ESA ?

[REGS12]

Have been reading lots about the wonders of ESA and now doubt my decision to go for standard suspension. Has anyone that now owns a standard model, found it to be a worry?

 

[sanensafe]

Funny that, I have also been reading a lot about ESA and was wondering if I've done the right thing by getting it.
Reliability, cost of replacing, extended warranty? Does it actually do that much?
Should I have got standard suspension and upgraded to Wilbers or Ohlins when it lost it's damping?

Sent from my tablet with spelling and grammar as if I'm on them.

 

[Count]

I think the ESA with the ability to change the bike with a button push to suit what you're up to is fantastic. Sure, a well-sorted setup will be totally OK but any adjustments are much harder to do whilst blatting along at 50mph (my guess not a recommendation to try).

It also means two up and luggage then shifting to solo is a breeze with no faffing about. 80% of the bikes selling are TE spec so it looks like the customer base is mostly going with ESA as well. Warranty costs I can't see being a big difference is the vast majority of bikes are all ESA.

 

[Engineer]

Have been reading lots about the wonders of ESA and now doubt my decision to go for standard suspension. Has anyone that now owns a standard model, found it to be a worry?

I have a standard model and it is fantastic, no worries at all, handling is brilliant and no worries about what might happen or go wrong with complex software controlled suspension. Rear suspension still has manual pre-load and rebound damping adjustment.

In my opinion the fancy suspension is just a marketing toy, after all BMW couldn't safely design a bike with a vast range of user adjustable suspension range, it would be too risky - so stick with the standard machine unless you like playing with gadgets.

 

[Count]

I have a standard model and it is fantastic, no worries at all, handling is brilliant and no worries about what might happen or go wrong with complex software controlled suspension. Rear suspension still has manual pre-load and rebound damping adjustment.

In my opinion the fancy suspension is just a marketing toy, after all BMW couldn't safely design a bike with a vast range of user adjustable suspension range, it would be too risky - so stick with the standard machine unless you like playing with gadgets.

I'd bet the same software is on every bike, with a routine that checks what to engage when it does the self check. The standard suspension still has plenty of software running on the bike - the display gives that away. I wouldn't think a lack of gadgets provides any immunity from a glitch in the control software.

Bear in mind, it's cheaper to produce the same bike parts than to have lots of separate builds. The ESA box of tricks is probably just a sensor rather than another control unit running any control software. I'm guessing but I'd design it with one central brain and add sensors if needed.

 

[SPL]

I'd bet the same software is on every bike, with a routine that checks what to engage when it does the self check. The standard suspension still has plenty of software running on the bike - the display gives that away. I wouldn't think a lack of gadgets provides any immunity from a glitch in the control software.

Bear in mind, it's cheaper to produce the same bike parts than to have lots of separate builds. The ESA box of tricks is probably just a sensor rather than another control unit running any control software. I'm guessing but I'd design it with one central brain and add sensors if needed.

You're probably right on the software but on the Ducati (which I have currently) there is a secondary ECU for the suspension, plus you've obviously got servos that make the physical changes at the shock.

Although my bike is perfectly fine and has caused me no issues at all, the number of people who post up problems with the Duke ESA on forums is a factor in me thinking of changing before the warranty runs out.

Of course, as soon as I ride the thing again I completely forget about that and fall in love all over again

I know that I'm talking about Ducati, and many people will say the BMW system should be more reliable, but no one knows for sure yet.
If I change, and the change is back to a GS, I think I'd go with non ESA.

IMHO the biggest problem with adventure style suspension is too much front end dive under braking - something which the active suspension on the 2013 MTS is said to have sorted. But the front end of a GS already addresses this without the need to constantly adjust the damping - so I would be happy to have a conventionally suspended LC (the handling on my 2007 1200 was superb once I'd stuck wilbers on it).

 

[Count]

I considered the MTS with SkyHook. I was very wary to not do Ducati but the GS in the flesh convinced me and I'm happy thus far. I have not had any concerns with diving under braking (late!).

