Engine Temperature

[RoyF]

Cheers for that again Santa,

Bike is an - R1200 GSA (90th Edition)
Year - 2013
Build Date - 11/02/2013

That's exactly the same page as in my manual, (although I believe mine is an 0470 model for the UK rather than 0480 which could be for the EU maybe but I could be wrong?)

Tried it both ways, sitting on it at a set of lights etc which I sometime did, and also tried it on the centre stand which made no difference.

It always has worked as per the manual, it only came to light that it wasn't working when I was out with a mate who has the same 90th Edition bike, built a few weeks before mine, and his was working as soon as the engine just got up to temp without fail, and mine didn't.

Yep, your second pic is the oil level sensor, with the connector just below the cable ties. Tried a known good sensor (which works fine on my mates' bike) and still had the same fault.

Which took me to checking the cabling back up to the ECU. So I metered the cable out with the ECU disconnected, down Pin 45 to the float and back up Pin 40 which checks out fine on the multieter, which then took me down the rabbit hole of was there a parameter that the ECU wasn't seeing correctly (Engine Temp, Side Stand Switch etc)?

As per your suggestion, I'm going to have the tank off again today if time allows, as it's still just about empty and the panels are still off, and put 12v down pin 45 of the dosconnected plug, through the float and back up to pin 40, then through a 2w bulb and back to groiund and see if it lights up, could be its reading ok on a meter but corrosion or a break between the two along the line is stopping any sort of current flow? At least that should at least confirm both sensor and sensor wiring.


Hi Botus,
Yes, been through the coding on GS911, both Engine and Cluster, both look to be set up correctly with level sensor enabled in both places, even tried disabling re-testing and re-enabling again but made no difference.

Roy.

 

[botus]

Hi Botus,
Yes, been through the coding on GS911, both Engine and Cluster, both look to be set up correctly with level sensor enabled in both places, even tried disabling re-testing and re-enabling again but made no difference.

Roy.

double check your set up vs your mates ?

in say last year they added a new coding feature that allows you to turn on an Oil temp - I tried, hoping it gave a digital display in the cluster but it did nothing, the bar chart temp display remained OK either way

note coding stuff is set to cover all BMs they support - so a few things can show up to play with that have no effect, as the feature was never on these bikes - its best to keep coding of stuff that doesn't behave or exist as per OEM set up

turn on tyre temp if you have TMPS, thats awesome extra - but sadly its not there on LCD display or K16 bikes anymore...

 

[RoyF]

double check your set up vs your mates ?

in say last year they added a new coding feature that allows you to turn on an Oil temp - I tried, hoping it gave a digital display in the cluster but it did nothing, the bar chart temp display remained OK either way

note coding stuff is set to cover all BMs they support - so a few things can show up to play with that have no effect, as the feature was never on these bikes - its best to keep coding of stuff that doesn't behave or exist as per OEM set up

turn on tyre temp if you have TMPS, thats awesome extra - but sadly its not there on LCD display or K16 bikes anymore...

Thanks Botus...........

Did a few tests today, tank off, unplugged ECU, 12v down pin 40 to sender, back up on pin 45 and through a 5w lamp to ground. Both senders lit the lamp up no problem when the float on the sensor dropped down, and off when it was up, plus there was no noticeable voltage drop......... Next step now is going to be a double check with my mates config with the GS911. Pretty certain its exactly the same as mine, as I enabled his Tyre Temp Display plus the heated grips display a while back and his level sensor is working fine.

Failing that I might be looking at a fault in the ECU with it not seeing the level sensor trigger even though I've proved today the signal is reliably getting up there. In which case that will probably be as far as I can go without throwing a load of money at it.

Roy.

 

[TLSgazza]

forgot

a) engine running
b) engine at normal temp
c) bike upright
d) bike stationary
e) bike in neutral
f) side stand must be up

temps are in the engine DME real time values (go to the bottom and toggle all options) then "play"

please post all all values including engine load value - (running and off, ideally - only if an early non twin cam bike)

Out on mine this morning and I had the "oil OK" come on the display even whilst in gear and with the clutch pulled in whilst waiting at a junction on a few occasions.
I just thought I'd mention it as an update.

