Final drive repair

[Dr.KC]

Very helpfull

Thanks Mike.

 

[Rasher]

it will not get any better while we strive for more performance ,better efficeancy,less weight ,less cost..

Or while we put up with this sort of shit!

Ford were happy to let people die in Pinto's, nobody stopped buying Fords (I have not, nor ever will buy a Ford personally as I know my safety means cock-all to them) it was indeed cheaper to let a few people slowly burn to death than fix the issue.

Seeing as how many FD's fail, and at such low mileages it would not have taken much testing to discover it (and I bet at least some engineers expressed doubts during the design phase but got overuled by the bean counters) and after 7 years it is not fixed, probably because it is still cheaper to fix a few under warranty than resolve the fault, and as most fail post-warranty it is a nice little earner for BMW.

I stll can't see how a £400 rebuild every 20k is cheaper than a £150 C&S kit at around the same mileage though

 

[Dr.KC]

I stll can't see how a £400 rebuild every 20k is cheaper than a £150 C&S kit at around the same mileage though

That's so true....we all hope that we should not have to O/H the final drive every 20.000Km....

It is very sad when you see such a nice bike to have so stupid issues.....

 

[solidstate100]

it was indeed cheaper to let a few people slowly burn to death than fix the issue

Er not strictly true, whilst their initial analysis did indeed lead to this course of action they were rightly found out and they had to pay some of the biggest damages in history......and fix the issue.

And in terms of your safety meaning "cock all" to them, they like every other manufacturer do have to meet quite stringent safety criteria these days. I would say they are no worse than most other manufacturers in this regard. I would suggest you are safer in a Ford than on a BMW motorcycle, for instance.

Just my 0.02p worth.

 

[Rasher]

If your interested in the facts on the Ford $11 per car Vs lots of dead people a great article is here:

http://motherjones.com/politics/1977/09/pinto-madness

in an internal Ford memorandum. This cost-benefit analysis argued that Ford should not make an $11-per-car improvement that would prevent 180 fiery deaths a year.

One document that was not sent to Washington by Ford was a "Confidential" cost analysis Mother Jones has managed to obtain, showing that crash fires could be largely prevented for considerably less than $11 a car.

Until recently, it was clear that, whatever the cost of these settlements, it was not enough to seriously cut into the Pinto's enormous profits. The cost of retooling Pinto assembly lines and of equipping each car with a safety gadget like that $5.08 Goodyear bladder was, company accountants calculated, greater than that of paying out millions to survivors like Robbie Carlton or to widows and widowers of victims like Sandra Gillespie. The bottom line ruled, and inflammable Pintos kept rolling out of the factories.

But the bottom line is all manufacturers put profits above lives..

Furthermore, cost-valuing human life is not used by Ford alone. Ford was just the only company careless enough to let such an embarrassing calculation slip into public records. The process of willfully trading lives for profits is built into corporate capitalism

So I can't see an FD fix any time soon if it is cheaper to make crap ones and replace some under warranty, than it is to properly re-design them.

 

[Dr.KC]

So I can't see an FD fix any time soon if it is cheaper to make crap ones and replace some under warranty, than it is to properly re-design them.

+1

Sometimes I feel like, I shall uninstall the complete F/D assy and go to my freinds CNC mashine an start the improvements.....

Do you have any idea if any crazy guy did anything like that in the past....It should be great fun

 

[Dr.KC]

to put it into perspective talking about modern vehicles in general the latest models of mercedes sprinter vans seem to be blowing their engines all over the road, the manufacturers design the vehicles and let us test them,bit like honda in the early eighties,virtually every manufacturer has a disaster once in a while,it will not get any better while we strive for more performance ,better efficeancy,less weight ,less cost..

+1

Just a question, do you have any idea which is the contracted bearing manufacturer of BMW. I mean, is it SKF, NACHI, TNT.....etc.....it seems that most of the bearings used, especially on 1200 models, have serius quality problems.

I know that most of the bearings used are "closed" P/N with reserved rights to BMW.

 

[Dr.KC]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-U0hdyxbc1c

Actually, from the video above (R1200C F/D, I do not know if its the same with the R1200GS/ADV F/D) it seems like the grooved ball bearing is not shield (I do not know though if there was any rubber shield and they just removed it).