I think both bikes are great and I have more affinity to my Ducati bikes than this GS but as a package the GS is very good indeed so far for me anyway. Time will tell and maybe a MTS is in my future.

 

[Gav58Bike]

I’ve been riding the standard LC for a few hundred miles and find the traditional suspension excellent. At no stage have I felt the regret at not having the ESA and semi-active setup with the extra weight, complication and servicing. Furthermore, this gives the opportunity to upgrade to Ohlins if the need arises. I do take the Missus touring so will have to twiddle the knobs to keep her happy... metaphorically speaking. I’m sure the full spec bike is also brilliant but having spoken to my five Multistrada brethren who all have Ducati’s active setup, they mostly leave their desired settings alone which kinda questions the extra cost. Today’s MCN also concludes the new active LC is not a major leap forward from the original AC setup. However, the dealer’s seem to suggest the full spec bike is easier to resell come part exchange but you’ll never realise the genuine value of your bike unless sold privately. Either way you’ll be a happy chappy.

 

[REGS12]

Better now

I have a standard model and it is fantastic, no worries at all, handling is brilliant and no worries about what might happen or go wrong with complex software controlled suspension. Rear suspension still has manual pre-load and rebound damping adjustment.

In my opinion the fancy suspension is just a marketing toy, after all BMW couldn't safely design a bike with a vast range of user adjustable suspension range, it would be too risky - so stick with the standard machine unless you like playing with gadgets.

Thanks Engineer, for a while there I was feeling like a fossil

 

[JohnnyBoxer]

I have a standard model and it is fantastic, no worries at all, handling is brilliant and no worries about what might happen or go wrong with complex software controlled suspension. Rear suspension still has manual pre-load and rebound damping adjustment.

In my opinion the fancy suspension is just a marketing toy, after all BMW couldn't safely design a bike with a vast range of user adjustable suspension range, it would be too risky - so stick with the standard machine unless you like playing with gadgets.

I agree, complete waste of money

I had ESA on a 12GSA and the settings were crude to say the least

Once you've had Ohlins/Wilbers on a GSA..............then you'll certainly appreciate quality suspension and how it works

When ESA goes wrong, it's expensive and complex to replace

I see Sachs are the WC suspension suppliers and they're hardly premier league

 

[mfg]

I also agree with the above post. I have had 2 K bikes now with ESA and neither was perfect for me (I am a lightweight 160 lbs) and usually ride solo.
I'm currently running a K1300GT which is great in every way except it's too hard even comfort mode for me. So if I keep the bike I will remove the ESA and fit some Wilbers or similar. As my wife is rarely a pillion it's no hardship to wind up the preload every now and again. If I sell the bike and order a new GS, it will be with the standard suspension set up and no ESA for me.

Talking to MCT yesterday, Wilbers also do a shock where the original ESA motor(s) on the BMW shock can be fitted to the new Wilbers shock, so keeping the ESA function. Look up "Wesa" on their website.

Mike

 

[Rod]

The new Dynamic ESA is nothing like the old ESA.
I bought a new RT last year and the ESA suspension on that was horrible, to the extent that I took it back to the dealer to see if there was a fault with it !
The Dynamic ESA on the other hand is extremely good with Soft being very plush & Hard being firm & Road in the middle. I've now done 700 miles on a mixture of roads and am constantly switching between modes to suit the surface. Of course if you are just going to leave it in one mode it's a complete waste of time.
I don't agree with the MCN view either, they praised the new Multi Skyhook, but I test rode the new Multi & GS back to back twice and found the Skyhook harsh & couldn't feel much difference between the settings, whereas the GS ride was excellent with big differences ( I owned an Ohlins Multi 1200 for two years & 24,000 miles, and liked the bike a lot, so I'm not anti Ducati, I've owned several).

