German Burial Grounds.

[Aurelius]

Didn't Churchill admit to having the best nights sleep he had had in months or years, the day that America joined the War? Probably tells us a lot about the way the war was going at the time.

Upon hearing news of the attack on Pearl Harbor, Churchill is alleged to have said: "Being saturated and satiated with emotion and sensation, I went to bed and slept the sleep of the saved and thankful."

Oddly enough, this quote has given conspiracy kooks reason to believe that Churchill had full knowledge of the impending Japanese attack, but gave us no warning so that the US would be forced into the war.

 

[Mick O'Malley]

Who Did The Winning

Lots of interesting opinions above.

There quite a bit of pro Nazi sentiment in the USA in the 30s & 40s and I'm sure a German Empire would have suited many there, and here. IMHO, what decided intervention in the ETO was the threat of a Red Empire stretching to the channel. Although Russia was decidedly on the back foot at the time of Pearl Harbor, a quick check of the history book would have revealed the most likely outcome.

Five minutes spent researching how many divisions the Wehrmacht deployed on each of the three fronts (if you count North Africa), and the respective numbers of casualties suffered, will reveal which of the allies really did the winning.

This is not to denigrate the contribution made by allied forces on the western front.

Mick

p.s. There's a beautifully kept and very moving German WW1 cemetary at Fricourt, in the Somme region. Each known grave has a metal cross with a name cast or engraved on each side. Of the 17,000 buried there, 11,000 are unknowns in a mass grave.

 

[Aurelius]

Re: Who Did The Winning

Lots of interesting opinions above.

There quite a bit of pro Nazi sentiment in the USA in the 30s & 40s and I'm sure a German Empire would have suited many there, and here. IMHO, what decided intervention in the ETO was the threat of a Red Empire stretching to the channel. Although Russia was decidedly on the back foot at the time of Pearl Harbor, a quick check of the history book would have revealed the most likely outcome.

I'm not sure what you're getting at Mick, but the US only formally entered the war at the close of 1941. At that time, the Russians were loosing badly, and it looked as if a German victory on the Eastern front was innevitable. Given that Russia was then a very weak nation with a third rate military, I find it extremely unlikely that any of the Western powers would have envisioned it as a threat to Europe. The fact that we supplied Russia with arms only underscores that fact that the real threat in our view was Germany.

 

[Bødkerman]

Germany declared war on USA 11 Dec 1941. If Congress had wanted to stay out of the war (which they probably did) they would have had a hard time convincing people in US after the German declaration.

 

[Merlin999]

Did Russia pay for her arms?

I doubt it!

We are still paying aren't we? The money was invested in Germany and Japan. Lots of business in Japan is still owned by the US.

"Special Relationship" my ars*...!

The American government and the big business which really runs the show, has always presented, "apple pie" whil'st it got on with the real business at hand.

Both World Wars were smart "business" for Uncle Sam.

 

[Mick O'Malley]

Re: Re: Who Did The Winning

I'm not sure what you're getting at Mick........and it looked as if a German victory on the Eastern front was inevitable.

As I said, "a quick check of the history book would have revealed the most likely outcome." Surely you know to what I am alluding?

The fact that we supplied Russia with arms only underscores that fact that

we like exercising control through business. Germany didn't represent a military threat to the USA, they probably only declared war to demonstrate solidarity with Japan. I don't imagine the boys on the hill gave a toss who won, as long as they made money out of it. Altruism, USA, surely some mistake?

 

[Aurelius]

Re: Re: Re: Who Did The Winning

As I said, "a quick check of the history book would have revealed the most likely outcome." Surely you know to what I am alluding?

You mean we're supposed to conclude that a modern mechanized army couldn't succeed because an 18th century army failed?

we like exercising control through business. Germany didn't represent a military threat to the USA, they probably only declared war to demonstrate solidarity with Japan. I don't imagine the boys on the hill gave a toss who won, as long as they made money out of it. Altruism, USA, surely some mistake?

Its good to know that your judgement is informed by objective historical fact, and not personal bias and conspiracy theories.

 

[Merlin999]

Where can we get access to Uncle Sam's accounts for World Wars(U.S. of A) Inc.

I would just love to see the bottom line.

No tax right offs/offsets for Nam, either!

 

[Aurelius]

Re: Where can we get access to Uncle Sam's accounts for World Wars(U.S. of A) Inc.

I would just love to see the bottom line.

No tax right offs/offsets for Nam, either!

But why allow the facts to detain you? Why not just declare that the sole motivation for all the actions of the US government is avarice, and then invent whatever facts you require to support that belief?

 

[Taff]

Germany declared war on USA 11 Dec 1941.

By this stage Robs original thread has been totally hijacked / diverted so I don't feel guilty about asking a question. Why would Germany want to declare war on the US ? Sorry if this is a stupid question, but we just didn't do WW2 in depth at school.