Also it seems that the roller bearing is not lubricated by the F/D oil. Actually the only parts getting lubricated are the F/D gears and the small roller bearing on the other end.

Do any of you believe that if someone replaces the big roller bearing with a brand name equivalent bearing from NTN, NACHI etc will short out the problems;

 

[mikeyboy]

dr kc,the final drive in that vid is very different to a gs one..the main crown wheel bearing/wheel side is a 6013.2rs, the 2rs meaning rubber seal,these are a standard bearing and are available from any bearing factor.now the only protection this bearing has from the elements,road dirt,pressure washing etc is its own rubber seal which is why some bikes get "wheel bearing play",looking at pictures of bearings that have failed with dirt and rust in them this is almost certainly down to exuberant pressure washing.this is not to be confused with metal in the oil or black oil which is generally down to pinion nose bearing wear.in my previous post regarding overhaul at 20 to 30 k miles people commented that they should not need doing at these mileage ,fair comment ,but i think realisticly, many units have done far higher mileages with no problems,if you think about the numbers of gs12,s sold worldwide the number of lower mileage failures are probably not that bad.anyway back to the crown wheel bearing,i have been told that you can use a 6013 du bearing,nsk no 6013dducm.which has better seals,now i am not an expert on bearings so proffessional advice should be taken before fitting one of these type bearings but im led to believe they have a lipped seal,so should prevent water ingress better.if you want to see some photos of the internals of the unit patzx12 posted up his fd overhaul and it is an excellent thread..mike

 

[Dr.KC]

......think realisticly, many units have done far higher mileages with no problems,if you think about the numbers of gs12,s sold worldwide the number of lower mileage failures are probably not that bad......


..... but im led to believe they have a lipped seal,so should prevent water ingress better.....

Mike you are the man.

Thanks for the info.

 

[NorthernBoy]

My bike's in for a service, and I got the call to tell me that it needs a new rear wheel bearing, at a cost of £4000. I grumbled a bit, but agreed the work. I was just called back to say that the whole final drive needs replacing, with the part alone costing £800. I'm looking at a very expensive reppair now, which I'm not so happy about on a bike with 18,00 miles on it since I bought it new.

The reason given for the new drive unit being needed was that the recess for the bearing was worn. I asked why they don't just machine it out to the next size bearing up, but was told that that would necessitate replacing so many pieces that it'd be no cheaper than replacing the whole unit.

Has anyone else had this issue? The bike is (just) out of warranty, and for some reason BMW never offered me the extended one, and I didn't think to call up and ask about it before the service was done.

 

[cookie]

what about asking for a goodwill contribution from bmw?

sounds like you'd have a very good case.

 

[mikeyboy]

My bike's in for a service, and I got the call to tell me that it needs a new rear wheel bearing, at a cost of £4000. I grumbled a bit, but agreed the work. I was just called back to say that the whole final drive needs replacing, with the part alone costing £800. I'm looking at a very expensive reppair now, which I'm not so happy about on a bike with 18,00 miles on it since I bought it new.

The reason given for the new drive unit being needed was that the recess for the bearing was worn. I asked why they don't just machine it out to the next size bearing up, but was told that that would necessitate replacing so many pieces that it'd be no cheaper than replacing the whole unit.

Has anyone else had this issue? The bike is (just) out of warranty, and for some reason BMW never offered me the extended one, and I didn't think to call up and ask about it before the service was done.

sounds more likely to me that they have buggered the housing trying to press the assembly apart or pressed the new bearing in on the piss.i would ask to inspect the "worn" parts before agreeing to pay for the repair.

 

[BBB61]

My bike's in for a service, and I got the call to tell me that it needs a new rear wheel bearing, at a cost of £4000. I grumbled a bit, but agreed the work. I was just called back to say that the whole final drive needs replacing, with the part alone costing £800. I'm looking at a very expensive reppair now, which I'm not so happy about on a bike with 18,00 miles on it since I bought it new.

The reason given for the new drive unit being needed was that the recess for the bearing was worn. I asked why they don't just machine it out to the next size bearing up, but was told that that would necessitate replacing so many pieces that it'd be no cheaper than replacing the whole unit.

Has anyone else had this issue? The bike is (just) out of warranty, and for some reason BMW never offered me the extended one, and I didn't think to call up and ask about it before the service was done.

How the hell did they come up with a figure of £4000??