Ethanol added to fuel

[Roger Chatterton]

Now maybe I'm just being paranoid, but a nice man on the Metisse Bikes stand at the NEC ( and boy do their bikes look nice, especially the Steve MacQueen limited edition one ) , was mentioning that this next year (2011), there will be more ethanol being added to petrol, and that this is known to have an adverse effect on fiberglass tanks.
Now to my point - I have a 100GS PD, and the tanks are made from fiberglass I'm told; I always thought they were plastic, but apparently not.

So, -
1. is it correct regarding higher levels of ethanol in fuel next year?
2. does it damage fiberglass tanks ?
3. should we PD owners ( and any other bikes with non metal tanks) have cause for concern ?
4. if the above is true, then what is the best thing to do to protect the tanks ?

And no, I won't consider buying a Tiger XC, or the Honda Crossdresser .

 

[pete.keys]

I read something about this recently but can't find it. The thread started as someone with an HPN plastic tank had issues with it starting to leak. I think some of the normal additives being added to fuel these days does this and tanks need to be coated - I am interested to see what the responses are to this thread to see if there is anything I need to do to preserve my tanks too

 

[Tarka]

It`s all over the Classic websites and magazines.

The main problem is the move from 5% ethanol to 10% (or more).

The higher %age is already out there,in pumps marked E10.

Big problems with tank linings and carb innards are happening already.

 

[NeilDD]

Most fibreglass tanks pre mid '90s will be suspect.
The only stuff I've found so far that will resist the ethanol is POR-15 from Frosts ( www.frost.co.uk )

The ethanol breaks down the resin that holds the fibreglass together, and you get left with a pile of glass in your lap. If you can get a copy of the Old Bike Mart it makes terifying reading

I think that there is a problem also with early plastic tanks, but can't confirm this. (I'll ask next week at my local classic club)

Neil

 

[Rob Farmer]

Loads of problems with the old petseal breaking down. Petseal have a new product called Petseal ultra that is resistant to ethanol. If you have the original petseal in then theres a product for breaking it down into flakes.

These guys have plenty of info http://www.tankcareproducts.co.uk/ and will carry out the work for you for something like £165.

 

[bmwrover]

Ethanol harms aluminium and magnesium, a "wash out" occurs, the alli corrodes. Not nice in carbs, intakes, etc.

But didnt they discuss that the high octane fuel will not get the ethanol addition? Makes the fuel stop dearer but at least none of the above problems.

 

[MickDB1]

I am reading this right
It is know to breakdown alluminium and magnesium as well as fiberglass and some other plastics

What are we using the "new fuel" in cos I recon all cars and bikes have some of these materials in the engines/fuel lines/storage so it should bugger up everything - so what market are the companies after selling it tooooo
I know I am a bit thick but It cant be as said can it ????

Is it a quick thing or over 10 years jobby

 

[turnipbmw]

I am quite interested in running on more ethanol as I have access to it

Its supposed to be good for cleaning out water from tanks etc.

I have heard though, that it dissolves old style rubber hoses/seals etc as well.

 

[stolzy]

I read somewhere that there was no problem with ethanol and fibreglass tanks. No least because there are lots of fibreglass fuel storage tanks and pipework still in use. These have (ISTR) been tested with E10, E85 and even methanol mixtures without ptoblem

 

[MickDB1]

A bit nicked off Greeves riders forum

As both of my Greeves have Glass Fibre tanks I'm particularly interested in this topic. There was a thought that some of the expensive fuel options, Shell V power and BP Ultimate for example, do not contain Ethanol and therefore will not harm the tank. I therefore contacted both Shell and BP via their website. I've yet to get a response from Shell but BP had this to say.

Thank you for your email.

Our regualar grade gasoline does contain up to 5% bio ethanol in compliance with EN228 gasoline specification allowance in most regions of the UK.
However, in most regions of the UK our Ultimate Unleaded does not contain any Ethanol at present (South West UK excluded). This may of course change in the future as the specification allows up to 5%.



here's another off beezer forum
http://bsac10c11c12.co.uk/smf/index.php?topic=2258.0

 

[cherokee]

Aprilia forum

On the AF they have been talking about this issue,there is a big lawsuit in the states involving ducati,and the damage ethanol fuel is doing to plastic tanks.......

 

[bmwrover]

Apparently a cheap fix to the whole problem is to add 1% Two Stroke Oil to your fuel. That shall stop the wash out in the alli and the rubber from going brittle.

 

[DutchBryn]

http://www.ashonbikes.com/content/ducati-facing-us-lawsuit

Read this a while back. Don't feck with the Merkin consumer. Nota bene...

 

[Number 6]

But didnt they discuss that the high octane fuel will not get the ethanol addition? Makes the fuel stop dearer but at least none of the above problems.

High-octane fuel contains MORE ethanol. It's the ethanol that increases the octane rating.

Loads of problems with the old petseal breaking down. Petseal have a new product called Petseal ultra that is resistant to ethanol.

Petseal Ultra is NOT resistant to ethanol, even at 5% I used it earlier this year and it lasted a matter of weeks before it started to dissolve and gum up the carb.

Ethanol is a real menace in older vehicles or in vehicles with non-metallic fuel tanks. It dissolves fibreglass very quickly, I have a BSA Spitfire with a fibreglass tank that I rescued just in time. There are huge problems in the boating and Microlighting communities. And it's going to get worse next year when it goes up to 10% ethanol

 

[GEOFFREY DEACON]

If this Ethanol is so bad, then it will attack plastic floats in your carbs, fuel line and plastic fuel filter in the tank and in-line etc.
It may also attack resins in fuel pump systems?, sound bad
Is low grade fuel ethanol free ,at the moment?.

 

[shuck raider]

Apparently a cheap fix to the whole problem is to add 1% Two Stroke Oil to your fuel. That shall stop the wash out in the alli and the rubber from going brittle.

Maybe we'll see a return of those forecourt oil dispensers that only some of us here 'of a certain age' will remember from the 60s

 

[Morticia]

Don't start me on about the Ethenol increase.

It has taken Gomez months find out why his 1953 AJS is not running properly. Apparently the increase in Ethanol has melted the tank liner and gone into the carbs and fuel pipes.

One quote to have the tank sorted out was £350. Thats not including the work on the carbs and replacing the fuel lines too.


Morticia

 

[Number 6]

Is low grade fuel ethanol free ,at the moment?.

No, it's 5% ethanol and has been for some time.

 

[Number 6]

Don't start me on about the Ethenol increase.

It has taken Gomez months find out why his 1953 AJS is not running properly. Apparently the increase in Ethanol has melted the tank liner and gone into the carbs and fuel pipes.

One quote to have the tank sorted out was £350. Thats not including the work on the carbs and replacing the fuel lines too.


Morticia

Leaded 4 star is still available but it's expensive at £1.80 per litre, however it doesn't contain any ethanol. Nearest supplier to you that I know of is Broomfield Garage, Oldbury Road, Rowley Regis B65 0QG 01215 591217

There is a list of leaded petrol suppliers in the May 2010 issue of Classic Bike.

You can also use AVGAS Lo-Lead if you can get it locally.

 

[Number 6]

Most fibreglass tanks pre mid '90s will be suspect.
The only stuff I've found so far that will resist the ethanol is POR-15 from Frosts ( www.frost.co.uk )

POR-15 is not suitable for fibreglass tanks. It's for steel tanks, POR = Paint On Rust.