, no matter how much you try to paper over it. Tour guides (Commercial Operators) charging £20 to £40 per person per day for what? To use not 'farmer's lanes', but public roads! And when a route becomes blocked, COs are no where to be seen.
Let's say you pay £35 for one single days ride, for another £5, you can join the TRF for one year and ride almost every week for free. No extra cost, and your money goes in to a fund to fight green lane (layman's term) closures.
I'm amazed at how many of the real gems the COs know as most are not even on the OS maps and I doubt they spend much time in County Council offices or Magistrates Courts fighting for them. The answer is easy, the COs turn up on a free, yes no charge, ride led by the likes of me, Timolgra or Hew, log them on a GPS and then go home and add them to their stall of routes to flaunt to the punters.
But when a route becomes damaged or blocked, feck all seen of them until the likes of the TRF or CRAG-UK come along and clear it. Then by suprise, the COs are back......Exactly why I posted the clearing on here, and it worked, bingo!

Timpo.

Timpo

Who the feck do you think you are Lord of the lanes

Some of us have been trail riding long before you even passed your bike test

Get your facts right before you slag off someone as decent as Terry

 

[DaveGSCymro]

Timpo

Who the feck do you think you are Lord of the lanes

Some of us have been trail riding long before you even passed your bike test

Get your facts right before you slag off someone as decent as Terry

Well said.

 

[Timpo]

Timpo
Who the feck do you think you are Lord of the lanes
Some of us have been trail riding long before you even passed your bike test
Get your facts right before you slag off someone as decent as Terry

Yes?
No!
So?
Oh...

Next.......

T.

 

[Timpo]

Well said.

Yes, quite.....

T.

 

[Timpo]

I fear you are trapped between the devil and the deep blue sea with this one.

Anyway what's the legal point of view of using a chainsaw on a public highway, i.e. public liability issues.

Davey,to try and keep it easy to understand, I've used the wording from the LARA site (Thanks Tim):-

Obstruction: Anything which interferes with the passage of the public along a highway, or with free access over any part of it. It is a 'public nuisance' in law, and committing such a nuisance is a crime; it is the duty of the highway authority to seek, prevent and remove obstructions. Users coming across an obstruction may legally 'abate' it, removing enough to carry on their journey. Otherwise, the Highway Authority should be told. There is also a common law right to divert around the obstruction.

I am not a County Council contractor, nor a professional operator, nor an organisation. Therefore public liability insurance is not required, I was only excercising my right following LARA's guide line interpritation.
If I had taken reward for the task, then that would be a total different kettle of fish.

T.

 

[Timolgra]

Timolgra seems to be just standing around or pointing at things, in a lot of those photos !!!

I'd prefer to think of it as a managerial role, but we must have cleared 20 or 30 trees that day, went trail riding the next and I'm still aching

 

[Timpo]

I'd prefer to think of it as a managerial role

Kenny, see what I have to deal with.......
Not a bad boss though...........

T.

 

[Timolgra]

Kenny, see what I have to deal with.......
Not a bad boss though...........

T.

Well to tell the truth I was just the lackey, despite previously working for the Forestry Commission and running my own landscape gardening business I wasn't trusted with a pair of secateurs lets alone a chainsaw....just taken for granted like a skivvy

"Move this, lift that,

 

[Ian Lynch]

If ever you need an other skivvy to lend a hand, give me a shout, even mid week.
Was that J.M. in the hat Timpo?

Lynchy

 

[Timpo]

If ever you need an other skivvy to lend a hand, give me a shout, even mid week.
Was that J.M. in the hat Timpo?

Will do Lynchy...
And yes it was, as keen as ever.

T.

 

[Timolgra]

Well to tell the truth I was just the lackey, despite previously working for the Forestry Commission and running my own landscape gardening business I wasn't trusted with a pair of secateurs lets alone a chainsaw....just taken for granted like a skivvy

"Move this, lift that,

And I've got a BScHons in Rural Resource Management........I want promotion to AT LEAST pruning saw operative

 

[rocks]

Promotion..

