Free health check warning after service

[Riko]

I have been lurking on this site a while now, I don't post much but enjoy the banter and have benefitted from the vast experience of members so thank you.

However, I would like to hear your views on the following please. I purchased a used 2013 (Reg March 2013) 1200 GS LC in August 2016 3 1/4 years old 17.500 miles with 3 full BMW annual service stamps in the book. The purchase was from non BMW bike garage with a good reputation. Delighted with my new and first GS I made several trips around Europe Scotland Ireland putting approx. another 6000 miles on the bike. The bike was superb in all aspects and quite frankly the best bike I'd ridden by far. So well pleased with my purchase and the bike I decided to take the Bike to BMW Manchester to have its 4th annual service. I knew the front tyre and pads needed replacing but pads I can do myself and tyres I was seeking some best quotes. I just wanted the book stamp and any diagnostics with the BMW tool thingy really. I was then rung by the garage saying the service is complete costing £260 (not bad I thought) however, I was informed that there were numerous causes of concern with the bike and proceeded to tell me about the tyres pads disc etc. which I pretty much new about, but wasn't prepared to pay dealer prices for parts and labour. I was then told about other areas that they were concerned about which was to be honest way above my technical understanding, such as 'End cam float' ' Input shaft bearings' Drive shaft knocking. I said well the Bike was fine to me and asked for more basic layman's terms to be used. From what I could gather he just wanted a further £800 on top of the service charge of £260! for what amounted to checking to see if the above was faulty or not!. My response was 'have you done the service' answer 'Yes' then don't do any further I will collect in an hour or so.

Upon arrival I was presented with the 'Free' Health check detailing the parts that required replacing and the further prices for what amounted to exploratory work only. If the work did require doing it would be in the region of a further £3k !! (I hope this has attached correctly) I asked 'How do you know this work only MAY require doing'. You've only taken it from the car park to the garage about 15 yards! And I haven't felt anything wrong with the bike. The response was pretty much because we know these models fail in those areas.

My question to esteemed members of this forum is this a typical dealer scam knowing the bike was out of warranty or legitimate claim to have the bike further inspected at considerable cost to myself. I have attached a copy of the Free health check, not sure if its attached to the post

Since that date I have replaced the tyres and rear disc elsewhere and replaced the pads myself pads. took the chance and rode it for a further 2000 miles with no issues but then pxd it for another within the motor industry.

 

[Blackal]

On the face of it - they would appear to be a bit "adventurous" in eliciting work.

That would put me off an individual dealer for ever...................

 

[Andi_archer]

Since that date I have replaced the tyres and rear disc elsewhere and replaced the pads myself pad

So you completed these as advised I see no issue with them being on the note as they are beyond recommended safe limits so it would be remiss of them not to let you know. The other issues were totally ignored by yourself which is your option but I still dont see what your vexed about as each item listed is for your regard to long term maintenance whomever does the work.If you bike had ceased up or failed to stop due to disc wear during this period you owned it would you still have the same opinion ?

It not necessary to ride a bike to check bearing wear if access can be got to it easily i.e. wheel or drive bearings etc if there is excess lateral movement then its a clear sign of wear and the mechanic can only highlight the issue to the owner.There is no psychic guesstimate to how far it can be ridden before collapse it could be thousands of miles or it could just as well be hundreds.

As for the service at that price it sounds like Oil and filter ,brake flush and possible new fork oil your receipt will highlight the exact work completed

 

[Nice 'n' Fat]

Health Check you say ?

Did they ask you to sign a disclaimer when you took the bike away after the service ?

I think the fact that you were able to ride a further 2000 trouble free miles (on a bike that a dealer has advised should not be ridden) says a lot

 

[Andi_archer]

The advice is a catch all as the wear could be anything from minimal to a major failure, its just a tick box with lawyer speak attached.

 

[Riko]

Andi, not particularly vexed as such and I'm simply asking the question; was is it some sort of scam to elicit further work at my expense or genuine advice albeit also at my expense. I just felt that it was testing me out to see whether I was prepared to pay the initial fee for the exploratory work ( i.e. new gullible customer) for it only to be confirmed to which would cost me a further £3k and probably more! as now out of warranty. I did wonder if I would have had the same result if in warranty. I asked others (not professional mechanics) if they felt any movement in clutch or knocking from the final drive to which none did. TBH I don't know hence asking the question, it just seemed a lot to be/go wrong for a relatively low mileage bike. Or is it a case of welcome to BMW?

 

[Andi_archer]

Yes and No they are a buisness after all, they seem perform an overall good health check which provides a non invasive overview of what the mechanic thinks needs looking at.Some is urgent some not so and the tick sheet is just that a box which covers bikes in many states of disrepair.Had they been careless is their inspection you could be well within your rights in case of a breakdown/RTC to complain they hadnt warned you i.e. your brake disks.I just boooked mine in for a service today for next week and the maintenece department reminded me at the fork crimp install two weeks ago the rear brake pads were at 25% asking if I wanted these done too.So in a way its a way of bringing in extra buisness but the customer as per yourself is free to act upon [or not] the report.

Where I work the various machine OEM manufacturers have a detailed recommended maintenance list and will remind my employer of those that are due, many times only around 50- 75% of the advised work list would be performed.Their level of breakdowns has decreased since the options to perform more maintenence tasks has increased, so short term gains for long term losses are on the decline in managing the equipment.

 

[restandplay]

Hi

I found my low mileage F800GS to be very costly to keep putting things right that should have never gone wrong. In the end I got rid of it and bought a Triumph so far so good. It certainly is both smother and quicker.

