Final drive repair

[Mark Hooton]

Worth a go

Just had mt bike serviced 07 GS,with all new fluids etc when i paid the bill the dealer says you have a slight rumble on the fd drive probably the bearing and should be changed within 1500 miles or so. bl**dy hell, the bike has only done 5500 miles ,thats why I bought it a couple of months ago from a non bmw dealer, do I complane to BMW UK ?
Gav.

Its up to you matey but if you have a good dealer then it might be worth doing. it`s very low mileage so you `might` find that they are sympathetic even though its waaaay out of it`s warranty.

Hope you get it sorted - I`ll wager the FD oil hasn`t been changed since new!

 

[Rasher]

Well I just had my bike serviced yesterday, I was quoted £285 for 12k +Annual (but excluding FD oil) after the service the bill was £340 and not £285 - because they changed brake fluid as part of annual.

Now surely they would have known what was to be done when they quoted? so either someone f**** up or I got ripped, the price is not (necessarily) the issue, I may have been happy to pay £340 as it is still less than NOG's £400, but now a lot more than Gloucesters £225 (assuming they would not have jacked the bill up once I arrived)

I was willing to pay an extra £60 to Bahnstormers because they looked to me to be more likely to do the job properly, and I trusted their quote to be accurate.

To top it all the bike now keeps cutting out when changing down, so £55 more than quoted and the bike now runs worse.

And people wonder why I seem to "have it in for" for dealers, well seeing as they all seem to lie a lot, when shopping all dealers gave the impression services were around £200 a time, yet this one was £300 - £400 and the next one apparently costs the same.

Thankfully the warranty (you know the one I have still not received 10 months after buying the bike) is up soon and I will not be taking it to a franchised dealer ever again!

 

[shugie]

Well I just had my bike serviced yesterday, I was quoted £285 for 12k +Annual (but excluding FD oil) after the service the bill was £340 and not £285 - because they changed brake fluid as part of annual.

Now surely they would have known what was to be done when they quoted? so either someone f**** up or I got ripped, the price is not (necessarily) the issue, I may have been happy to pay £340 as it is still less than NOG's £400, but now a lot more than Gloucesters £225 (assuming they would not have jacked the bill up once I arrived)

I was willing to pay an extra £60 to Bahnstormers because they looked to me to be more likely to do the job properly, and I trusted their quote to be accurate.

To top it all the bike now keeps cutting out when changing down, so £55 more than quoted and the bike now runs worse.

And people wonder why I seem to "have it in for" for dealers, well seeing as they all seem to lie a lot, when shopping all dealers gave the impression services were around £200 a time, yet this one was £300 - £400 and the next one apparently costs the same.

Thankfully the warranty (you know the one I have still not received 10 months after buying the bike) is up soon and I will not be taking it to a franchised dealer ever again!

I've found Bahnstormer at Alton to be very good at sorting out errors, if you are not happy with the bike, and I wouldn't be if it cut out either, might I suggest you ring them and ask them to help you? We can all make mistakes, and one of my measures of the competency of an organisation is how well they deal with errors. Bahnstormer seem to be an honest outfit and willing to sort out problems.

(no connection, other than as a satisfied customer who will be using them again)

 

[Mark Hooton]

Not good

I can taste your disappointment. If the price quoted was the service + the annual then that should have included the brake fluid - or should have in my book.

Personally, and I respect everyones opinions, I think servicing your own bike (after the warranty period) is the way to go. The price nealy all dealerships charge for labour is scandalous and has no reflection on the actual cost.

Before anyone leaps all over me I have run a medium sized manufacturing Company for over twenty years and I am yet to see labour costs and overhead recovery rate plus a FAIR margin get anywhere near the prices they charge. Sadly, and IMHO, it seems that the price is based on a very good but not so nice fundamental of `charge as high as the market will stand` and the always enjoyable `who needs who the most`.

Not only that but I think most of us would actually get some good satisfaction if we serviced our own bikes, properly of course!

 

[Mark Hooton]

I've found Bahnstormer at Alton to be very good at sorting out errors, if you are not happy with the bike, and I wouldn't be if it cut out either, might I suggest you ring them and ask them to help you? We can all make mistakes, and one of my measures of the competency of an organisation is how well they deal with errors. Bahnstormer seem to be an honest outfit and willing to sort out problems.

(no connection, other than as a satisfied customer who will be using them again)

+1

 

[Rasher]

The other thing is the bill is completely incomprehensible I cannot work out how much the oil cost, or how much went in.

