F 650 GS very wobbly feel after 10K service

Gert

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Hi folks,

I had the bike serviced today for its 10K km. When driving off from the dealer after the service, I quickly returned after riding just a few 100 meters. Reason: it was like I was driving on ice! I could not get the front wheel stable. And with every steering input I made, the bike felt *very* unstable. And it's got a "heavy" feel to it when I want to corner the bike.

My impressions (sorry if I'm a bit untechnical about all this, this is my first bike, so have no experience whatsoever) are backed by the technicians who service the bike and described the front wheel to be "light".

Now, what worries me bigtime, is the fact that they are completely in the dark as to what causes this effect. They still have the bike and will start an elimination process to pinpoint the problem.

Anybody out here that has had a similar experience (maybe on another bike) and can give some clues about possible causes?

Any info would be greatly appreciated!!
 
Not had anything like this with my 800 but I have experienced it with others that have have had grabbing or stuck brake pads and one with bent forks after a high side but the latter is probably not the problem!

Did they do anything to the brakes or pads?
 
thanks for the ideas.

As far as I know, nothing was done to the braking system. And they claim not having touched the front wheel. Tyre pressure was checked front and back and was found to be spot on, so no problem there.

And also the amount and the manner in which the tyres are worn down after 10K km, does not give any indication of anything being wrong beforehand.

The only thing that they have done that could be a possible cause of this, is tensioning the drive chain as it was a bit loose. But they checked and rechecked the alignment of the rear wheel after that.

The first thing they now are going to do, is replace the front tyre. Could be damaged during the test ride they always perform (I guess that's always possible).

The thing I do not understand, is that the bike handled perfectly up to the moment the dealer took it in for servicing. I never experienced something like this behaviour for the whole 10K km.

Any other ideas are more than welcome.
 
head bearings

steering head bearings supposed to be adjusted at service.
does it knock under braking?
 
As far as I know, nothing was done to the braking system. And they claim not having touched the front wheel. Tyre pressure was checked front and back and was found to be spot on, so no problem there.


10,000 service and they did absolutely nothing to the braking system, and didn't remove the rear wheel ???

Surely they should at least check brake pads and grease the pin and rear of pads etc, and same for the rear ?

Does the front tyre have an arrow on it indicating rotation direction ? I'd check all those kind of obvious kind of things first, but dealer sounds, if I might be so bold, a touch erm...vague !
So, not being familiar with the 650/800 range ( but have ridden an 800 !!), I can't really add anything of specific help. Sounds a bit suspect to me though ...but to my mind points towards tyres/wheel problems.
Good luck anyhow - are the dealers, in your opinion, on the case, ie are they proficient ? If yes, then you'll have to leave it with them and trust their judgement I guess...if NOT, well, maybe get a fellow GSer from this Forum to have a look, if there is anyone near you in Belgium.
 
FOGGY said:
steering head bearings supposed to be adjusted at service.
does it knock under braking?
Click to expand...

This is as per BMW requirements voor a 10000km service? Dealer said nothing about having adjusted the steering head bearings (same as ballhead bearings I suppose?).

In fact they told me, that as a part of determining the "wobbly" problem they would check the bearings, but were first going to check the tyres because checking the bearings would mean more work. This -to me- would suggest that they HAVE NOT adjusted the bearings during the service.

To be honest, I am getting a bad feeling about this affair. I mean: I guess it COULD well be that they have done something to the bearings and that the current handling problems are a result that. And they now keep quiet about any adjusting. On the other hand, I think I must not jump to conclusions too soon.

As for the breaking: I didn't notice any knocking while braking, but then, I just drove the bike for a few 100m before returning to the dealer.
 
Handlebars loose, wheel spindle loose, Wheel bearings, Tyre pressure soft, Head bearings notchy, Spokes loose
 
Roger Chatterton said:
10,000 service and they did absolutely nothing to the braking system, and didn't remove the rear wheel ???

Surely they should at least check brake pads and grease the pin and rear of pads etc, and same for the rear ?
Click to expand...

Not that I know of. I know that they changed the oil and oil filter, replaced the radiator top hose (BMW recall thing) and adjusted a somewhat loose drive chain (but for this the rear wheel does not have to be removed, so...), because they told me. But then again their invoice mentions "oil and grease" besides the 10W40 engine oil, so they must have been greasing up something.

Roger Chatterton said:
Does the front tyre have an arrow on it indicating rotation direction ? I'd check all those kind of obvious kind of things first, but dealer sounds, if I might be so bold, a touch erm...vague !
So, not being familiar with the 650/800 range ( but have ridden an 800 !!), I can't really add anything of specific help. Sounds a bit suspect to me though ...but to my mind points towards tyres/wheel problems.
Good luck anyhow - are the dealers, in your opinion, on the case, ie are they proficient ? If yes, then you'll have to leave it with them and trust their judgement I guess...if NOT, well, maybe get a fellow GSer from this Forum to have a look, if there is anyone near you in Belgium.
Click to expand...

