Final drive problems...........

[Gordon T]

Does anyone know if the owners on other Euro forums suffer from the same problem that owners here are suffering from? Do they get a better/longer warrantee or are they all the same? I cant believe the Germans would put up with this sort of nonsense. Damned annoying reading these posts on here about FD failures and the trouble they are causing owners. Its certainly made me think twice about the purchase of one.









Rant over.........I`ll get me coat.

 

[autogs]

why worry get one with warrenty and when it breaks they fix it.yes they go wrong and i have had plenty of repairs but the best bike by far.the dealers give good service to in my opinion im very happy.

 

[Michael R1150GS Adventure]

if it is indeed in warranty and covered by one that is...

what about all the poor souls out of warranty and the even unluckier sods in the middle of there jollies miles from home?

 

[Sgt Bilco]

Did you end up buying one despite the dire warnings from a few unlucky souls? What about the huge majority of GS's riding round without an FD problem??

I've done 60k in 4 years with minumum fuss and my FD is as good as the day it came out of the factory (cue the bearing failure tomorrow).

Try concentrating on the positive side of owning a GS and you'll have a long and happy relationship with your bike

 

[Nice 'n' Fat]

That's far too positive

 

[Spout]

why worry get one with warrenty and when it breaks they fix it.

BMW should design and build a bike that doesn't need a warranty to keep it on the road

And all this "good customer service" you hear about goes right out the window once the warranty expires.

Gordon is right to rant.

 

[TurboCharger]

FD failure in perspective

My 2p worth...

Arguably the FD is the most used and abused part of the motorcycle with the exception of the tyres (which get replaced regularly).

IF you compare to the chain and sprokets of any other motorcycle > 1100cc then you'll soon realise that a FD lasting anything over 60k has already saved equiv. of at least 3 full sets of sprokets and chains. The price vs convenience arguement starts here.

Oh and on a safety note, if you've ever experienced a chain breaking then you'll stick with FD if given a choice any day.

The FD will fail eventually and there is no real warning but it isn't likely to be life threatening as a flinging chain could be.

 

[Dahoum]

BMW should design and build a bike that doesn't need a warranty to keep it on the road

Yeah, like thats gonna happen - by any machine manufacturer.

First bike that is built to those specs will make its maker a fine pot o cash. And will probably cost more than any of us could afford.

 

[andyclift]

First bike that is built to those specs will make its maker a fine pot o cash

Yes it would make the manufacturer a fine pot of cash --- ONCE. When we all have a bike that never breaks down who do they sell a new bike to then?

Many consumer items, electronics being a good example, are vastly more reliable than they were years back with the result that manufacturers have to constantly come up with new wizzo ideas that we never knew we needed in order to keep making sales.

 

[theop]

Yes it would make the manufacturer a fine pot of cash --- ONCE. When we all have a bike that never breaks down who do they sell a new bike to then?

Many consumer items, electronics being a good example, are vastly more reliable than they were years back with the result that manufacturers have to constantly come up with new wizzo ideas that we never knew we needed in order to keep making sales.

Exactly. And its not only that. Its also the fact that overengineering is too expensive. See aircraft part pricing etc.

BMW could certainly make a ceramic/titanium FD bevel gear system specced to a miilion miles. Whats the point? Their marketing tells them that the average current GS owner keeps a new bike for less than 30 months, doing an average of 25k km (i.e 15.5k miles). Fact.

Why engineer it for much longer? Why pay 3x in R&D to keep the tail end of the distribution (the ones who buy and keep for 10+ years or 60k miles) or the secondary market happy?

On the former count, (again this is factual internal marketing stuff) the owners to buy and hold for long are considered to be 1) a very much diminishing market (as people can afford to swap toys more frequently than 25 years ago and the products are a lot cheaper in real terms- same in cars really, do you think your 50k BMW 650i is designed to last more than 6 years? Nope) that will be obsolete in 10years and 2) good with a spanner in any case

On the latter count, the secondary market, this is totally my view/speculation I don't think it bothers them (the fact that bikes will wear badly) through second/third owners as it can always be blamed on the former owners misuse and in the long run push those secondary owners into the new market, which is where the money is for BMW. Add to this the fact that BMW is selling more bikes (by a factor of 17!! -fact) today globally that it was in 1990, then you get the idea of how much they care for older/second hand machinery and longevity.

Guys, its money. Money NOW, is what really counts in today's corporate world. BMW (or Honda) are no exception. The name made through longevity -as if machines were hemmed out of stone - does not count anymore. BMW, Porsche (compare todays 911 with the 80s cars), Honda, Mercedes, are all good examples.

