Engine Mangement Research

Rich C

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Research help needed please guys and gals.

I work for a company which makes ignition and engine management components such as ignition leads and coils for the car aftermarket. Our products are mainly sold through motor factors and then on to independent garages. One of the more specialised things we do though is an ECU (Electronic control unit) test and repair service. For those of you who don’t know what I’m on about the ECU is the computer (Bosch Motronic in BWM’s case) which controls the engine management (fuel delivery and ignition) on your bike. All petrol cars since 1992 have been fitted with fuel injection and closed loop CAT systems in the UK and have had therefore at least one ECU.

The service we currently offer only covers car systems. We can do about 4000 part numbers across all makes of vehicle. This is a small specialised market but given the high cost of a new replacement ECU, companies with the ability have the chance to sell re-conditioned units, normally better than new, at a great saving to the vehicles owner.

I was thinking the other day about whether there would be any demand for us to develop test procedures for the Motronic ECU’s on the bikes we ride. It is important to stress that we are not in the performance market at all. I am talking about simply repairing the ECU to new OE standard. Typical problems on cars occur because of water or accident damage or electrical surges blowing components (try not to use jump leads on modern cars guys).

My question therefore people is a simple one. How many of you out there have had ECU related problems with your bikes that have resulted in you having to have a replacement fitted? I would really appreciate some feedback on this especially from people who work on the bikes such as Steptoe. (Any chance of your thoughts Neil?).

Given the relatively small numbers of bikes on the road compared to cars, developing the above may not make any commercial sense. I may though still be able to convince our boffins to do it anyway just so we have the service available if anyone needs it.

Rich.
 
Hi Rich ,

These units rarely go wrong in every day use ( unless, as you say, the owners have decided to exterminate their own ECU) consider yourself very unlucky if yours does go pear shaped -

i've got a few second hand units sitting on the shelf, and i can't remember the last time i was asked for one -

One of BMW's more reliable parts -

if you need a working ECU to work from, let me know .
 
Neil

Thanks for that. I was half expecting that that would be your experience. Some systems are very reliable and some others aren't. Ask a Fiat owner! The same system incidentally is put on Ducatis.

I had offered up my bike to the boffins to do their stuff with the software but it would be easier to not have to remove the ECU by borrowing one from you. I'll see what sort of responses I get to this thread before deciding what to do.

Rich
 
I do alot of work with Bosch, component failure for ECM is very rare indeed, maybe that's why they charge so much for the developement of the damn things........
 
Instead of making a replacement ECU for bikes, how about making a diagnostic code reader, instead?

Sounds like you might have the info on how to read the error codes, and possibly how to reset them. There are tons of these things for autos, but there isn't squat for bikes.
 
Rich C said:
Some systems are very reliable and some others aren't. Ask a Fiat owner! The same system incidentally is put on Ducatis.

:D

And Guzzies ... see http://www.jefferies-au.org/My16M/index.htm for a replacment unit .. unfortunatluy not as good as the original - does not have the power reduction 3-4,000 rpms. :P


Guzzler - There is a fair old heap on how to read the bm bikes motronic and abs codes out on the web ... not on the R12 can thingys yet but give 'em a year and it will come.
 
So the results of my entirely unscientific research are that this thread (at the time of writing) has had 176 views and no one is reporting any ECU problems. Significantly, the view from the coal face ie Steptoe, reports no failures also.

Well thats good news then. On the face of it we appear to have a reliable ECU on our bikes.

What I will do though is see if I can get our technical guys to evaluate what can be done with these units in the event of failure or extermination by their owners. I have no idea what a new one of these costs but I'll bet it's not cheap.

Neil, I have sent you a PM regarding your offer of borrowing a unit.

Thanks chaps.

Rich
 
The mulitmeter and or led to read the motronic works on the 2.2 and older motronics.

The R1150GS works off of the 2.4 motronic, which doesn't "blink" at ya. Trust me. It actually "talks" computer code to you. I went to a local company that makes ECU readers here in the states (and world wide) and worked with their head engineer for a couple of days. He was hoping it would 'blink', but we determined it 'talked'.