 

[RoyF]

Thanks for the above yesterday Gazza. So............ things have moved on nicely this morning and I now have a working Oil Level Sensor again

Issue seems to have been two fold......

1 - Original issue of just getting '----- Oil' 99.9% of the time on the display I believe was down to all the required conditions not regularly being met, as after I had the tank off again, unplugged, removed, tested and plugged the oil temp sensor back in (the one top right of the engine as per Mistacat's pic), I was then always getting the '---OK Oil' message, so although the temp gauge 'appeared' to be working, it might have been a high resistance connection, so the ECU could have thought the bike was never quite getting up to normal operating temp, difficult to prove now. However the oil level sensor being either at its high or low position made sod all difference unfortunately.....BUGGER !!

2 - So, plugging the GS-911 back in again, I played around with the configurations again. Went into 'Engine Controller', 'DME', 'Service Functions', 'Configuration'....... (Need to have the GS-911 with Cloud Connection for these I seem to remember).
In there, 'Oil Level Sensor' Enabled or Disabled made no difference, BUT, if 'Oil Level Low/High' is set to ENABLED, then Oil Level will always return '---OK Oil' once up to temp, regardless where the float sensor is, but if it is set to 'DISABLED' then it will show '---OK Oil' or 'CHECK Oil' as appropriate as it should !!!. (I was using my spare level sensor plugged in but out of the bike just for convenience an testing)

Done a load of tests with all different scenarios and it is all working spot on again !!

Cheers for your assistance all,..... I also have a bit more info on oil temps, the resulting bar graph on the display etc, plus config settings on the GS-911 and what they appear to be doing which I'll post later that may be of interest to some of you, especially the GS-911 settings for Botus !!...

Cheers again, Roy.

 

[RoyF]

Here's a bit more info on how the Oil Temp sensor appears to work on the hexhead.......

And please correct me if you see anything wrong here !!

The vertical bar graph (left hand side on mine), illuminates at the following temperatures, (read from bottom to top as per the bike display).....

TEMP ICON at the Top
8 Bars - Only Lights up during Kombi Display Testing
7 Bars - Only Lights up during Kombi Display Testing
<- Upper arow pointer is here
6 Bars - 139.5 deg C (to a max of 142.5 deg C)
5 Bars - 132.8 deg C
90.8 deg C is the temp required to enable the 'Oil Level Check' function to operate
4 Bars - 84..8 deg C
3 Bars - 72.8 deg C
< - Lower arrow pointer is here
2 Bars - 56.3 deg C
1 Bar - 39.8 deg C

So sweet spot is 4 bars I would say, 84.8 to, 132.8 deg C....... What I also found is that the Temp Sensor / ECU will only report up to a maximum of 142.5 deg C (Did a google search which seemed to confirm that this is the max reading the sensor or ECU can report to. So therefore 6 bars is the very max temp you will probably ever see regardless how hot the engine might get up to as the reading will top out at 142.5 deg C. It will never go up to 7 or 8, but the segments are there and illuminate when testing with the GS-911. There is also NO over temp display or warning once things get very very hot, just 6 out of the 8 bars illuminated and the ECU only seeing a max of 142.5 deg C !!!.

Would be interested to hear if anyone has found out anything different to this. I believe earlier model GS/GSA's temp guages were different and may have gone higher amd to 10 Bars.

Roy.

 

[RoyF]

So as for the GS-911 settings,

'Engine Controller', 'DME', 'Service Functions', 'BMSK Configurations'

Oil Temperature Sensor
This will Illuminate '---OK Oil' as soon as the Oil reaches 65 deg C. (25 deg C before the oil temperature gets to the level where the oil level can be checked, and regardless of where the position of the oil level sensor is.

Oil Level Sensor
Makes no difference whether it is Enabled or Disabled

Oil Level Low/High
Has to be DISABLED, or display will always say '---OIL Ok' regardless of the position of the level sensor.

Slope Sensor
Makes no Difference that I can see.

Fall Sensor
Makes no Difference that I can see.

Wheel Radius
This is probably the bit of a giveaway as none of the settings relate to our wheel sizes, so probably all these settings relate to later bikes maybe ?