I am Guessing £50 of oil, £20 for filters, £5 worth of brake fluid, so about £75 for parts, that leaves £265 for labour. I was in and out in under 3 hours and I noticed the bike was left for a long time cooling down whilst the mechanic worked on other bikes. I reckon no more than 2 hours could have been actually spent on my bike which means the labour cost in reaity is somewhere around £130 per hour!

It is a 140 mile round trip for me to take it back, plus my time, I paid a huge premium for main dealer servicing and would expect the job to be done properly first time.

Anybody know of a competent independant in the Oxford area, I suspect it is a simple adjustment needed and at "normal" rates probably cheaper to get it done locally, plus it saves me half a day driving around again.

 

[slydog]

self service

a haynes manual is cheap enough . these bikes must be the easiest thing on the planet to work on yourself . they are so basic its genius. i went over mine last week endfloat valve clearences all oils engine gearbox and fd and a general check of brakes etc etc . and i know its all been torqued propperly and quality parts used . try it sometime its really not rocket science

 

[shugie]

The other thing is the bill is completely incomprehensible I cannot work out how much the oil cost, or how much went in.

I am Guessing £50 of oil, £20 for filters, £5 worth of brake fluid, so about £75 for parts, that leaves £265 for labour. I was in and out in under 3 hours and I noticed the bike was left for a long time cooling down whilst the mechanic worked on other bikes. I reckon no more than 2 hours could have been actually spent on my bike which means the labour cost in reaity is somewhere around £130 per hour!

It is a 140 mile round trip for me to take it back, plus my time, I paid a huge premium for main dealer servicing and would expect the job to be done properly first time.

Anybody know of a competent independant in the Oxford area, I suspect it is a simple adjustment needed and at "normal" rates probably cheaper to get it done locally, plus it saves me half a day driving around again.

Perhaps you could ask Bahnstormer to come and collect the bike, remedy the fault, and return it to you. You could make the quite reasonable point that it's not your error, and so should cost you neither time nor fuel.

 

[Rasher]

Thanks for sensible advice, I will give them a call in the week.

I actually had the service done early so I would have "no worries" on my Alps trip, but now it ain't running right so would like it sorted before I set off, stalling as your approaching (or even worse leaving) junctions is not only a pain in the arse, but potentially unsafe.

I know these things do happen, and I am sure the quality of the work done was good, just some adjustment is a bit out and as it only happens relatively infrequently may well of not been observed on test ride.

I chose to go to this particular dealer knowing they were £60 more than another dealer that is about 40 miles closer to me as I got a good feeling when I visited last year, may go back for rectification but not more work as the miss-quote was annoying and they did not seem at all bothered and just demanded the extra money without apology or explanation for the incorrect quote.

I am torn about servicing if I keep the GS, I always wanted a new(er) bike for the start of 2013, I could do the GS myself but as I will be selling it after no more than one more service is required it would be nice to keep up BMW history, but at £350 a service it is just too bloody expensive, may go for an indie so I at least get a stamp

Still interested in a local indie for this cutting out issue, I am assuming it is just a balance / tickover setting that is out

Would be easier for me to pay someone closer £40 to sort this issue than drive all the way to the dealer and back (144 mile round trip - £18 of fuel, £10 of servicing cost and £7 of tyre wear)

 

[VAL. H.]

Hi there,

I see that most people in here had the F/D bearing rebuild on your bike.

Do you have any idea from where I can get the full assy (bearing / seals etc) for my bike (R1200GS 09)/ and also if you have a clue about part numbers or market alternatives.

Also what are the usual symptoms of a damaged F/D bearing.

Thanks all for your time.

The only part you can get from your BMW dealer is the outer oil seal. They're not set up for this job. They will simply fit a new FD at around £900.

Check out bsogri's post on page 1 of this thread. He'll advise you on your best options along with prices etc.

Replacing the bearings in the FDs is quite difficult needing the use of some fairly heavy tooling and a press etc, as I understand it.


HTH Val.

 

[Beemerman59]

The only part you can get from your BMW dealer is the outer oil seal. They're not set up for this job. They will simply fit a new FD at around £900.

Check out bsogri's post on page 1 of this thread. He'll advise you on your best options along with prices etc.

Replacing the bearings in the FDs is quite difficult needing the use of some fairly heavy tooling and a press etc, as I understand it.


HTH Val.

Bahnstormer's managed to do mine OK

 

[Bobbyspit]

The other thing is the bill is completely incomprehensible I cannot work out how much the oil cost, or how much went in.

