NorthernBoy
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Pressurized said:
I tried the 950 before I bought the GS. The brakes were bad enough to put me off.
Now, I might consider getting one and replacing the brakes.
I tried the 950 before I bought the GS. The brakes were bad enough to put me off.
Now, I might consider getting one and replacing the brakes.
Pressurized said:
So, according to the first link, dropping a horizontally opposed bike onto an unprotected cylinder head can cause issues.
And, according to the second link, the standard crash protection on the Adventure prevents damage to the rest of the bike by absorbing all the impact itself.
You don't buy a roadgoing supersports bike and put it on a race track without preparing it first. Neither do you buy a big road-going trail bike and throw it at the rough stuff without doing likewise. As for me, I'll keep using the bike for what I bought and prepared it for without whinging that it doesn't make ice-cream without an aftermarket accessory.
guffter6969
Guest
Oops, I seem to have opened a right old can of worms with my opening statement, it's nice to see that not all of the users of this forum are as totally blinkered to the bikes faults as others!!!
guffter6969 said:
Guffter, there are plenty of us who have had no issues with our bikes, regardless of what we've done on them. There are polls that clearly indicate that the majority of 1200 owners have no issues, and that the majority of owners would buy another one. No-one will deny that there are some bikes with issues, but the whole "my 1200 is a crock and you'd never see it on a Jap bike" is just such a load of BS. This is the GS forum, where you'll hear all the GS issues. If you go to an equivilent forum for any other bike, you'll find the same thing..... a minority of owners shouting long and hard about how bad their bike is, and the silent majority getting fed up with it.
My bike is fine. I know personally of no-one who's had serious issues with their bike. I read all the same issues on forums all over the net about other bikes. I'm truly sorry that you got a lemon, but if you're that really unhappy please go away and let those of us who are happy enjoy our bikes without being mis-labeled as blinkered, stupid, and gullible. We're not, we just don't have issues with our bikes, and we don't see the need to invent potential issues to complain about or assume that our bikes are going to suddenly disintegrate beneath us.
+1
I think that sums it up quite nicely
Pressurized
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Not totally unprotected, actually, it had the plastic protectors which did a perfect job and the pannier too took a blow but came up virtually unharmed. Everyone was impressed until the rider reported that the bike wouldn't pick up smoothly on the throttle.Wizard said:
Given your comments, you don't seem to expect the bike to fare well either but consider this: it was a zero-speed spill, the sort that can happen to any of us at any time and the bike truly isn't up to it. A Pan on the trip was dropped at about 5mph on a hairpin and, after five people picked it up, it ran perfectly, as you would expect.
True but it'll do this only once per side as you infer. How many times are you going to let the bike tumble when you take it round the world?Wizard said:
Again, you're right but isn't the R1200 GSA supposed to come pre-prepared for the rough stuff? My dealer certainly claims that. And you can put decent bars on it that will prevent it being disabled from suppliers other than BMW. I think your eyes are already open, Wizard, you know that the GS's image is about marketing and that, to do the other things you do needs a bit more preparation.Wizard said:You don't buy a roadgoing supersports bike and put it on a race track without preparing it first. Neither do you buy a big road-going trail bike and throw it at the rough stuff without doing likewise. As for me, I'll keep using the bike for what I bought and prepared it for without whinging that it doesn't make ice-cream without an aftermarket accessory.
great bike - but?
Havent got any buts. Its a great bike..........full stop.
Maybe because I started motoring with the products of the 60's (yes I am
) I expect some repair / reliability issues from such a complex piece of machinery. In practise I have had one (oil leak between engine and box) in the 2 years I've had the bike and that was promptly dealt with by the dealer. Not an issue to my mind.
Seems to me that many younger riders have totally unrealistic expectations about reliability, often the result of not having a clue about the mechanics of the bike. The dealer does the servicing and repair - the customer doesnt know his layshaft from his camshaft. Not unsurprisingly, the customer gets baffled by bullshit and conned by service staff and frightened to death by stories of minor problems that he doesnt understand..
Thats not to pretend that BMW have covered themselves with glory in the way that they have developed the 1200GS - test riding courtesy of the customer in the best traditions of British manufacturing. Wonder if they have developed "accountant disease" as many Brit companies have done? *
In the end, you pay your money and make your choice. If you want the nearest thing to complete reliability you have to buy something conventional from the Japs like a Pan. If you want something different with a bit more character but less reliability, then get a 1200GS. But for the moment at least you cant have both.
* As a complete aside, I once wrote to the Chairman of a self proclaimed "major Brit engineering company" to ask how he could run such a company with a board of accountants and lawyers and not a single engineer. His answer was that the accountants had "picked up all the engineering they needed during their careers"
Havent got any buts. Its a great bike..........full stop.
