Fibre Optics Vs Broadband

[JayC]

We've recently had a replacement BT Home Hub 3 due to our previous one seemingly being kaput and according to BT (and all the other providers) we have to wait approx 10 days before connections settle down and stabilise.

I've considered upgrading to a Fibre Optic connection in the hope that all will be well right from the off.

In total there are 3 tablets in the house and two laptops. The laptops have very few connecting issues, although at the moment it appears the laptop enjoys an Ethernet cable connection for the wi-fi path than no wires at all and occasionally web pages will still hang for a while, whereas the tablets, 2 x Samsung, 1 x iPad are inconsistent with their connections.

In fact the 2 Samsungs frequently struggle to connect and yet when they do connect they show a strong signal to be had. Last night the Galaxy Note, as quickly as you could say Galaxy Note, connected/disconnected for several minutes until I gave up and switched it off.
This morning the iPad doesn't want to know either and yet the laptop is fine (for now).

To the question - is this a Broadband/wi-fi issue in general, a signal issue (despite being told the connection is very strong) and could these connectivity issues still occur with a Fibre connection?

My understanding (very limited) of FO is that it increases download speed dramatically, but does it also improve connectivity? Is it relatively problem free?

We don'y recall having so many connectivity issues when we were using Fast for our ISP but in the last couple of years it's been pretty unreliable, both with BT BB and Utility Warehouse.

Is FO really the way to go in order to iron out these issues?

 

[Myke Rocks]

Be careful

We've recently had a replacement BT Home Hub 3 due to our previous one seemingly being kaput and according to BT (and all the other providers) we have to wait approx 10 days before connections settle down and stabilise.

I've considered upgrading to a Fibre Optic connection in the hope that all will be well right from the off.

In total there are 3 tablets in the house and two laptops. The laptops have very few connecting issues, although at the moment it appears the laptop enjoys an Ethernet cable connection for the wi-fi path than no wires at all and occasionally web pages will still hang for a while, whereas the tablets, 2 x Samsung, 1 x iPad are inconsistent with their connections.

In fact the 2 Samsungs frequently struggle to connect and yet when they do connect they show a strong signal to be had. Last night the Galaxy Note, as quickly as you could say Galaxy Note, connected/disconnected for several minutes until I gave up and switched it off.
This morning the iPad doesn't want to know either and yet the laptop is fine (for now).

To the question - is this a Broadband/wi-fi issue in general, a signal issue (despite being told the connection is very strong) and could these connectivity issues still occur with a Fibre connection?

My understanding (very limited) of FO is that it increases download speed dramatically, but does it also improve connectivity? Is it relatively problem free?

We don'y recall having so many connectivity issues when we were using Fast for our ISP but in the last couple of years it's been pretty unreliable, both with BT BB and Utility Warehouse.

Is FO really the way to go in order to iron out these issues?

Fibre optic has nothing to do with your computers dropping out.
A new router may or may not cure this.
One comes with fibre optic, and is incomapatable with for example, Samsung wireless printing.
Regarding fibre optic: find out how far you are from the fibre optic to copper terminal. If you are very far away, the result is actually a slower speed than as you are at present. In may case, fibre optic is exactly the same speed, in a friend's house, speed quartered. ( We are both distant from box)
If you are close, speed can be up to 70mb/s and commonly 30. my friend was 0.2mb/s after upgrade. On previous setup, he was 3.2mb/s
Myke

 

[donkeh]

Hi,

The issues you are describing sound like connectivity issues between your devices and your router (home hub).

If any one of your devices is working (able to browse web pages) then the likelihood is that your broadband connection is ok. If your broadband connection is ok - then switching to fibre optic will not help you.

That said, ADSL typically has a "training period" where the card in the exchange that you are connected to, learns the best speed which maintains a stable connection for your line. This can be affected by your distance from the exchange, how many crimped connections there are along the way, how many breakages in the cable along the way (BT engineers favourite trick is to attach crocodile clips to the lines while testing which doesn't leave the line in favourable condition) and even the type of cable to your house (aluminium vs copper). This training period would not normally occur simply because of a change of router, however as you have been advised - if it is going through training it shouldn't last more than about 10 days. The result of a line training is that the connection will drop and immediately reconnect.

Is it possible that it reconnects in the time between you switching devices ? Maybe.

If you know how to log onto your Home Hub, you should be able to get information about how long it has been connected.

In answer to your final question - not likely.

Hope this helps!

 

[newboy]

In addition to above, - is it your BB dropping - a bad wifi connection or interference from other sources??

Lots of friends of mine complain about poor connections...

Raw speed is one thing from the supplier to your premises - that can be measured...

Second is whether your wifi device is working well - the wifi router usually.. do you have any extenders\repeaters?

Third is whether you have any interference on your channels from other local wifi networks... neighbours??

Or - microwaves\substations etc...