I have all these settings set to 'DISABLED' and eveything seems good.............


As long as the bike is up to at least 90.8 deg C, the wheels are not rotating and the side stand is up, the Oil Level Check will be enabled. Neutral or in gear with clutch in or on centre stand makes no difference.

If the clock or something else is up in the display, then a low oil level will bring up just the oil can Icon at rest with the engine running, but no warning light.......would have been nice if it came up with the yellow light and message on the display as well like the low fuel range does ?

There doesn't seem to be a sensor to stop the reading if the bike is not upright, just woirks on the side stand switch. I could test my oil level warning by having '---OK Oil' being displayed with the bike on the centre stand then leaning the bike over to the left and 'CHECK Oil' and the oil can icon would come up after about 4 seconds as the sensor is on the right hand side of the engine, and go back to OK when it was back vertical.

Roy.

 

[botus]

when you say its all set to disabled - do you mean the std setup you have encountered on your bike for all those parameters ?

wheel radius I would have expected relates to the ASC (traction control) - does your bike have it ? it cuts the power to discourage a large discrepancy between the front ABS sensor reading and the rear one. It is weird as they don't accommodate the wheel diameters the GS bikes come with - its the same in Motoscan and the GS911 tool

 

[Santa-2512]

So as for the GS-911 settings,

'Engine Controller', 'DME', 'Service Functions', 'BMSK Configurations'

Oil Temperature Sensor
This will Illuminate '---OK Oil' as soon as the Oil reaches 65 deg C. (25 deg C before the oil temperature gets to the level where the oil level can be checked, and regardless of where the position of the oil level sensor is.

Oil Level Sensor
Makes no difference whether it is Enabled or Disabled

Oil Level Low/High
Has to be DISABLED, or display will always say '---OIL Ok' regardless of the position of the level sensor.

Slope Sensor
Makes no Difference that I can see.

Fall Sensor
Makes no Difference that I can see.

Wheel Radius
This is probably the bit of a giveaway as none of the settings relate to our wheel sizes, so probably all these settings relate to later bikes maybe ?

I have all these settings set to 'DISABLED' and eveything seems good.............


As long as the bike is up to at least 90.8 deg C, the wheels are not rotating and the side stand is up, the Oil Level Check will be enabled. Neutral or in gear with clutch in or on centre stand makes no difference.

If the clock or something else is up in the display, then a low oil level will bring up just the oil can Icon at rest with the engine running, but no warning light.......would have been nice if it came up with the yellow light and message on the display as well like the low fuel range does ?

There doesn't seem to be a sensor to stop the reading if the bike is not upright, just woirks on the side stand switch. I could test my oil level warning by having '---OK Oil' being displayed with the bike on the centre stand then leaning the bike over to the left and 'CHECK Oil' and the oil can icon would come up after about 4 seconds as the sensor is on the right hand side of the engine, and go back to OK when it was back vertical.

Roy.

Roy your descriptions are still confusing

This means

The oil level cannot be read, due to the operating condition not being met





This means the operating conditions have been met and the oil level is ok




AFAIK You cannot get " --- OK Oil " on the kombi ?

its either

"------ Oil"

or

OK Oil

 

[RoyF]

I don't remember what the standard settings were to be honest, but as the first three do not appear to be compatible with these bikes, I made sure they were disabled. Plus there's no mention of a 'Slope Sensor' or 'Fall Sensor' connected to the ECU or anywhere for that matter on these bikes, so I made sure they were also disabled. Plus added to that all the tyre options listed are not for the R1200GS hexhead.......... My bike does have has ASC, I haven't tried it on the gravel / loose yet to see if ASC is still working and cutting power, but as I can still switch ASC and ABS on/off via the left button as usual, I would expect it to still be working as it should.

 

[RoyF]

Hi Santa,

Correct

You first pic shows Oil is not up to temperature so your oil cannot be checked hence '----- OIL'
Oil Temp is showing below 40.5 deg C, (0 Bars), trigger point to enable oil level sensoring seems to be 90.8 deg C

You second pic shows Oil is up to temperature, so oil level can be checked, hence you get '---OK OIL'
Note, the screen shot from the manual in your second pic is slightly different to yours (and mine) actual displays, with the number of bars and position of the arrows.