 

[cookie]

I've now done 700 miles on a mixture of roads and am constantly switching between modes to suit the surface

sounds like fun

 

[Engineer]

I’ve been riding the standard LC for a few hundred miles and find the traditional suspension excellent. At no stage have I felt the regret at not having the ESA and semi-active setup with the extra weight, complication and servicing. Furthermore, this gives the opportunity to upgrade to Ohlins if the need arises. I do take the Missus touring so will have to twiddle the knobs to keep her happy... metaphorically speaking. I’m sure the full spec bike is also brilliant but having spoken to my five Multistrada brethren who all have Ducati’s active setup, they mostly leave their desired settings alone which kinda questions the extra cost. Today’s MCN also concludes the new active LC is not a major leap forward from the original AC setup. However, the dealer’s seem to suggest the full spec bike is easier to resell come part exchange but you’ll never realise the genuine value of your bike unless sold privately. Either way you’ll be a happy chappy.

Agree with just about all of that.

Dealers will always tell you that it is easier to sell with all the fancy goodies on because they make relatively more money on the sale of new high spec bikes - I don't blame them for pushing this line I'd do the same in their position and having all the toys is nice; but far from essential and do not make the bike dynamically better in my opinion.

 

[roundincircles]

I’ve been riding the standard LC for a few hundred miles and find the traditional suspension excellent. I do take the Missus touring so will have to twiddle the knobs to keep her happy... 1

My wife refuses to let me twiddle her knobs after 8am. Your a lucky man.

 

[JohnnyBoxer]

Dealers will always tell you that it is easier to sell with all the fancy goodies on because they make relatively more money on the sale of new high spec bikes - I don't blame them for pushing this line I'd do the same in their position

They do

They have said that to me too

The basic bike + HG's and computer, chrome pipes comes in at a shade under £12k, whereas they told me to get the TE at just under £14k

So, that's £2k I'd save straight away on the purchase prices for stuff I wouldn't want, which may prove unreliable and possibly a distraction too

I fail to see in 3 years time, that a basic bike would be worth less than to £2k saved on purchase, over a TE

Judging on the current prices of TwinCam and earlier 12GS/GSA's at present, this would bear this out and the older 12GS residuals, seem to have taken a massive dive in late March/April... now the new bike has been out for 6 weeks

 

[APE]

Absolutely - it will be easier to sell but you'll get a couple of hundred extra for that £2k additional outlay.

All dealers push the extras for the reasons outlined above.

 

[sven]

Whilst chucking away the standard suspenders and fitting Ohlins/WP/Wilbers would give you the best possible suspension, I bought a GS with ESA as it was part of the package (£9999 OTR just before the 2010 model came out) and was much stiffer and better damped than the stock suspension.

However, I soon became a fan of being able to adjust the damping on the move as I ride a wide variety of roads on a weekend from bumpy gated roads to fast A roads and everything in between. The adjustable preload also allows me to reach the floor easier when getting the bike out of the garage, then quickly change to two-up preload when the boss hops aboard.

The convenience was brilliant IMHO, so I made a point of buying my RT with ESA. It's right up there with heated grips and ABS in my opinion, but I do like gadgets

 

[Engineer]

They do

They have said that to me too

The basic bike + HG's and computer, chrome pipes comes in at a shade under £12k, whereas they told me to get the TE at just under £14k

So, that's £2k I'd save straight away on the purchase prices for stuff I wouldn't want, which may prove unreliable and possibly a distraction too

I fail to see in 3 years time, that a basic bike would be worth less than to £2k saved on purchase, over a TE

Judging on the current prices of TwinCam and earlier 12GS/GSA's at present, this would bear this out and the older 12GS residuals, seem to have taken a massive dive in late March/April... now the new bike has been out for 6 weeks

It's all about 'selling the sizzle, not the steak' - the sizzle is great and I can see the attraction but for me it is short lived - I'd rather spend the money on the real meat

 

[Hammam]

...
In my opinion the fancy suspension is just a marketing toy, after all BMW couldn't safely design a bike with a vast range of user adjustable suspension range, it would be too risky - so stick with the standard machine unless you like playing with gadgets.

Did you actually try ESA?