 

[JayC]

Regarding fibre optic: find out how far you are from the fibre optic to copper terminal. If you are very far away, the result is actually a slower speed than as you are at present. In may case, fibre optic is exactly the same speed, in a friend's house, speed quartered. ( We are both distant from box)
If you are close, speed can be up to 70mb/s and commonly 30. my friend was 0.2mb/s after upgrade. On previous setup, he was 3.2mb/s
Myke

Very interesting , thanks Myke.

Hi,

The issues you are describing sound like connectivity issues between your devices and your router (home hub).

If any one of your devices is working (able to browse web pages) then the likelihood is that your broadband connection is ok. If your broadband connection is ok - then switching to fibre optic will not help you.

That said, ADSL typically has a "training period" where the card in the exchange that you are connected to, learns the best speed which maintains a stable connection for your line. This can be affected by your distance from the exchange, how many crimped connections there are along the way, how many breakages in the cable along the way (BT engineers favourite trick is to attach crocodile clips to the lines while testing which doesn't leave the line in favourable condition) and even the type of cable to your house (aluminium vs copper). This training period would not normally occur simply because of a change of router, however as you have been advised - if it is going through training it shouldn't last more than about 10 days. The result of a line training is that the connection will drop and immediately reconnect.

Is it possible that it reconnects in the time between you switching devices ? Maybe.

If you know how to log onto your Home Hub, you should be able to get information about how long it has been connected.

In answer to your final question - not likely.

Hope this helps!

Thanks donkeh, this is what I suspected (in bold) and mentioned to BT. If there is a connectivity issue then I couldn't see how FO could overcome the issue, which you have now confirmed.
Very interesting that you point out about the crocodile clip damage. That is not something that would ever have entered my thoughts.

The previous HH3 had a very respectable set of stats when I checked the speed etc but connectivity was next to useless. BT offered the new Hub and I think we are still inside the magical 10 day learning period, just.

More often than not the iPad connects, far better than the Samsung units, and remains more consistent. It is just the last two days the iPad too has suffered with not getting connected at all.

It seems that no matter how strong a signal is there are still other goings on in the world of connectivity/reliability that can create issues and that are out of our hands to be able to rectify.
What I don't understand is how one ISP (Fast) can have very few issues and another can have lots of connectivity issues, yet both use the same phone line.

Email is another thing - no problem on the laptops but the same mail may arrive a day later on all handheld devices, including iPhone. Again, this was never an issue until recently.

There are times when technology is about as appealing as sliding down the road collecting a whole bucket load of gravel rash in the process!

Re ' switching device' - this has been happening whilst 'also' using another device as well as using a different device on it's own. It is worse however, when using the other devices whilst having the laptop switched off.

In addition to above, - is it your BB dropping - a bad wifi connection or interference from other sources??

Lots of friends of mine complain about poor connections...

Raw speed is one thing from the supplier to your premises - that can be measured...

Second is whether your wifi device is working well - the wifi router usually.. do you have any extenders\repeaters?

Third is whether you have any interference on your channels from other local wifi networks... neighbours??

Or - microwaves\substations etc...

I don't know what extenders/repeaters are but the router is a new replacement for the suspected previous faulty unit. I don't see there can be outside interference from neighbours as the connection is password protected.



I will see how the next few days go before calling BT. As mentioned, they did state the stautory 10 day learning period and if all was not well then to contact them.

Cheers all.

 

[newboy]

I don't know what extenders/repeaters are but the router is a new replacement for the suspected previous faulty unit. I don't see there can be outside interference from neighbours as the connection is password protected.



I will see how the next few days go before calling BT. As mentioned, they did state the stautory 10 day learning period and if all was not well then to contact them.

Cheers all.

If you don't know what they are - you probably dont have them then

The interference isn't as part of a security risk but imagine a rogue signal like pirate radio affecting your Radio 4 ) )
The "crackle" on the radio signal will mean the transmission is broken up and must be resent - so no matter how good the BB connection is and the wifi signal - interference means the router must attempt to send many many times- this is what can cause problems in a lot of cases.

Sometimes - changing wifi channel (on the router) can improve things a lot. This is not BT or router issue but just a local interference issue

 

[donkeh]

I spent 6 months shadowing the many BT engineers who failed to fix my ADSL and learnt a lot about it. I also work in the IT industry which helps me to understand better

I learnt about the crocodile clips when one engineer went to grab my pair of wires and they fell apart - being held together by not much more than the wire casing. Apparently ADSL can work over a single wire...

I'd wait till your 10 days is up. Then keep an eye on the ADSL connectivity stats to rule that out.

It does sound like your wireless signal is the problem though. Are you testing near to the router? Or do you have walls in between etc. I live in an older house with solid walls and cannot get a signal halfway back in the house with the router right at the front!!

The query regarding interference from neighbours is not affected by your password protection. This is a radio interference issue - possibly if the neighbour is using the same wifi channel (frequency) as you, or if you have other devices which might encroach on the frequency.

 

[JayC]

Sometimes - changing wifi channel (on the router) can improve things a lot. This is not BT or router issue but just a local interference issue

That's already been done.

