Forgotten Weapons

[Clifton]

I wasn't sure whether to post this in the "YouTube" section or here in the "Shooting" section? But even though it's a YouTube channel it's exclusively about all sorts of firearms so I decided here.
Ian McCullom's "Forgotten Weapons" YouTube Channel. This one's on the Webley .22 Model MK IV Target Revolver

In each video (and there are quite a lot of them) he does a nice job covering a particular firearm including its history, development, features, and function. So if you're interested in firearms, and learning about something like your grandfather's old WW1 Enfield sniper rifle Ian has probably reviewed it.

 

[Doris]

There’s a dealer in the uk that specialises in .303’s. I keep being drawn towards them. I had A Parker-Hale T4 that had been rebarreled in 7.62, with a period scope fitted. A lovely thing.
My first (non- air rifle) experience at the age of 14 was with a break top single shot .22 Webley&Scott target pistol.

 

[Clifton]

I've never seen that revolver but used to see a lot of Mauser and Enfield surplus rifles around. Many of them were cut down to make into sporters.

 

[KMD]

I have a Ruger M77 in .308 (7.62), which is a lovely engineered thing with the Mauser action, very accurate, and I’ve long held an ambition to have a Lee Enfield .303 but nice ones are commanding strong money now.

 

[leadfarmer]

and I’ve long held an ambition to have a Lee Enfield .303 but nice ones are commanding strong money now.

It has to have the magazine cut off and a volley site, both of which are possible to find, but the grail is one with a Flanders flap too

 

[Doris]

I have a Ruger M77 in .308 (7.62), which is a lovely engineered thing with the Mauser action, very accurate, and I’ve long held an ambition to have a Lee Enfield .303 but nice ones are commanding strong money now.

Have a good look round here…

Lee Enfield SMLE Rifles For Sale

Discover Lee Enfield SMLE rifles for sale at Henry Krank. Shop our selection of proofed, shoot-ready rifles, perfect for collectors and enthusiasts alike.

www.henrykrank.com

 

[KMD]

Have a good look round here…

Lee Enfield SMLE Rifles For Sale

Discover Lee Enfield SMLE rifles for sale at Henry Krank. Shop our selection of proofed, shoot-ready rifles, perfect for collectors and enthusiasts alike.

www.henrykrank.com

Thanks Doris, I usually get my reloading stuff from Kranks, it’s like Aladdin’s Cave in there

 

[Neil W]

Lee Enfield video reminds me of when we used to do firearms renewals and inspections , many of the fishermen had section one firearms certificate for a rifle to despatch seals caught in their nets .

On more than one occasion went to do the enquiry and their licence was for a Lee Enfield .303 with a set serial nos and "x" amount of .303 ammunition , you got there and the serial number was correct but they had a box of either mixed .303 and 7.62 mm NATO ammunition or just the 7.62 mm stuff.

You would find that the the rifles had been converted at some stage of their military career and somehow slipped through the net when sold off into civilian use , pain in the backside to get the paperwork sorted to the satisfaction of the bosses .

General consensus of opinion was that when they actually took the rifles to sea the safest place to be was with the seal as they were all terrible shots

 

[Wapping]

History is full of some often quite bizarre forgotten weapons. I suspect some were of more danger to the operator, than the enemy.

 

[Clifton]

I'm surprised more of the old bronze and iron canons didn't burst, especially after double shotting them.

 

[Wapping]

I'm surprised more of the old bronze and iron canons didn't burst, especially after double shotting them.

Not far from where I live in London, were the old (as in Medieval old) proving grounds for the monarchs’ of the time artillery. The spirit lives on in the name of streets (Artillery Lane, for instance) and in the Honourable Artillery Company, whose HQ is on the same grounds.

Similarly, the London Proof House, is not far away:



Dating from 1637, it is still going but the near by bell foundry is gone, sadly. A little bit of London history, lost.

Armoury House | Venue Hire Central London | The HAC

Explore the Armoury House here at The Honourable Artillery Company. The Grade II listed building situated in the heart of the City of London was built in 1735.

hac.org.uk

London Proof House | Home of Gun Proof Since 1637

The London Proof House is the oldest gun proof house in the world, still providing military proof, best gun proof, deactivation and certification services.

www.gunproof.co.uk

The Worshipful Company of Gunmakers, UK Proof House

Discover the history & role of the Worshipful Company of Gunmakers, part of the UK’s gun proving tradition. Learn about its heritage, responsibilities & legacy.

www.gunproof.co.uk

It is strange to think that the first British colony in America was founded only 30 years earlier in 1607.