 

[Big Derek]

Mmmm interesting comments by all, but no one answered the question as "Do the Germans/Eurpeans get a better warrannty period" ? I would be interested in knowing, cos if you bought a Honda Goldwing GL1800 from the USA as I did 6 times if you live and ride in the USA where they were made you got a 3 yrs warrannty. If like me you bring the US Model into the UK you get NO-WARRANNTY!

But if you bought the European model UK You got a 2yrs warrannty. So now that they have stopped making the Goldwing after 25years in the USA shutting the Marysville Plant . The next new Goldwing (Sept-2011) is coming out of purpose built new plant in Japan I will be interested in seeing warrannty and service shedules........

So just wonderedd if BMW do different warranntys and or specs in the GS?

Big D.......Hoping my FD dont go........now!

 

[Spout]

BMW could certainly make a ceramic/titanium FD bevel gear system specced to a miilion miles. Whats the point? Their marketing tells them that the average current GS owner keeps a new bike for less than 30 months, doing an average of 25k km (i.e 15.5k miles). Fact.

Why engineer it for much longer? Why pay 3x in R&D to keep the tail end of the distribution (the ones who buy and keep for 10+ years or 60k miles) or the secondary market happy?

So BMW should be honest, make the FD a service item - to be replaced every 30,000 miles, rather than claim "lifetime".

And let's not forget new forks for HP2s every 4000 miles

 

[andyclift]

There is no such thing as a free lunch. Warranties have to be paid for in the price of the bike. This makes a comparison between US and European warranties impossible.

Manufacturers would be happy to sell bikes "sold as seen" but offer warranties over and above legal requirements as a sales pitch. Look at the car market now. Makers are tripping over each other to offer longer warranties to sell cars but the cost of this must be included in the car price or the maker goes broke.

If BMW offered a three year warranty the bike price would have to be at least current price + the cost of the third year warranty currently offered. Probably more as the third year is offered with restrictions.

Back to the final drive example. BMW know that most will last for two years so the cost of replacing those on higher mileage bikes that fail is built into their budget. If the warranty goes for three years more will fail so the price of the bike goes up.

Is the answer to build a better final drive. As noted already that would cost more and as the majority don't fail during the warranty period it is a cost that BMW do not need and low mileage owners would be paying for the replacement parts on round the world bikes.

 

[Michael R1150GS Adventure]

So BMW should be honest, make the FD a service item - to be replaced every 30,000 miles, rather than claim "lifetime".

And let's not forget new forks for HP2s every 4000 miles

and woudn't it be good if they offered the FD's at cost to keep a little moral up and encourage people like me to chop in my 1150!

 

[theop]

"Do the Germans/Eurpeans get a better warrannty period" ?

Indeed we never answered this.

Comparing my sample space of the UK, Greece, France, Switzerland and Germany that I know of, BMW warranties are identical.

Bikes are marginally different, Some oil cooler rads size for the south is slightly deeper/bigger, the northern countries get a few components fully galvanised (zinc plated) whereas the Greek bikes don't for example etc.

Also many of the observed failures in the UK, the FPC on the GS12 is a good example, do not seem to happen that much in Greece. Dealers have dealt with 1-2 fpc failures per 100 bikes there, whereas here it seems to be more like 30%.

i have no data on FDs. Again, the main service center in Athens (good friend - also a member here so he may chip in) claims they don't really see significant FD bearing or total system failures. What really fails there on an annual basis are flanges. Oil seals, gearbox seals, fd seals, anything rubber goes. But then over there labour is Eur20 an hour. So you can afford to pay 9hrs labour for the rear gearbox seal to be done annually.

My theory of why seals give up is that the temp difference in Greece between sub 0C winters and 45C summers has much greater variance than the UK ever gets. Add permanent inch thick dust anywhere you go, and you get seal failures easier.

 

[BBB61]

Bikes are marginally different, Some oil cooler rads size for the south is slightly deeper/bigger, the northern countries get a few components fully galvanised (zinc plated) whereas the Greek bikes don't for example etc.

I just don't see that, given the size of the market for BMW in Greece. It must be a fraction of what is sold in the UK and it doesn't seem to make economic sense to have a few components made differently for such a small market.

 

[theop]

I just don't see that, given the size of the market for BMW in Greece. It must be a fraction of what is sold in the UK and it doesn't seem to make economic sense to have a few components made differently for such a small market.

not just greece actually mate.... Hot country markets are as big as ours....

Don't have sales by country & by spec (again the US has for example totally different specs than Europe, so hot US is not the same as hot Europe etc), but can find out....