Maybe because I started motoring with the products of the 60's (yes I am
) I expect some repair / reliability issues from such a complex piece of machinery. In practise I have had one (oil leak between engine and box) in the 2 years I've had the bike and that was promptly dealt with by the dealer. Not an issue to my mind.Seems to me that many younger riders have totally unrealistic expectations about reliability, often the result of not having a clue about the mechanics of the bike. The dealer does the servicing and repair - the customer doesnt know his layshaft from his camshaft. Not unsurprisingly, the customer gets baffled by bullshit and conned by service staff and frightened to death by stories of minor problems that he doesnt understand..
Thats not to pretend that BMW have covered themselves with glory in the way that they have developed the 1200GS - test riding courtesy of the customer in the best traditions of British manufacturing. Wonder if they have developed "accountant disease" as many Brit companies have done? *
In the end, you pay your money and make your choice. If you want the nearest thing to complete reliability you have to buy something conventional from the Japs like a Pan. If you want something different with a bit more character but less reliability, then get a 1200GS. But for the moment at least you cant have both.
* As a complete aside, I once wrote to the Chairman of a self proclaimed "major Brit engineering company" to ask how he could run such a company with a board of accountants and lawyers and not a single engineer. His answer was that the accountants had "picked up all the engineering they needed during their careers"
Pressurized
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Ah, the voice of reason. Yup, polls tell everything, don't they? George Bush vs Al Gore, 1999, anyone - and look where that got us. Bit political, there, sorry.Wizard said:
Granted, perhaps the majority would buy another one, as did I when I went from the 1100 to the 1200 but I'd like to have the option not to! I'd like to think my 1200 would break (no pun intended) through 100k miles as effortlessly as my 1100 did but it has, to be quite honest, had more problems (let's call them 'niggles') in 16k miles than my 1100 has had in 102k.
You are missing my point, the GS is brilliant to ride (read my post) and Jap bikes have problems too but BMW market and sell the Bike as something that it isn't. It certainly isn't a crock but it isn't the iron-clad long-term ownership proposition and globe conquering beast it's sold as.Wizard said:
Far from it, by the end of the day I fully expect your 'silent minority' to have done the forum equivalent of crossing my moat with pitchforks and torches. People who speak up here are often soundly dealt with and that's fine, the more opinions the better, generally. (Hell, I've even been a part of the mob myself from time-to-time.)Wizard said:
I could get statistical on you from my experience of people with 1200GSs. The summary is that most have problems, most aren't serious and all love their bikes. So do I but, sorry, though brilliant, it's not brilliant enough to escape criticism and, without criticism (let's call it feedback), BMW won't be motivated to improve it (which they do).Wizard said:
Never said it was a lemon, I think it's actually a fairly typical 54 bike.Wizard said:
Well, while I haven't called anyone 'blinkered, stupid or gullible' - and my experience of this forum is that most here definitely are not - I have said that I'm going to be trying out another bike so I may end up going away but this remains a terrific forum that I benefit from and hope to continue to do so. Mind you, I am a fully paid up member of the GS owner's club two times over and the entrance fee to that particular club is high. I'm also a site sponsor. These facts enable me, I hope, to have my say from time-to-time.Wizard said:
I hope the only 'issues' you have with your bike are good ones but I haven't invented anything, my experiences as I've related them are factual.
.
Don't have any problems restarting on the BMW Offroad Skills Course (and they get dropped plenty). I think that this problem was very unusual - what was the resolution?
Don't have any problems restarting on the BMW Offroad Skills Course (and they get dropped plenty). I think that this problem was very unusual - what was the resolution?
Pressurized
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I'm not totally sure but I think I agree with you in the main!birdseye said:Havent got any buts. Its a great bike..........full stop.
Maybe because I started motoring with the products of the 60's (yes I am
Seems to me that many younger riders have totally unrealistic expectations about reliability, often the result of not having a clue about the mechanics of the bike. The dealer does the servicing and repair - the customer doesnt know his layshaft from his camshaft. Not unsurprisingly, the customer gets baffled by bullshit and conned by service staff and frightened to death by stories of minor problems that he doesnt understand..
Thats not to pretend that BMW have covered themselves with glory in the way that they have developed the 1200GS - test riding courtesy of the customer in the best traditions of British manufacturing. Wonder if they have developed "accountant disease" as many Brit companies have done? *
In the end, you pay your money and make your choice. If you want the nearest thing to complete reliability you have to buy something conventional from the Japs like a Pan. If you want something different with a bit more character but less reliability, then get a 1200GS. But for the moment at least you cant have both.
* As a complete aside, I once wrote to the Chairman of a self proclaimed "major Brit engineering company" to ask how he could run such a company with a board of accountants and lawyers and not a single engineer. His answer was that the accountants had "picked up all the engineering they needed during their careers"
Mind you, I'm not a mechanically inept numpty. I have stripped down an engine or two (and, yes, built them up again!) and I do all the servicing on my 102k mile 1100.
