Garmin 2610 on The Bay
- Thread starter (RIP) Geriatric Germ
- Start date
Jacal
Guest
WOW have ya seen the P&P on it.....You can nearly buy a GPS for that! 
This does appear to be a European basemap unit - certainly the box and CD pack are European (except that City Navigator is v5).
Apart from the stupid p&p price, it's probably not a bad buy at £645.
Greg
Apart from the stupid p&p price, it's probably not a bad buy at £645.
Greg
PanEuropean
Registered user
Guys, just a 'heads up':
Garmin does not support GPSR's purchased through on-line auctions. What I mean by this is that they will not recognize the on-line auction receipt for the purpose of giving you an upgrade to the latest version of the cartography CD at the time of your purchase.
Also, I know from participating in other forums that there have been a LOT of games played by people who sell GPSR's through auctions - they buy the GPSR, get a second unlock code for something else, then sell the GPSR through the auction. Down the road, the guy who bought it through the auction wants to buy an update to version 7 of the cartography, and contacts Garmin - only to find out that the original owner of the GPSR has already bought the update (at the discounted update price) for the GPSR they registered the second unlock code for. At that point, it is obvious that there are two different owners, so Garmin won't provide a second unlock code free - and the person who bought through auction now has to pay full price (which is hellacious) for their map upgrade.
So - buyer beware on these internet auctions. Internet VENDORS seem to be OK, although prospective purchasers would be well advised to check on Garmin's site and see if the internet vendor is registered as an approved dealer. But internet AUCTIONS are very much a 'take no prisoners, give no quarter' environment for the buyers. Lots and lots of people have been screwed badly, this I know from other forums that I participate in.
PanEuropean
Garmin does not support GPSR's purchased through on-line auctions. What I mean by this is that they will not recognize the on-line auction receipt for the purpose of giving you an upgrade to the latest version of the cartography CD at the time of your purchase.
Also, I know from participating in other forums that there have been a LOT of games played by people who sell GPSR's through auctions - they buy the GPSR, get a second unlock code for something else, then sell the GPSR through the auction. Down the road, the guy who bought it through the auction wants to buy an update to version 7 of the cartography, and contacts Garmin - only to find out that the original owner of the GPSR has already bought the update (at the discounted update price) for the GPSR they registered the second unlock code for. At that point, it is obvious that there are two different owners, so Garmin won't provide a second unlock code free - and the person who bought through auction now has to pay full price (which is hellacious) for their map upgrade.
So - buyer beware on these internet auctions. Internet VENDORS seem to be OK, although prospective purchasers would be well advised to check on Garmin's site and see if the internet vendor is registered as an approved dealer. But internet AUCTIONS are very much a 'take no prisoners, give no quarter' environment for the buyers. Lots and lots of people have been screwed badly, this I know from other forums that I participate in.
PanEuropean
Jacal
Guest
Sound advice, PanEuropean.
BUYER BEWARE!
BUYER BEWARE!
AdamZ
Guest
Pan, very sound advice.
There are several points associated with this.
Firstly Garmin does not have to give an upgrade at a discounted price under the terms of their license. Garmin provides this discounted upgrade as a service which it is not obliged to do. For that full credit to Garmin.
The second point regards the restriction of unlock codes. Until someone takes action against Garmin over this restriction and ensures that they comply with their own license agreement then all buyers of Garmin Cartography software are restricted. Theoretically, provided the buyer and sellers comply with the license agreement which requires removal of code from any sellers equipment Garmin should provide an unlocks on transfer of ownership. However, Garmin may not do this therefore any purchaser should be cautious.
The third point regards "approved dealership". This could be classed as a restraint of trade and may not satisfy the necessary "brand protection" criterea. Failure to support a warranty under such circumstance could leave Garmin liable.
The fourth point is that these are legal issues and if any purchaser wishes to challenge Garmin in these areas they would need the "muscle" i.e "cash" to do so. Though there might be a supportable claim in the UK under the Small Claims legislation. So unless you want a fight which might take time and money then be careful.
