Drive Shaft Problem

[Deleted account AWRT]

Has anybody ever had a problem with the drive shaft knocking whilst free wheeling? I have been noticing more and more intermittently, that whilst coasting on the clutch or free wheeling at low speed i get a clicking / tapping noise coming from the drive shaft. It has been described as the sound of a pepper mill grinding the pepper when I move it backwards or forwards. It's in for its 6000mile service on Wednesday but thought I would see if anyone had also had this problem. Bike is an 06 model GS. Thanks in advance for any advice.

 

[Pukmeister]

I get the odd backlash clunk when on part throttle. Always happened. I think it's called Character. Either that, or my bikes a bad one ?

 

[hops]

get it checked

there seems to be have a few UJ's fail recently with spectacular results, as mentioned on this site. If this is something that seems to have just started get the drivetrain checked, especially the rear universal joint just to put your mind at rest.

 

[The Bede]

... They're not supposed to 'click' or 'knock' at low speed or freewheeling (which is most likely when you can hear it).

... ABS light?

... Why not pop it on the centre-stand and turn the rear wheel by hand to feel for any notchiness or clunkables

... None of which will be welcome and might suggest final drive, or joints, or ...


EDIT - If it's an '06 just reaching it's 6,000 service, has it had annual services including an FD oil change (which was added to the service item list sometime '06ish)

 

[Sgt Bilco]

Get the thing in quick....!!

I was coming home from Holland in the spring and had a rumble at 90 mph followed by a bang-bang-bang from the final drive

Turned out to be UJ failure just behind the gearbox. The fitter reckond that if you hear any "odd" noises from the drive, get to a dealer

Hope it`s under warranty.

 

[Demongroover]

My rear wheel bearing is knocking when tested by hand. It was an advisory on my MOT due to the fact I know the tester and he knows I maintain my bikes well.
On a Jap bike I would easily change this myself but I am told it's a b**tard of a job on the BMW.

My dealer said (get this), ....... 'it's supposed to do that' !!!

I couldn't believe my ears!
So what do I do now? It's '04 so out of warranty and the dealer doesn't want to sort it. To top it all the complete unit was swapped out by Bluebell and a new final drive fitted (warranty for surface corrosion) just inside the warranty period.

 

[Deleted account 210609001]

My rear wheel bearing is knocking when tested by hand. It was an advisory on my MOT due to the fact I know the tester and he knows I maintain my bikes well.
On a Jap bike I would easily change this myself but I am told it's a b**tard of a job on the BMW.

My dealer said (get this), ....... 'it's supposed to do that' !!!

I couldn't believe my ears!
So what do I do now? It's '04 so out of warranty and the dealer doesn't want to sort it. To top it all the complete unit was swapped out by Bluebell and a new final drive fitted (warranty for surface corrosion) just inside the warranty period.

No idea how easy/difficult it is to do, I'm afraid. I'd get it changed, though. Isn't there a 12-month warranty on any new parts fitted? Might be worth a question if it was replaced in the last year.

I have read that some dealers have said that movement of less than 1mm is acceptable. I'd still get it changed if it was me - you really don't want the bearing to fail completely and dramatically while you're riding it.

It's frustrating, I know, but things fail and it is out of warranty.

(My 1200 - '05, 30,000 miles - has been ok in this respect, but my "super-reliable" 1150 needed the bearing replacing at its 600-mile service.)

 

[Hexme]

Swap it for a new black SV1000 with a new Sat Nav.......

 

[Deleted account AWRT]

Well just got back from my local dealer "Bahnstormers", where I have tried my best to put across the problem. From the reaction I got it's not looking too good, I was treated as if I had just claimed Elvis was still alive and drinking coffee in there shop:. Oh and by the way apparently when I said that I had got some advice off this site as I have never owned a shaft driven bike before, the guy laughed and said "GSer's" treat it with a pinch of salt...... That's a nice thing to say about a site that feeds the mass population of GS owners. Shame on you Bahnstormers

 

[Richard M]

From my experience since January, this forum is invaluable to us gs owners, and the knowledge here appears to be greater than at many dealerships.

 

[Bahnstormer]

Tell me more............

Well just got back from my local dealer "Bahnstormers", where I have tried my best to put across the problem. From the reaction I got it's not looking too good, I was treated as if I had just claimed Elvis was still alive and drinking coffee in there shop:. Oh and by the way apparently when I said that I had got some advice off this site as I have never owned a shaft driven bike before, the guy laughed and said "GSer's" treat it with a pinch of salt...... That's a nice thing to say about a site that feeds the mass population of GS owners. Shame on you Bahnstormers

Hi gsrichie

As you can tell, I do read the posting on this site and I'm a little disturbed to read this of one of my staff. If you could let me know more about your visit and the reception you recieved, by email, rather than additional postings on thread, I will look into it and try to resolve the concerns you have with both your bike and our service department.

Please rest assured that while we all know there are some oddballs on here that hide behind the keyboard, we also realise that the vast majority of tossers on here are good folk.

Regards
Paul Davies
Director
Bahnstormer Motorrad
Email: [email protected]

 

[Funners]

Hi gsrichie

As you can tell, I do read the posting on this site and I'm a little disturbed to read this of one of my staff. If you could let me know more about your visit and the reception you recieved, by email, rather than additional postings on thread, I will look into it and try to resolve the concerns you have with both your bike and our service department.

Please rest assured that while we all know there are some oddballs on here that hide behind the keyboard, we also realise that the vast majority of tossers on here are good folk.

Regards
Paul Davies
Director
Bahnstormer Motorrad
Email: [email protected]

Now thats the sort of reply some other BMW dealers would do well to note....