Well done Timpo, Tim, et al..
Tim if you were promoted, you will only go and do something silly like cut your hand off..

And same goes for me, regarding if extra pairs of hands are needed in future.. give me a shout. Feel its the least I can do for the numerous trips out you and fun, you guys have organised for nought...

 

[BLUE(UK)]

First up,a LARGE thanks to Timpo and the guys who did the 'dirty work'.I aint ever used a chain saw so if it was more local i think i'd volunteer!!

secondly,i'd like to add,i've ridden WITH(not on)KTM525exc many times and must say it was always a pleasure,he helped www.larf-online.com with many trips in the Peak District,Wales,North Yorks and even in the Lake District(yes a few years ago before the NERC).Many people saved the routes he took us on and now the forum enjoys trips to many places(after checking they're still legal of course) so i think that the guy should be given a bit of a break since he doesn't ALWAYS do his tours and sometimes takes people out on other style of rides for the larger bikes etc.

I think i find it rather sad at the end of the day that we're all arguing amongst eachother and pointing fingers etc.

Anyway,thanks again Timpo and crew.

 

[Rushy]

KTM5, why should it take me, a volunteer, to show you , a so-called commercial operator, where the trouble spots or areas of need are?
Shouldn't it be the other way round? Or are the commercial trail ride companies just take, take, take?
Have you tried, in the last twelve months to clear the route? In fact, a question...have you cleared or financed the clearing of any green lane?
I see that your picture shows a rider displaying racing numbers, yet this has not been an enduro route....
No doubt a member of the 'Hey, look, I'm an off road racer' vein of riders, the thorn in the true green lane rider's ar5e....

T.

Maybe next time you could ask a few questions and get your facts straight before you start slagging people off.

Terry is a decent bloke who was actually offering to give you a hand with your endeavours because he too shares your love of green laning and from the sound of it a lot of your values on how one should participate. You may see fit to call him a "commercial operator" but, although he's too proud to say, a few of us who know him well know that he was only trying to do the best by those that matter most in difficult times. I am sure if you are lucky enough to share some quality time with him he could fill in the blanks for you.

"True Green Laner" - What the feck does that mean anyway. It sounds just like that devisive bollox that people use on here when they accuse others of not being a "true Gser".

I have yet to enjoy the 'dirty' side because I haven't go the balls or skill to do it on my 1150 with tourances, but just out of interest what do I have to do to qualify as a true green laner or a true gser for that matter 'cos I still haven't figured that one out either? Its just elitist "I am better than you" bullshit spouted intentionally, or one would like to think unintentionally, to make others feel small and less worthy. In simple terms its nothing better than schoolyard bullying.

Don't be so quick to judge next time please .

It seems from the outside like it's people like yourself that keep the green laning sport alive by all the hard work and time that you put in and Terry could've been an ally in the cause but you would prefer to give him a hard time and slag him off.

Why?

 

[Rushy]

HI!
At the end of the day aren't we all just trying to have some fun!!

Yep

 

[Timolgra]

Yep

Yes and yes for different reasons, you asked what a true 'green laner is'.

I would suggest yes of course it's someone who enjoys riding them but just as important for some of us it's the historic environment we're riding through.
The lane we cleared is an ancient pack horse route where under the surface much of it is cobbled, the sense of history and past activities in these pretty much abandoned routes is awesome.

The other lane we cleared is part of Sarn Helen , an old Roman road which runs from Cardiff to Anglesey.

Ardent conservationists argue we cause damage to flora and habitats, some of us don't see it quite that way, rather keeping alive and usable part of our heritage and whilst doing so are most sympathetic to imposing as little impact on the environment.

Environmental views change with time, like fashion. In 100 years people could be asking, where have all our historic routes gone? and that would be a great shame and loss IMO.

So for some, it's a tad more than a gloryfied enduro track although who am I to suggest Terry or any other user thinks otherwise, just an answear to your question.

Perhaps if everyone shared the above views 'our lanes' wouldn't be under the threat they now face...perhaps not