Thank you for the pointers. Dealer claims not having built out the front wheel. Maybe they just did a visual check of the brake pads and found them to be OK (mind you, I am no high performance rider, not by a long shot).

I agree on your statement about the dealer being vague. And the fact that they seem to have NO CLUE whatsoever as to the cause of this problem, does NOT give me a lot confidence. In fact, it downright scares me, because I am an absolute ignoramus about motorcycle technics (this being my first bike ever) and the different handling issues on motorcycles.
 
Brian E said:
Handlebars loose, wheel spindle loose, Wheel bearings, Tyre pressure soft, Head bearings notchy, Spokes loose
Click to expand...

Thanks for the tips.

Maybe I must press again the fact that when I delivered my bike to the dealer, it performed and handled perfectly. I never noticed this wobbly sensation, or very light steering as my dealer calls it. And when I got it back, I immediately noticed that light steering and unstable feel, even as I drove out of their parking lot, at walking pace.

OK, it's an aluminum wheel, so we can rule out the spokes; the tyre pressure was checked and was fine.

Brian, what exactly do you mean by notchy head bearings? Those are the so called ballhead bearings, are they not? And what exactly is "notchy"? I know that a notch is like a cut or a sharp depression in a material (like a calendar on a wooden stick, no?).

All these possibilities you mention are good ones, I think. But wouldn't you think that they all would take some time develop? How likely are they to occur in a snap, without some forewarning? Am I right in thinking that they COULD be caused by some impact event during riding?

The dealer told me that they did a few testrides after the servicing, and during those rides, they noticed the light steering.
 
It sounds like the dealership accepts there is a problem but this begs the question why did the service technician hand the bike over to you as being OK?

Replacing the front tyre sound like the dealer is 'clutching at straws' and has no real idea.

Do you have the tyre pressure monitor option on your F650GS?

Tim
 
Tim Cullis said:
It sounds like the dealership accepts there is a problem but this begs the question why did the service technician hand the bike over to you as being OK?

Replacing the front tyre sound like the dealer is 'clutching at straws' and has no real idea.

Do you have the tyre pressure monitor option on your F650GS?

Tim
Click to expand...

Well, they said to me that they thought the light steering could have been a result of my dropping the bike (a drop at standstill!). But even then, it would have been nice if they mentioned their concernes when they handed the bike over to me. Seems to be the correct thing to do from both a good business and a safety standpoint.

No, I don't have the monitor, but I check and maintain the pressure. The dealer also checked this and it is OK.
 
Gert said:
Well, they said to me that they thought the light steering could have been a result of my dropping the bike (a drop at standstill!). But even then, it would have been nice if they mentioned their concerns when they handed the bike over to me. Seems to be the correct thing to do from both a good business and a safety standpoint.
Click to expand...

Sounds like a load of b*******X to me - so you drop the bike, -we all do that sometimes, but how could that cause dodgy light feeling steering.
More like , as someone mentioned that the front wheel is the problem -that's the most obvious place to start ...is it possible that the front wheel is not aligned properly ?

As for their concerns -don't have any concerns Mr Dealer, just correct the bike before you return it to the customer after its service...that's what you have a service for, surely :confused::confused::confused:
 
Brian, what exactly do you mean by notchy head bearings? Those are the so called ballhead bearings, are they not? And what exactly is "notchy"? I know that a notch is like a cut or a sharp depression in a material (like a calendar on a wooden stick, no?).
Click to expand...

Yes that what notchy steering is but imagine that the steering race has been tightened up but to tight and squashed the roller bearings making them oval you then get a slack/tight feeling from the steering.
 
Roger Chatterton said:
Sounds like a load of b*******X to me - so you drop the bike, -we all do that sometimes, but how could that cause dodgy light feeling steering.
More like , as someone mentioned that the front wheel is the problem -that's the most obvious place to start ...is it possible that the front wheel is not aligned properly ?
Click to expand...

Yes, and any off-roading would be totally out of the question, for any bike.
Well, as they haven't done anything to the front wheel, the only thing that possibly could have happened to it - in my mind - is some impact to it while test riding the bike. Because if it is something that takes time to develop into a problem that is as noticeable as this wobble that I felt, I would have felt something's amiss much earlier, and not suddenly like it did now.

Roger Chatterton said:
As for their concerns -don't have any concerns Mr Dealer, just correct the bike before you return it to the customer after its service...that's what you have a service for, surely :confused::confused::confused:
Click to expand...

My feelings exactly!
 
John Armstrong said:
Rear pre-load less that when you took it in?
Click to expand...

Hello John. I'll have to check with the dealer. You would think they have thought of that, but hey, who knows.

Can the pre-load of the REAR-shock have such a big impact on the handling of the FRONT wheel?

While making turns at very low speed (driving away from the dealer's parking lot, making a right hand turn of 90° onto the street, and next taking a left at a T-junction), and also while making very moderate slaloms on a straight road at some 40-50kph the front felt like riding on ice or oil (which wasn't actually the case, the road was clear). A very unstable feeling, just like the front wheel was loose.
 
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