 

[Spikehammer]

Paul, well done for replying, in a public Forum.
The guys I've met from your business at the shows/rallies etc have all been top notch so I for one was very suprised to see the comments in gsrichies post.
I hope you sort it and that there has been a misunderstanding as I know you have a lot of respect (and I believe it's mutual) for the site and it's members.
Richie, I hope you find this was an isolated incident and that Paul sorts it out.

Good luck

 

[tuckerqvmcc]

Not trying to put the wind up you by any means but the clicking/knocking sound you seem to be getting was exactly what I was experiencing a month or so before my '04 final drive shit itself!
I could only hear the clicking/knocking noise whilst free wheeling also!
Being my first ever GS I took it to my BM buddy who stripped the shaft to check for wear on the joints (not a thing found) but knocking/clicking noise continued for weeks & then disappeard for a short time....happy days!
I had it in for MOT during this time & the test centre guy mentioned slight play in the rear wheel which i took with a pinch of salt as he said it wasn't serious enough to wory about.
Very soon afterwards I was experiencing front end wobble under deceleration & low gearing.....changed nearly knackered front tyre & checked bearing movement at the rear wheel (was ok) but still didn't cure front end wobble!
And finally came the crunch, nearly got flatened on a fast sweeping left hand corner two up & fully loaded under acceleration when the front end went into a near tankslap.
Final Drive had gone comlpetely.....now I'm glad I kept an eye on this forum cause there were all sorts of answers as to what happens when your FD F*ks up!
From what I'm lead to believe the bearing in the Final Drive packs in & the splines in the wheel carrier & Drive chew each other to bits causing excessive movement in the rear wheel....hence the front end wobble at low speed.
In my opinion I would check the play/movement at the rear wheel, check if the front end of the bike starts to wobble under deceleration....if this is the case then you've probably got a failing FD.....
I learned this lesson the hard + expensive way!
BMW Uk have asked me for my old Knackered FD to diagnose the reason for it failing at only 20,000 miles?
Good luck, hope this info helps.

 

[Richard M]

Hi gsrichie

As you can tell, I do read the posting on this site and I'm a little disturbed to read this of one of my staff. If you could let me know more about your visit and the reception you recieved, by email, rather than additional postings on thread, I will look into it and try to resolve the concerns you have with both your bike and our service department.

Please rest assured that while we all know there are some oddballs on here that hide behind the keyboard, we also realise that the vast majority of tossers on here are good folk.

Regards
Paul Davies
Director
Bahnstormer Motorrad
Email: [email protected]

Delighted to hear that some dealers read the forum. This can only be good for us.

 

[Owen Snell]

Not trying to put the wind up you by any means but the clicking/knocking sound you seem to be getting was exactly what I was experiencing a month or so before my '04 final drive shit itself!
I could only hear the clicking/knocking noise whilst free wheeling also!
Being my first ever GS I took it to my BM buddy who stripped the shaft to check for wear on the joints (not a thing found) but knocking/clicking noise continued for weeks & then disappeard for a short time....

I have seen pictures of the FD bearing before with rivets missing from the bearing cage. Once the cage stops holding the balls in place you are on borrowed time with the bearing. Maybe the clicks are the cage flexing.

Alternatively, a bearing will make a clicking noise when there is a defect on the raceway, the clicks occuring as the rollers / balls pass over the defect. As the defect develops into a longer spall, the clicking goes away and becomes a rumble, then the bearing gets hot and fails.

Any noise from a bearing should be regarded as a potential failure and dealt with as soon as possible.

 

[Pukmeister]

Basic Engineering Principles......

The rear drive shaft uses universal joint knuckles and not constant velocity joints. These are designed for about a 25 degree range of articulation either side of parallel. It isn't much. The joints 'knuckles' accelerate and decelerate relative to each other (change in angular velocity) as they rotate (unlike CV joints) and it is this unavoidable motion which causes premature wear. The greater the suspension travel/movement, and the greater the torque and speed transmitted, the greater the forces (and wear) involved. In an ideal world, BMW would fit a CV joint instead of a Universal Joint, but prices would increase due to the cost.

I would expect any knuckle joint to fail at the knuckle itself and not at the splined shaft, due to the above. I presume the splines you mention failling are the rear wheel spindle and wheel/disk carrier hub splines, not the splined shaft of the driveshaft knuckle joints?

EDIT: Nice to see customer care from Bahnstormer Motorrad. Support your local dealer !!!

 

[Deleted account AWRT]

fairness where fairness is due, Paul from Bahnstormers has since contacted me and low and behold everything seems to have been sorted out. There was a problem, but am still not really sure what they are doing (but they are doing something). I will keep you informed on what the problem was as soon as I understand it myself

 

[GSband]

When I picked up my 12/'07 GS from my dealer after a 12000 miles/20000km service, he mentioned that they'd changed the oil in the FD as this was now required by BMW.

 

[Demongroover]

My rear wheel bearing is knocking when tested by hand. It was an advisory on my MOT due to the fact I know the tester and he knows I maintain my bikes well.
On a Jap bike I would easily change this myself but I am told it's a b**tard of a job on the BMW.

My dealer said (get this), ....... 'it's supposed to do that' !!!

I couldn't believe my ears!
So what do I do now? It's '04 so out of warranty and the dealer doesn't want to sort it. To top it all the complete unit was swapped out by Bluebell and a new final drive fitted (warranty for surface corrosion) just inside the warranty period.

I'm just re-reading FD postings for advise as this is now concerning me and as Pidcocks didn't want to address the problem when it was in warranty, I suspect they'll want a fortune now it's out of warranty.
I'm wanting to change the bearing out ASAP before it fails totally. Has anyone actually done a 1200 FD bearing? Is it a home workshop job? Are there any special tools required? What's the cost of the bearings and seals required?