 

[Larry Langford]

I do have a few old pieces over here on this side of the pond, which isn't surprising. But I do have an old Remington model 17 bolt action in 30-06 that was constructed out of a British Enfield WWI receiver. Apparently Remington had left over receivers after the great war and these were sporterized and chambered in 30-06 and sold to the public for a spell. The receiver has military marks on it. These rifles are popular for converting to 300 mag of some sort like say; 300 Weatherby. It shoots like a 22" in 30-06, very calm, no kick. Very solidly built receivers, not unlike the Mausers ...
We got into WWI late and didn't really have a good rifle of or own so we borrowed these from the British and there were also some other stop gap measures taken too, for securing rifles for troops .....
To be fully forthcoming I tend to shoot bows all the time as they are much easier to find a place to shoot for and do require some physicality, or simply they help you keep in shape. especially good for the eyesight it seems. I shot a 20/10 at the last doctor appt. with my correction of course. I just love shooting bows of most sorts, but no compounds, at all ....

 

[Boxed-in]

Pre Dumblane I had a modern classic Ruger Black Powder .44 revolver. Which was a real laugh to use. Massive bang, massive cloud of smoke, massive recoil and semi accurate at maybe 20m.

 

[leadfarmer]

I do have a few old pieces over here on this side of the pond, which isn't surprising. But I do have an old Remington model 17 bolt action in 30-06 that was constructed out of a British Enfield WWI receiver. Apparently Remington had left over receivers after the great war and these were sporterized and chambered in 30-06 and sold to the public for a spell. The receiver has military marks on it. These rifles are popular for converting to 300 mag of some sort like say; 300 Weatherby. It shoots like a 22" in 30-06, very calm, no kick. Very solidly built receivers, not unlike the Mausers ...
We got into WWI late and didn't really have a good rifle of or own so we borrowed these from the British and there were also some other stop gap measures taken too, for securing rifles for troops .....
To be fully forthcoming I tend to shoot bows all the time as they are much easier to find a place to shoot for and do require some physicality, or simply they help you keep in shape. especially good for the eyesight it seems. I shot a 20/10 at the last doctor appt. with my correction of course. I just love shooting bows of most sorts, but no compounds, at all ....

The US17 was basically an Enfield Pattern 1914 rechambered in 30-06 Springfield

The US arms manufacturers had been making the P14 rifles for the British before the US joined the war, so an easy way for them to arm their own troops was this

The mainstay for the US army was of course the Model 1903 Springfield , mainly replaced part way through WWII by the M1 Garand

 

[Larry Langford]

The US17 was basically an Enfield Pattern 1914 rechambered in 30-06 Springfield

The US arms manufacturers had been making the P14 rifles for the British before the US joined the war, so an easy way for them to arm their own troops was this

The mainstay for the US army was of course the Model 1903 Springfield , mainly replaced part way through WWII by the M1 Garand

Do you remember if the Enfield bolt action is a controlled feed design? I can't bring that up it seems. I could check it myself but the last time I cycled some rounds thru a big deer rifle I shot a hole in the floor .... lol. That was with a 1894 saddle ring carbine Winchester 30-30, made in ....drum roll please ... 1896 I believe, but clearly for smokeless powder. It has a five digit serial, which dictates the first year and into the second year of manufacture. A John Browning design again. And shoots as good as ever with a new "old stock" nickel steel barrel on it .....
The caliber or the round is more of a barrel thing than an action thing. As long as the action is in fact long enough, it can be fitted for most things around that size, like say 270 winchester or 303 british, etc. With this sporterized version. the 300 mag of some sort was desirable because the round is bigger in all dimensions then the o6. So the same stock barrel could be used and re-chambered, although it might be smarter nowadays to keep the stock barrel intact and use a SS barrel of some sort for conversion. A very solid rifle indeed. It was given to me by a close family friend of myself and my Grandfather, as he had no children of his own ....