 

[Merlin999]

Just cos they were there, I suppose. Oh! also they were retailing to the other side.

I can not quite understand why, The P.I.R.A. get their funding from the USA for decades.

Irish Terrorists wreak havoc in the UK with the dollars collected by NORAID.

The USA, does and says naff all!

That'll be the "Special Relationship"

Apparently, it was mostly our own fault. Colonial payback.

As soon terrorism stikes in the US. It becomes a top priority.
America declares all countries supporting/harbouring terrorists "evil".

Bombs some of them and goes to war.....?

Should we have been bombing the US and others in the 70's?

 

[Deleted account rno]

Re: Just cos they were there, I suppose. Oh! also they were retailing to the other side.

I can not quite understand why, The P.I.R.A. get their funding from the USA for decades.

Irish Terrorists wreak havoc in the UK with the dollars collected by NORAID.

The USA, does and says naff all!

That'll be the "Special Relationship"

Apparently, it was mostly our own fault. Colonial payback.

As soon terrorism stikes in the US. It becomes a top priority.
America declares all countries supporting/harbouring terrorists "evil".

Bombs some of them and goes to war.....?

Should we have been bombing the US and others in the 70's?

Good points

 

[Aurelius]

By this stage Robs original thread has been totally hijacked / diverted so I don't feel guilty about asking a question. Why would Germany want to declare war on the US ? Sorry if this is a stupid question, but we just didn't do WW2 in depth at school.

The most detailed account of Hitler’s planned conduct of the war that I’ve read is William Shirer’s “Rise and Fall of the Third Reich”. In a nutshell, Hitler and his general staff knew full well that the US would eventually join the conflict, but wanted to delay the inevitable until either Russia or Britain had capitulated. Hitler’s plan was to persuade Japan to declare war on the Soviet Union, thereby forcing the Soviets to split their defensive resources, thus accelerating Germany’s advance on the Eastern front. Japan however, remained non-committal about their plans, and so it came as a shock to Germany when news arrived of the attack on Pearl Harbor. Germany’s subsequent declaration of war on the US was a mere formality, because it was clear to all parties that a war with Japan would necessarily be a war with its partners, Germany and Italy.

 

[Aurelius]

Re: Just cos they were there, I suppose. Oh! also they were retailing to the other side.

I can not quite understand why, The P.I.R.A. get their funding from the USA for decades.

There's a simple reason why you can't quite understand it: because it isn't true. The IRA never received funding from "the USA"; it received funding from some deeply confused Irish Americans who cannot see the IRA for the murderous scum they are. Your claim is as nonsensical as saying that Hamas received funding from the USA, on the basis that some deluded Arab Americans no doubt send them money.

 

[Merlin999]

Re: Re: Just cos they were there, I suppose. Oh! also they were retailing to the other side.

There's a simple reason why you can't quite understand it: because it isn't true. The IRA never received funding from "the USA"; it received funding from some deeply confused Irish Americans who cannot see the IRA for the murderous scum they are. Your claim is as nonsensical as saying that Hamas received funding from the USA, on the basis that some deluded Arab Americans no doubt send them money.

Funding flowed from the USA, the result was thousands of decent folk had their lives taken and thousands more their lives shattered.

The UK economy has been labouring under the sorry mess for decades. Do you really think I meant the US government funded NORAID?

No, you are deflecting.


I do not codone any of the barbarism, whichever the pattern on the flag.The Republic nearly had kittens at the prospect of unification a few years ago. Bombs might have been going off in Dublin? The same foul mess.



My point is, double standards. I don't eat Mc Donalds.

 

[Aurelius]

Re: Re: Re: Just cos they were there, I suppose. Oh! also they were retailing to the other side.

Funding flowed from the USA, the result was thousands of decent folk had their lives taken and thousands more their lives shattered.

The UK economy has been labouring under the sorry mess for decades. Do you really think I meant the US government funded NORAID?

Then why not be clear about it instead using language so expansive as to tar the entire USA as supporters of terrorism?

My point is, double standards.

What double standards? Show me anyone besides a few braindead Irishmen in this country who don't condemn the IRA.

I don't eat Mc Donalds.

Good for you. No doubt they're an IRA front.

 

[Merlin999]

What! Do you mean you do not know? NORAID..!

Please, someone pass me the net and disgorger...!

Fish for tea...!



















Sorry! My mistake, a spent fish foul hooked.

Best we have egg & chips.


You had enough? Or are you hungry for more?

 

[Mick O'Malley]

You mean we're supposed to conclude that a modern mechanized army couldn't succeed because an 18th century army failed?

Absolutely, mother winter did for them both. Furthermore, all Russia's key armaments factories had been dismantled and moved east of the urals, Germany possessed no strategic bombing force so the outcome was never in serious doubt.

Its good to know that your judgement is informed by objective historical fact, and not personal bias and conspiracy theories.

Or blind patriotism.