The only othger scenario is if any of the parameters in the BSMK Configuration are changed. i.e If 'Oil Temperature Sensor' is set to 'ENABLED' in BMSK, 'OK Oil' will appear as soon as the oil temp reaches 65 deg C, regardsless of what the oil level is, hence this should be disabled and then the level sensor works as it should and as per the manual.

Once I sorted out what I think was the Oil Temp sensor connection that wasn't getting me past '-----OIL', then went in and played around with the BSMK settings all was back how it should be

 

[Santa-2512]

Hi Santa,

Correct

You first pic shows Oil is not up to temperature so your oil cannot be checked hence '----- OIL'
Oil Temp is showing below 40.5 deg C, (0 Bars), trigger point to enable oil level sensoring seems to be 90.8 deg C

You second pic shows Oil is up to temperature, so oil level can be checked, hence you get '---OK OIL'
Note, the screen shot from the manual in your second pic is slightly different to yours (and mine) actual displays, with the number of bars and position of the arrows.


The only othger scenario is if any of the parameters in the BSMK Configuration are changed. i.e If 'Oil Temperature Sensor' is set to 'ENABLED' in BMSK, 'OK Oil' will appear as soon as the oil temp reaches 65 deg C, regardsless of what the oil level is, hence this should be disabled and then the level sensor works as it should and as per the manual.

Once I sorted out what I think was the Oil Temp sensor connection that wasn't getting me past '-----OIL', then went in and played around with the BSMK settings all was back how it should be

Roy

please take a picture of this " ---OK oil" message and post it

im curious

 

[RoyF]

You're correct Santa, the only 3 options I've ever seen on the display for Oil are as follows...

1 "- - - - - OIL"
2 "CHECK OIL"
3 " OK OIL"

Just ignore the three dashes I put in before the 'OK' and we're all back on the same page again

 

[TLSgazza]

After observing my "ok oil" at the weekend I made another observation.
On a longer ride such as I did on Saturday and Sunday I had the notification come up.
On my ride to work I don't recall ever seeing it. Though I don't stop very often.
My commute is 11 miles each way.
I don't think the bike is getting up to the correct temperature needed in these cold conditions quickly enough.
It made me wonder how far you are riding before expecting the message to appear.

Edit.
I do get this message but not the "oil OK" see photo.

 

[siddo]

After observing my "ok oil" at the weekend I made another observation.
On a longer ride such as I did on Saturday and Sunday I had the notification come up.
On my ride to work I don't recall ever seeing it. Though I don't stop very often.
My commute is 11 miles each way.
I don't think the bike is getting up to the correct temperature needed in these cold conditions quickly enough.
It made me wonder how far you are riding before expecting the message to appear.

Edit.
I do get this message but not the "oil OK" see photo. View attachment 485726

I don't monitor or think about it since the service dept told me how it works.
If I get a red light, then I'll worry.

 

[Santa-2512]

If you just get the bars, you haven't met the operating conditions

7 miles run work to home, ticks the box for me

 

[botus]

I don't monitor or think about it since the service dept told me how it works.
If I get a red light, then I'll worry.

if you don't have oil OK you should never give the bike max abuse

oil only works effectively once its at 80C

the red light means Stop the engine is likely dead - or will be any second

 

[RoyF]

That looks like a different bike pic dash to what you posted on Sunday night Santa. My bike oil is up to temp and 'Oil level check' is available after about 4 miles or so or about a mile after the 4th temp bar appears. Your bike oil temp scale scale is totally different so cant really compare any it to mine. Is your bike a pre 2010?

 

[RoyF]

if you don't have oil OK you should never give the bike max abuse

oil only works effectively once its at 80C

the red light means Stop the engine is likely dead - or will be any second

Yep, pretty much what I found when testing.... the 4th Bar comes up at 84.8 Deg C, and 'OK Oil' is available when the temp reaches 90.8 deg C.

 

[siddo]

if you don't have oil OK you should never give the bike max abuse

oil only works effectively once its at 80C

the red light means Stop the engine is likely dead - or will be any second

You are trying to tell me what I know and typed.