As for the R1200, and it's CANBUS. I can't say, I haven't had a chance to play around with one. But, hopefully it follows the IEEE standard CANBUS rules, then one should be able to read it with the proper off the shelf equipment (laptop, and CANBUS PCMCIA card reader).
 
If it talks what did you try it with? RS232 or RS485 or something else? I haven't tried reading the codes on my 1150 yet but will give it a go this weekend if I get a chance. If I get anywhere with it I'll PM you.
 
I went to "Auto X-ray" headquarters (they're actually around 2 miles from my house) and used their equipment (O-scope, computer, etc). The engineer was aware of the Motronic 2.4 and BMW. He said that BMW is notorious for using a proprietary protocol on all their vehicles.

BMW generally puts an OBD port in the passenger compartment of their cars for third party repairs that provides the minimal amount of information required by US regulations. But then put a proprietary type of port in the trunk of their cars that only a BMW provided computer can read.

GenRad was the orginal company that developed the reader for the Motronic 2.4. GenRad was then bought out by Teradyne Corp.

I found an old PDF fron GenRad. Here is a quote about the 2.4 Motronic:
"In 1995, the company (BMW) adopted a new
ECU, the MA2.4. Existing diagnostic
tools were unable to read the ‘blink
codes’ in this processor and besides
which, were becoming obsolete.
Dealers were having difficulty obtaining
spare parts for the diagnostic system.
BMW was also becoming increasingly
concerned about high warranty costs
due to technicians returning units
which showed no faults. The company
turned to Advanced Diagnostic
Solutions (ADS), a division of US
company GenRad. GenRad has
developed a series of portable, rugged
PC based service tools designed
for use by service technicians
and engineers."

So, unfortunately, there are no 'blink' codes coming from the 2.4 Motronic. Sorry guys.
 
So the 1100 has the more tuneable motronic ?

Has anyone anywhere in private use had any tuning luck with it ?
 
Bump

Anyone willing or knowing enough to delve into the workings of the 2.4 motronic (R1150GS)?!?!?! To at least find away to read the diag codes?
 
hey Guys - just joined - great forum!

Hold on a little longer... the MA2.4 is on its way... :D
Just did the BMSC - Just wondering how many of you have a Symbian Series60 phone :-) ..Plug Specialized Interface into diagnostic connector, Run application on your Phone... Read ECU info, Read Trouble Codes, Clear Troble Codes... etc...

Will let you all know once the first release is official..

cheers
Steph
 
No worries, - it will also be available with USB and RS232 for stock standard Windoze PCs/laptops etc...

The phone is just so handy for when one goes on a trip... :-)

Steph
 
Hold on a little longer... the MA2.4 is on its way... ????

"hey Guys - just joined - great forum!

Hold on a little longer... the MA2.4 is on its way...
Just did the BMSC - Just wondering how many of you have a Symbian Series60 phone :-) ..Plug Specialized Interface into diagnostic connector, Run application on your Phone... Read ECU info, Read Trouble Codes, Clear Troble Codes... etc...

Will let you all know once the first release is official..

cheers
Steph"


Am about to service my bike and have been looking for any new info on FCR software/hardware.

Anyone know what became of this post from 25 May last year ??

Have tried pm but not accepting...

Dave H
 
Dave

I started the thread off to find out if there were any issues with BM ECU's failing. The company I work for offers a service to repair these items on cars. I thought it would be a good service to be able to offer for GSers if it were required. Having spoken to a few people and taken advice from our resident tech guru (Steptoe) I came to the conclusion that there isn't a problem out there to be fixed ie these items in normal use rarely go wrong.

On that basis I would never be able to justify getting our engineers to spend the time required developing a test programme for the units. So from my point of view this one has come to a dead end.

Rich
 
Rich,
thanks for the reply....I can see what you were asking, but the post I was referring to was the one later on in the thread from "Steph" (from South Africa) who alludes to the fact that a diagnostic software package for the Motronic 2.4 was under development. It is this that I was interested in not a replacement ECU. It seems that there is no hope for us mere mortals to get hold of diagnostic tackle for the later model Gs's !!

Dave
 


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