 

[Clifton]

Pre Dumblane I had a modern classic Ruger Black Powder .44 revolver. Which was a real laugh to use. Massive bang, massive cloud of smoke, massive recoil and semi accurate at maybe 20m.

I have a .44 caliber black powder revolver and .45 caliber Hawken muzzle loading rifle. The revolver never was real accurate but the rifle was. I cast my own round balls and what's interesting is the .44 revolver uses .45 balls and the .45 rifle uses .44 balls (to allow for the patch). On the revolver the loading lever forces the larger ball tightly into each cylinder which trims off the slight excess. Even so, to prevent the fired cylinder from igniting the adjacent ones, you smear grease in each cylinder over the ball after loading.
One time many years ago I had forgot to bring my jar of Crisco. I lived in town at the time and rather than drive all the way home I convinced myself that the tight fitting balls would surely seal enough to prevent a spark from igniting an adjacent chamber. Well there was a hell of a bang and kick as 3 chambers went off almost simultaneously, one out the barrel, one out a side chamber, and the 3rd into the loading plunger underneath. Other than a sore hand for a couple days I was unhurt but it sprung the revolver putting it out of time basically ruining it, it's now a paper weight.

 

[leadfarmer]

Do you remember if the Enfield bolt action is a controlled feed design?

Not a clue to be honest, never had a US17 or a P14 in my hands to try

 

[Larry Langford]

Not a clue to be honest, never had a US17 or a P14 in my hands to try

Well I'm guessing somewhat, but the Enfield being based on the Mauser design mostly, is prolly controlled feed. And for those scratching their heads this means that you can cycle the action in any position relative to gravity and the round will always chamber. In an inferior design the round will fall out of the gun when it is cycled upside down, for instance.
The inferior designs persist mainly due to the accountant lobie which has ruined many finely manufactured items over the years. The only flaws to the superior designs like the Mauser and the Enfield are the fact they can't be manufactured cheaply ...
The US 03 had a lot of teething problems. And as was mentioned by leadfarmer, the US was already cranking out 303 Enfields for the British or UK for WWI so they decided to simply change to 30-06 and continue manufacturing the Enfield, for the US army. Proved to be much more sensible as the Enfield was clearly a hit and went on to be used by many armies across the world, over the years. It still used by the Danish Greenland dogsled patrol to this day for it's outstanding reliability and ruggedness in the cold.

 

[Loiq]

Not far from where I live in London, were the old (as in Medieval old) proving grounds for the monarchs’ of the time artillery. The spirit lives on in the name of streets (Artillery Lane, for instance) and in the Honourable Artillery Company, whose HQ is on the same grounds.

Similarly, the London Proof House, is not far away:

View attachment 466011

Dating from 1637, it is still going but the near by bell foundry is gone, sadly. A little bit of London history, lost.

Armoury House | Venue Hire Central London | The HAC

Explore the Armoury House here at The Honourable Artillery Company. The Grade II listed building situated in the heart of the City of London was built in 1735.

hac.org.uk

London Proof House | Home of Gun Proof Since 1637

The London Proof House is the oldest gun proof house in the world, still providing military proof, best gun proof, deactivation and certification services.

www.gunproof.co.uk

The Worshipful Company of Gunmakers, UK Proof House

Discover the history & role of the Worshipful Company of Gunmakers, part of the UK’s gun proving tradition. Learn about its heritage, responsibilities & legacy.

www.gunproof.co.uk

It is strange to think that the first British colony in America was founded only 30 years earlier in 1607.

the barrel abd proof act allowed the king to buy any cannon/ rifle that passed for the crown. They use to do walk arounds in there and the Birmingham proof house really interesting and abit oldy worldy

they don't have the barrel and proof act in the US, which is really strange... but it does mean they can buy all the bits and build a rifle in the shed

we use to buy SMLE's for £30 a go and they'd sell for about £200 for a nice one with mag shut off and HH stamps showing they'd been regulated... now a nice a really nice is north of a grand

 

[leadfarmer]

they don't have the barrel and proof act in the US, which is really strange..

Indeed, my first rifle was a Savage.22LR, American made and then proofed upon import in St Etienne to be able to sell it here (or Liege, can’t remember which)

Still got it

As an aside, my M1 Garand has been proved at 5060 bar, so 73,389 psi, which makes me think that proving weapons before you fire them is a good idea