I'd wait till your 10 days is up. Then keep an eye on the ADSL connectivity stats to rule that out.

It does sound like your wireless signal is the problem though. Are you testing near to the router? Or do you have walls in between etc. I live in an older house with solid walls and cannot get a signal halfway back in the house with the router right at the front!!

Testing within 1 metre of the router.

We live in a not too old bungalow that if you were really cheesed off with someone you could probably throw that person through the wall and into another room with no injuries inflicted upon them.

 

[donkeh]

Testing within 1 metre of the router.

We live in a not too old bungalow that if you were really cheesed off with someone you could probably throw that person through the wall and into another room with no injuries inflicted upon them.

I'd hate to think the slow internet speed would drive you to testing that theory...

Could then be incompatibility between the router and your devices - but with so many devices it's unlikely.

 

[JayC]

An update on this continuing saga.

Connection dropouts are now a regular occurence. Sometimes dropping out several times in an evening.
Email pop server occasionally fails and display error codes about not being able to send/receive mails.
Home Hub 3 regularly displays connection dropout.
Tablets, last night, showed a display in wifi settings/connections that suggested our connectivity/server never even existed in the first place!

I have made numerous calls to BT only to be finding myself trying to understand these bloody accents from call centres that repeatedly ask me the same questions over and over.
They have , on numerous occasion, reset my frequency, or something like that, their end, to no avail.
They've regularly offered for an engineer to come out and do checks internally, because externally all connections are deemed to be without fault.

To diagnose and repair internal connections is £99 on one day, the next it became £130 to do the same thing!

I asked, " are you telling me that if an engineer comes around and diagnoses/confirms an internal issue, but doesn't actually it repair it, that will still cost me £130"?

"Yes", is the reply!

"So this is a diagnosis and/or repair fee then"?

" ------------ "

Well fack orf 'cos I wasn't born yesterday!

Now then, you guys who are far more techy on this than me, and seemingly more so than the call centres, if I were to change the router for something reputedly far better than a BT Home Hub 3, is this likely to resolve the issues?
What I'm asking is how do I prevent interference on our connectivity creating these disruptions? Is it a quality of product, or lack of, that permits this interference?
Am I making any sense

I just feel I'm banging my head on the wall with BT, especially with continual talks to call centres.
Where are the bloody English accents on phone helplines when you need one?

 

[stever1]

Interesting !.

its a long shot BUT is it worth downloading an app such as inssider 3 (which is free) to check the strength and number of local networks.
This will tell you if your HH3 is pushing out a wifi connection, what its strength is, and if any neighbours are on the same channel as you

 

[sullivt]

JayC


Ask to be connected to a UK call centre as you are having trouble understanding them. They should put you back to uk.

Then ask for an experienced engineer to come out and take a more detailed look at the circuit including the router. You may get charged if there is any problem between NTE5 and router but clarify when talking to call centre. Charges are based on visit charge and time undertaking the work. make a note of the time the engineer is with you.

Failing that go to the directors office to complain.

Had a similar thing happen

 

[JayC]

Interesting !.

its a long shot BUT is it worth downloading an app such as inssider 3 (which is free) to check the strength and number of local networks.
This will tell you if your HH3 is pushing out a wifi connection, what its strength is, and if any neighbours are on the same channel as you

I downloaded this as you suggested, and I'm sure it's a very handy tool for those in the know, but I'm not in the know and to be perfectly honest it means very little to me.
The analytics, as far as I can see just provide me with information, not what I can do about improving connectivity. Like I said, it may well all be there for those in the know but I would much prefer somebody to come and diagnose/rectify this in front of me so I can learn in idiot proof language.
From what I can see the stats couldn't be more in my favour re co-channels and overlapping.

JayC


Ask to be connected to a UK call centre as you are having trouble understanding them. They should put you back to uk.

Then ask for an experienced engineer to come out and take a more detailed look at the circuit including the router. You may get charged if there is any problem between NTE5 and router but clarify when talking to call centre. Charges are based on visit charge and time undertaking the work. make a note of the time the engineer is with you.

Failing that go to the directors office to complain.

Had a similar thing happen

I'll be on the case next week , cheers.

 

[Mr K]

Say you'd like to make a complaint and ask them to have a manager call you back.
It shouldn't be like this, but unfortunately it is.

 

[enabb]

Had a few problems after recent infinity install...Indian call centers were very polite but worse than useless, one girl even disconnected me because she could,nt sort the problem from her script...Once I was through to the Scottish lads...(which took 1hr 43mins ) things got sorted, they could,nt have been more helpful..

 

[(RIP) Kaister]

If you're plugged into the router and it drops connectivity...it's the bandwidth on your cable.

If it drops out on wifi, it's your router.

get a wireless N twin band router for starters.

 

[JayC]

If you're plugged into the router and it drops connectivity...it's the bandwidth on your cable.

If it drops out on wifi, it's your router.

get a wireless N twin band router for starters.

It drops out of both!

It's generally more reliable through the Ethernet lead, but still crap!