Ethanol issues

[daviedevs]

So last year I discovered the rubber fuel hoses on my 1980 V50 had perished. Took the bike to a local mechanic who replaced them all along with a quick oil and filter swap. Last week I dragged the bike out from back of the garage to take her for a little run, turned on the fuel taps, and yup...hoses perished again! I only ever use Shell E5 on my 2 Guzzis, so a bit peed off that they failed again so soon.

Bike is now in Twiggers, Loughborough, who has said he will replace the hoses with a top quality hose? Maybe I should ride the bike a bit more?

 

[jefformston]

So last year I discovered the rubber fuel hoses on my 1980 V50 had perished. Took the bike to a local mechanic who replaced them all along with a quick oil and filter swap. Last week I dragged the bike out from back of the garage to take her for a little run, turned on the fuel taps, and yup...hoses perished again! I only ever use Shell E5 on my 2 Guzzis, so a bit peed off that they failed again so soon.

Bike is now in Twiggers, Loughborough, who has said he will replace the hoses with a top quality hose? Maybe I should ride the bike a bit more?

Before the E10 bollocks, across most of the country Esso E5 has no ethanol. In the hope that this may still be the case I only ever use Esso E5 Super unleaded in my R1150GS. So far I’ve never had a petty fuel going off or rubber perishing.

 

[cookie]

Before the E10 bollocks, across most of the country Esso E5 has no ethanol. In the hope that this may still be the case I only ever use Esso E5 Super unleaded in my R1150GS. So far I’ve never had a petty fuel going off or rubber perishing.

Esso have stated that their E5 now does contain 5% ethanol as it is now a legal requirement.

 

[Clifton]

I think most all blends have some alcohol, since MTBE was eliminated alcohol is used to boost octane. There are dozens of different compounds in gasoline now that could react with plastics as well as old seals, and hoses including butane, pentane, isopentane, benzene, ethylbenzene, toluene, xylenes, etc.....

 

[Oldrat]

Use a fuel stabiliser?

 

[MILLE_RIDER]

Esso have stated that their E5 now does contain 5% ethanol as it is now a legal requirement

It is still legal to sell ethanol free fuel although manufacturers can save money (and the planet ) by adding 'up to' 5% ethanol, so most do.

 

[MILLE_RIDER]

The fuel lines on one of my chainsaws disintegrated because of the ethanol in the fuel. It was a right pig of a job replacing them. A mate has recently has to replace the carb rubbers on his CX500 as the originals were not compatible with E10

 

[wessie]

Use a fuel stabiliser?

that won't stop the ethanol dissolving the rubber

the OP needs to fit ethanol proof hoses as fitted to most vehicles for decades

stabilisers work to reduce water absorption by the ethanol to prevent the water settling out at the bottom of the tank causing metallic corrosion.

 

[cookie]

It is still legal to sell ethanol free fuel although manufacturers can save money (and the planet ) by adding 'up to' 5% ethanol, so most do.

I thought Esso said they were required to add 5% ethanol now, but previously hadn't in certain areas of the country? A quick google suggests I may have been mistaken.

 

[Morety]

Not obligatory to add 5% in E5 fuel. Shell V power and Texaco Superunleaded both contain closer to 2% so that's all I use in my bike. This E10 b*llox is just another example of EU fetish with emmissions controls but they never think longer term on the net whole life costs and carbon footprint of repairing the damage this stuff can do. I make sure, if over wintering the bike that I drain the tank and fill with high octane storage fuel (no ethanol).

 

[casbar]

Esso have stated that their E5 now does contain 5% ethanol as it is now a legal requirement.

No, its a legal requirement to display that the petrol if E5 can have up to 5% ethanol, not that it has. There is a chap on youtube who spends his life testing fuel for ethanol. Currently Tesco super or whatever it's called is ethanol free in its E5. Esso are putting some in their E5 but not 5%

 

[Clifton]

Curious, what's the reason of mandating or incentivizing adding alcohol to gasoline anyway?

 

[wessie]

Curious, what's the reason of mandating or incentivizing adding alcohol to gasoline anyway?

in America, grain farmer subsidies as there is less demand for high fructose corn syrup in soft drinks etc. I believe some states have 85% ethanol fuel, which a few vehicles can use. All tied into your fucked up political context.

in the UK, adopting the EU's agenda to move towards what is supposedly greener fuel but it is more a public relations green washing. Again, tied into a fucked up political context.

As someone from a farming background, taking land out of food production, or in Brazil etc, deforestation, to "grow" hydrocarbons is not something I like to see.

 

[Clifton]

I have to think it's more than just grain subsidies because if you just wish to subsidize grain do so for edible corn, lower the price of tacos, corn meal, etc. But the EPA insists on incentivizing blending ethanol into our gasoline so it must be for energy or emissions. But ethanol energy is net negative meaning it requires more energy to grow corn and turn it into ethanol than provides. So is it emission related?

 

[MotoRevive]

Rotted fuel lines in 12 months?? That wouldn't happen with E10 or even E30 if he's used proper modern fuel hose. That's way way too quick.

Fishy.

 

[MrC99]

I believe some states have 85% ethanol fuel, which a few vehicles can use.

Also in France - E85-Superéthanol at 0.649€/l at our local E.Leclerc. A quick Google shows only a few cars will take it and not sure what effect it'd have on performance or consumption. I think you can get E100 in some countries (Brazil?).

 

[MILLE_RIDER]

But ethanol energy is net negative meaning it requires more energy to grow corn and turn it into ethanol than provides.

Growing corn only requires solar energy surely

 

[MrC99]

Growing corn only requires solar energy surely

Suspect it's the "turning into ethanol" bit that takes more than just free sunshine.

 

[wessie]

Growing corn only requires solar energy surely

you think there aren't any energy inputs into farming a crop? Growing the seed, planting the seed, weeding mechanically or with chemicals, fertiliser, harvesting, transporting.

then you are ignoring the bit of the sentence after "and" i.e. processing the corn so that it can be fermented and then the separation of the ethanol from the corn beer and processing the waste

 

[MILLE_RIDER]

Suspect it's the "turning into ethanol" bit that takes more than just free sunshine.

you think there aren't any energy inputs into farming a crop? Growing the seed, planting the seed, weeding mechanically or with chemicals, fertiliser, harvesting, transporting.

then you are ignoring the bit of the sentence after "and" i.e. processing the corn so that it can be fermented and then the separation of the ethanol from the corn beer and processing the waste

I don't believe growing the crop can use significant energy use by the farmer (compared to the potential energy in the crop) but yes producing ethanol from that corn will entail some energy use

I'll let Google AI solve the puzzle

AI Overview

No, producing corn ethanol does not use more energy than it produces; it has a net positive energy balance. While early studies claimed a negative energy balance, more recent research shows a positive outcome due to increased farming and conversion efficiencies. However, the energy return on investment (EROI) for corn ethanol is low compared to other energy sources and is largely due to the energy credit from the co-product animal feed.

Ethanol fuel energy balance - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org