I am Guessing £50 of oil, £20 for filters, £5 worth of brake fluid, so about £75 for parts, that leaves £265 for labour. I was in and out in under 3 hours and I noticed the bike was left for a long time cooling down whilst the mechanic worked on other bikes. I reckon no more than 2 hours could have been actually spent on my bike which means the labour cost in reaity is somewhere around £130 per hour!

It is a 140 mile round trip for me to take it back, plus my time, I paid a huge premium for main dealer servicing and would expect the job to be done properly first time.

Anybody know of a competent independant in the Oxford area, I suspect it is a simple adjustment needed and at "normal" rates probably cheaper to get it done locally, plus it saves me half a day driving around again.

Bloody hell what a rip.

You could have booked your bike in with Johno at biker warehouse in Swinton Manchester and booked a hotel room in Manchester and had a night out and had the service and still be cheaper than that.

He does a great job as well.

 

[Dr.KC]

The only part you can get from your BMW dealer is the outer oil seal. They're not set up for this job. They will simply fit a new FD at around £900.

Check out bsogri's post on page 1 of this thread. He'll advise you on your best options along with prices etc.

Replacing the bearings in the FDs is quite difficult needing the use of some fairly heavy tooling and a press etc, as I understand it.


HTH Val.

Thanks for the reply. The F/B grooved ball bearing on a R1200 bike is not a problem to find. But it is true that it has some serious job to be done.

 

[Dr.KC]

From the pictures posted previously the first bearing is for sure a grooved rubber sealed bearing 6013-2RS.

Do anyone knows which is the second bearing and where exactly it seats on the assy of the F/D crown;

 

[mikeyboy]

the rest of the bearings in the fd are only available from the dealer,as per my other posts i can rebuild your final drive with all four bearings and seals for about £320 all in or £370 ride in ride out,my workshop is in trowell,notts..mike

 

[Dr.KC]

the rest of the bearings in the fd are only available from the dealer,as per my other posts i can rebuild your final drive with all four bearings and seals for about £320 all in or £370 ride in ride out,my workshop is in trowell,notts..mike

Thanks for the information. It is good to know that there is a solution if something goes wrong.

Thanks again.

 

[ianran]

The only part you can get from your BMW dealer is the outer oil seal. They're not set up for this job. They will simply fit a new FD at around £900.

Check out bsogri's post on page 1 of this thread. He'll advise you on your best options along with prices etc.

Replacing the bearings in the FDs is quite difficult needing the use of some fairly heavy tooling and a press etc, as I understand it.


HTH Val.

Just had my bevel casing replaced under corrossion warranty, they replaced all bearings and seals at Wollaston. They no longer replace as a unit under warranty they repair!!

 

[Dr.KC]

the rest of the bearings in the fd are only available from the dealer,as per my other posts i can rebuild your final drive with all four bearings and seals for about £320 all in or £370 ride in ride out,my workshop is in trowell,notts..mike

Hi Mike, from what I see you have more than enough experience on the issue, and probably you have overhauled more than "one" F/D crowns so far.

What was your general finding so far, opening the R1200 F/Ds;

I mean, why almost 1/6 of the R1200 F/Ds are getting damaged;

Is it matter of tolerances, design fault, mfg / cnc fault, bearing fault, high mileage use, overall bad usage or anything else;

Also, how it comes and most of the times the job done by dealers is like a joke and after repair, rebuild or overhaul, the problems hits back again;

Your opinion, or any other opinion might help us all to understand what is actually the problem, and if there is any kind of, lets say, permanent solution;

Thanks again for your time and answers.

 

[mikeyboy]

in my opinion the whole final drive unit is under engineered,the pinion nose bearing isnt big enough and the main crown wheel bearing should be running in oil which it is not.also the very small capacity of oil in the unit means the oil is "chopped" by the shearing action of the helical gears,my advice to owners would be to "over maintain" the unit,change the oil every time the bike is serviced,and certainly before a big trip,inspect the oil as it is drained and if there is any evidence of metal or the oil is black overhaul the unit,if the unit requires overhaul at 20 to 30 k miles its still cheaper and a lot less hassle than a chain and sprocket set...mike

 

[mikeyboy]

to put it into perspective talking about modern vehicles in general the latest models of mercedes sprinter vans seem to be blowing their engines all over the road, the manufacturers design the vehicles and let us test them,bit like honda in the early eighties,virtually every manufacturer has a disaster once in a while,it will not get any better while we strive for more performance ,better efficeancy,less weight ,less cost..