Finally, whilst auctions are perfectly acceptable transaction mechanisms and do not, within the UK, remove buyer and seller responsibilities it must be remembered that legally ebay is not an Auction House. It is an "Introducing Service" and does not have any of the associated legal obligations of Auction Houses under UK legislation. The contract is between the buyer and seller and not with ebay. In a normal auction the contract would be with the Auction House. ebay does provide limited protection (upto £250 in some cases). So if the deal goes pear shaped then your claim against the seller, especially with a US based supplier, would be extremely fragile.
There are several points associated with this.
Firstly Garmin does not have to give an upgrade at a discounted price under the terms of their license. Garmin provides this discounted upgrade as a service which it is not obliged to do. For that full credit to Garmin.
The second point regards the restriction of unlock codes. Until someone takes action against Garmin over this restriction and ensures that they comply with their own license agreement then all buyers of Garmin Cartography software are restricted. Theoretically, provided the buyer and sellers comply with the license agreement which requires removal of code from any sellers equipment Garmin should provide an unlocks on transfer of ownership. However, Garmin may not do this therefore any purchaser should be cautious.
The third point regards "approved dealership". This could be classed as a restraint of trade and may not satisfy the necessary "brand protection" criterea. Failure to support a warranty under such circumstance could leave Garmin liable.
The fourth point is that these are legal issues and if any purchaser wishes to challenge Garmin in these areas they would need the "muscle" i.e "cash" to do so. Though there might be a supportable claim in the UK under the Small Claims legislation. So unless you want a fight which might take time and money then be careful.
Finally, whilst auctions are perfectly acceptable transaction mechanisms and do not, within the UK, remove buyer and seller responsibilities it must be remembered that legally ebay is not an Auction House. It is an "Introducing Service" and does not have any of the associated legal obligations of Auction Houses under UK legislation. The contract is between the buyer and seller and not with ebay. In a normal auction the contract would be with the Auction House. ebay does provide limited protection (upto £250 in some cases). So if the deal goes pear shaped then your claim against the seller, especially with a US based supplier, would be extremely fragile.
roadrider
Registered user
!!!!Eeehh!!!
PanEuropean
Registered user
Hi Adam:
I'm not entirely sure what context your comments above are made in - I think you are pretty correct in what you say, there are just a few additions (not disagreements) that I would add:
your point 1) - agreed.
your point 2) - not sure what you mean here. If A sells a GPSR to B, then obviously A needs to provide B with the unlock codes for that GPSR, otherwise, B can't use MapSource to download map segments to the GPSR. I don't understand how Garmin would come into this picture at all.
your point 3) - Garmin is not saying that GPSR's need to be purchased from an approved dealership. They are taking the opposite tack entirely and saying that they will not provide free cartography upgrades for 'new' GPSR's purchased through auctions. In other words, rather than the restriction being 'restrictive' (approved dealerships only), it is 'specifically exclusive' (not auctions).
your point 4) - I don't know what issues you would want to challenge them on. Sincerely, I don't understand what you are getting at here. Could you make your concern more clear?
PanEuropean
I'm not entirely sure what context your comments above are made in - I think you are pretty correct in what you say, there are just a few additions (not disagreements) that I would add:
your point 1) - agreed.
your point 2) - not sure what you mean here. If A sells a GPSR to B, then obviously A needs to provide B with the unlock codes for that GPSR, otherwise, B can't use MapSource to download map segments to the GPSR. I don't understand how Garmin would come into this picture at all.
your point 3) - Garmin is not saying that GPSR's need to be purchased from an approved dealership. They are taking the opposite tack entirely and saying that they will not provide free cartography upgrades for 'new' GPSR's purchased through auctions. In other words, rather than the restriction being 'restrictive' (approved dealerships only), it is 'specifically exclusive' (not auctions).
your point 4) - I don't know what issues you would want to challenge them on. Sincerely, I don't understand what you are getting at here. Could you make your concern more clear?