Derek

 

[Riko]

Fair enough. I suppose it all depends on ones level of cynicism. Mine was raised as the response to my questions were 'we know these models fail in these areas' as opposed to anything more evidential. Perhaps the service advisors communication skills have a little room for improvement.

nice n fat, yes I do seem to remember signing something on disclaimer lines. tbh difficult to remember after receiving a virtual kick in the gonads, which was potentially going to cost me in the region of £4k. I got the usual mixed bikers advice.. 'Get rid sharpish'... 'Serves you right for getting a GS'... 'Nowt wrong with it, its all bollox' 'Just ride it till it stops'

 

[Blackal]

I get a “health check” from the BMW Motorrad dealer and my local Nissan dealer.

Neither of them include any recommendation for getting work done, but I do recognise it as being a possible suggestion to further work.

But - the Nissan dealer, when talking to them about service, repair and MOT work - never mentioned the “health check” from 5 months previous.

When they try to punt the work with “this quite often goes wrong - we’d recommend an (at cost) investigation” - that’s the day I walk away.

 

[fredaroony]

Hi

I found my low mileage F800GS to be very costly to keep putting things right that should have never gone wrong. In the end I got rid of it and bought a Triumph so far so good. It certainly is both smother and quicker.

Derek

Cool story mate

 

[wessie]

It's all about risk. If you had a business using a machine you will change bearings on a preventative maintenance schedule as a breakdown will cost you £'000s in lost production. You factor the downtime into your production runs or get it done at night or weekends. You will base this on experience of past breakdowns and see the cost as worthwhile insurance against a catastrophic failure. BMW will have the same data on limited life components for their bikes and the computer will tell the technician if your bike is at risk. Now, as a leisure rider, if you are anything like me, your risk perception may be very different to someone reliant on their bike for business use. I will push the envelope on bearing life and only tend to replace them when there are obvious symptoms. I bet police & ambulance workshops follow BMW's guidance on bearing replacement for their fleets of R1200RTs as they cannot afford to have a bike breakdown "on the job".

 

[Deleted account 200417001]

I love the you have to sign a waiver to have your bike back!!!

Do you bollocks they have no legal right to keep it, with or without signature

 

[Blackal]

It's all about risk. If you had a business using a machine you will change bearings on a preventative maintenance schedule as a breakdown will cost you £'000s in lost production. You factor the downtime into your production runs or get it done at night or weekends. You will base this on experience of past breakdowns and see the cost as worthwhile insurance against a catastrophic failure. BMW will have the same data on limited life components for their bikes and the computer will tell the technician if your bike is at risk. Now, as a leisure rider, if you are anything like me, your risk perception may be very different to someone reliant on their bike for business use. I will push the envelope on bearing life and only tend to replace them when there are obvious symptoms. I bet police & ambulance workshops follow BMW's guidance on bearing replacement for their fleets of R1200RTs as they cannot afford to have a bike breakdown "on the job".

The maker’s service schedule is designed to catch all faults before they actually fail (apart from electrical items which follow a different schedule). Some items don’t actually warrant that exacting period, but they include it for two reasons:

1). It pads out the service invoice, that they have checked it
2). For all the time it actually takes - why wouldn’t they check it?

Your assessment of “risk” in relation to servicing is actually heading towards “Reliability-Centred-Maintenance” where service schedules on individual ‘items’ is either relaxed or tightened - based upon an assessment of “well - so what if that drive-belt fails?” Kind of scenario. How debilitating is the result of that failure? Is it actually worth changing the belt at the service interval?

RCM has for some time - been recognised as a valid regime in industry, where failures and loss of production are underwritten for the operating company - so why shouldn’t you practice that for yourself?

BMW and the dealers stick to a Planned Maintenance System, as it simplifies things and makes them money.

 

[mrtee43]

I wonder if they would have done this work if the bike had a current warranty and would BMW have sanctioned it ?

 

[Kenny Rodkiss]

I would be a bit more concerned with the wear on the r/h cam chain being caused by the input shaft bearing failing. Not something to ignore as it certainly wont get better on its own.

 

[Nice 'n' Fat]

I love the you have to sign a waiver to have your bike back!!!

Do you bollocks they have no legal right to keep it, with or without signature

They are not stopping you from taking it. You sign the waiver to exonerate the dealer from being sued in the event of you having an accident and then claiming that the dealer didn't tell you your bike had issues

 

[Tractors are go]

They are not stopping you from taking it. You sign the waiver to exonerate the dealer from being sued in the event of you having an accident and then claiming that the dealer didn't tell you your bike had issues

I took my cousin to a main dealer in Glasgow to pick up her bike, when a lot of issue's were advised to her, and demands to sign paperwork so she could get her bike back.

She suggested it was irrelevant as the duty of care came from them as professionals and not from her a mere customer.

The comment of what are you some kind of bloody lawyer, her retort, no darling I became a QC four months ago, does that count instead ?

The difficulty any dealer has, is working out the level of customer competence and ability to fix any problems. Then there is the how much is your time v money worth conundrum.

Some dealers are excellent at explaining "possible" areas that require attention and why, others hand you a sheet and the last lot just try and fuck you over.

Sent from my SM-N910F using Tapatalk

 

[Nice 'n' Fat]

The difficulty any dealer has, is working out the level of customer competence and ability to fix any problems. Then there is the how much is your time v money worth conundrum.

Some dealers are excellent at explaining "possible" areas that require attention and why, others hand you a sheet and the last lot just try and fuck you over.

Sent from my SM-N910F using Tapatalk

Agreed, and is the reason why so many dealers now do a video for the customers information

 

[Tractors are go]

Agreed, and is the reason why so many dealers now do a video for the customers information

The most important thing is; if you are unsure or don't understand what they are saying/suggesting/recommended, ask until you do.

You are paying your hard earned money, get value for it, but don't take the piss either.

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