PanEuropean
Picking up on point 2 above, I think that Garmin could make it easier to record the transfer of ownership.
I recently sold my old SPIII and I wanted to make sure that the new owner could not only unlock this unit (I passed him the unlock codes) but also be able to use the mapping data on any other Garmin unit he has (now or in the future). To do this he'd have to be the registered owner of both unit.
The only way to do this is to change the Garmin customer database. I could only achive this with phone calls and e-mails. It'd be nice to be able to do this on-line.
Greg
I recently sold my old SPIII and I wanted to make sure that the new owner could not only unlock this unit (I passed him the unlock codes) but also be able to use the mapping data on any other Garmin unit he has (now or in the future). To do this he'd have to be the registered owner of both unit.
The only way to do this is to change the Garmin customer database. I could only achive this with phone calls and e-mails. It'd be nice to be able to do this on-line.
Greg
AdamZ
Guest
Pan,
My issue is not with Garmin providing reduced price or free upgrades. There is nothing in their warranty or license agreement that obliges Garmin to do that.
Garmin's license for use of the cartography software and data is currently a transferrable license. However Garmin does not seem to provide support for that transfer. In that, I believe that Garmin are not compliant with their own license terms and this can make ownership transfer difficult.
It does not matter whether the unit and/or software was bought from an "authorised dealer" or from a non authorised retailer or from an auction (not sure that Costco is an authorised dealer as they are not in the Garmin dealer list for the US or UK).
Provided that the seller has complied with the terms of the license (in the main, deletion of the software) then all associated rights under the license are transferrable.
What you are now indicating is that Garmin are taking a different approach and saying that unless purchased from an Authorised Dealer then they will not provide the "additional services" that have, in the past, associated with a "new" purchase.
Your points regarding the second unlock code and previously obtaining the "upgrade" are very valid concerns. Regardless of the source of purchase (dealer, retailer or auction house) you need to ensure that the seller has complied with the license terms. You are more likely to be defrauded if you do not know or trust the vendor. If they indicate that they have already registered the device with Garmin then you need to be extremely careful.
The item in the current ebay auction is at £730, has been loaded onto a PC, been transferred to a data card, is being sold by someone who has not sold any electrical goods before and is a 5 day auction. I, personally, would stay away from this given the difficulties in ownership transfer and lack of buyer protection with ebay.
My issue is not with Garmin providing reduced price or free upgrades. There is nothing in their warranty or license agreement that obliges Garmin to do that.
Garmin's license for use of the cartography software and data is currently a transferrable license. However Garmin does not seem to provide support for that transfer. In that, I believe that Garmin are not compliant with their own license terms and this can make ownership transfer difficult.
It does not matter whether the unit and/or software was bought from an "authorised dealer" or from a non authorised retailer or from an auction (not sure that Costco is an authorised dealer as they are not in the Garmin dealer list for the US or UK).
Provided that the seller has complied with the terms of the license (in the main, deletion of the software) then all associated rights under the license are transferrable.
What you are now indicating is that Garmin are taking a different approach and saying that unless purchased from an Authorised Dealer then they will not provide the "additional services" that have, in the past, associated with a "new" purchase.
Your points regarding the second unlock code and previously obtaining the "upgrade" are very valid concerns. Regardless of the source of purchase (dealer, retailer or auction house) you need to ensure that the seller has complied with the license terms. You are more likely to be defrauded if you do not know or trust the vendor. If they indicate that they have already registered the device with Garmin then you need to be extremely careful.
The item in the current ebay auction is at £730, has been loaded onto a PC, been transferred to a data card, is being sold by someone who has not sold any electrical goods before and is a 5 day auction. I, personally, would stay away from this given the difficulties in ownership transfer and lack of buyer protection with ebay.
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