Let me give you an example of 1200 servicing... buy the BMW service manual and you might think it will tell you how to bleed the bike's brakes and it does. It tells you to connect it to the BMW diagnostic compute and follow its instructions. That's all. To do what I regard as a routine job, BMW would have you buy a £30k device.
Many will be fine with that as a lot of us are affluent chaps with enough money to spare to buy one of these great bikes and we can certainly afford to have a BMW dealer do the greasy stuff for us while we drink the complimentary coffee and discuss our next bike purchase (in less than two years) with a nice salesman.
Some will not be fine with that and, if nothing else, let them read this thread and see what they're getting into with this bike's ownership. Yes, you get a magnificent machine - the test ride tells you that - but there are other surprises under the surface that are revealed with ownership.
Pressurized
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The bikes are probably better protected on that course - proper crash bars will sort it and the problem will be gone. It has happened to a few people - have a look at the link on this thread.wilbjr21 said:.
Don't have any problems restarting on the BMW Offroad Skills Course (and they get dropped plenty). I think that this problem was very unusual - what was the resolution?
Resolution was, in this case, for the dealer to replace two spark plugs when the bike got back to Scotland - which it did, under its own power but limping. So, it may have been a damaged plug or a dislodged connector.
Though the mishap was caused by the owner dropping the bike, technically not an act covered by the warranty, the dealer replaced the items at no charge and with no question.
Pressurized,
You didn't rebuff my point about the spark plugs. Can't really lay the blame at BMW's door for those, surely?
Having said that, I do acknowledge the points you have made, and it's no bad thing to criticise BMW for the 1200's failings. I've always been a Honda fan (my 400 four is still going strong), but I think they've let things go, too.
The point I made is that, regardless of one's views on the 1200's reliability, the dealer support is (IMHO) the best of the lot. You said earlier that dealer's don't tend to argue about warranty issues, but that's simply not true in my experience.
At the end of the day, you suffered 2 final drive failures - a known fault. My first 1200 had developed some play - <1mm, and the dealer was going to change the final drive when I was offered a part-ex on a new '06 model I couldn't refuse. But that 1mm of play wouldn't have stopped me touring.
You are fed up with the 1200, and are looking elsewhere. Good for you. But I think you are guilty of over-egging the pudding. Spark plugs, indeed
You didn't rebuff my point about the spark plugs. Can't really lay the blame at BMW's door for those, surely?
Having said that, I do acknowledge the points you have made, and it's no bad thing to criticise BMW for the 1200's failings. I've always been a Honda fan (my 400 four is still going strong), but I think they've let things go, too.
The point I made is that, regardless of one's views on the 1200's reliability, the dealer support is (IMHO) the best of the lot. You said earlier that dealer's don't tend to argue about warranty issues, but that's simply not true in my experience.
At the end of the day, you suffered 2 final drive failures - a known fault. My first 1200 had developed some play - <1mm, and the dealer was going to change the final drive when I was offered a part-ex on a new '06 model I couldn't refuse. But that 1mm of play wouldn't have stopped me touring.
You are fed up with the 1200, and are looking elsewhere. Good for you. But I think you are guilty of over-egging the pudding. Spark plugs, indeed
Funny how hot under the collar you 1200 chaps get when the words crap, reliabilty, fragile, bland looks, spark plugs, brakes, final drive, gearbox, electrics, ground clearance etc are being used. 
Perhaps it isn't a great bike after all
Perhaps it isn't a great bike after all
Shep
Shep of the Dessert
timolgra said:Funny how hot under the collar you 1200 chaps get when the words crap, reliabilty, fragile, bland looks, spark plugs, brakes, final drive, gearbox, electrics, ground clearance etc are being used.
Perhaps it isn't a great bike after all
Fishing season starts friday
Shep
timolgra said:Funny how hot under the collar you 1200 chaps get when the words crap, reliabilty, fragile, bland looks, spark plugs, brakes, final drive, gearbox, electrics, ground clearance etc are being used.
Perhaps it isn't a great bike after all
I like mine, and it hasn't broken down yet.
Does that put me in the silent majority, or the lucky minority?
Mark
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It's a gorgeous sunny day out there, there's a poxy football match on this evening which means the roads will be nice and empty
May I politley suggest that we all go out and ride our bikes as it's far more interesting than re-hashing, yet again, all the usual 1200 reliability bollox 
Andres
May I politley suggest that we all go out and ride our bikes as it's far more interesting than re-hashing, yet again, all the usual 1200 reliability bollox
Andres
Excellenttimolgra said:Funny how hot under the collar you 1200 chaps get when the words crap, reliabilty, fragile, bland looks, spark plugs, brakes, final drive, gearbox, electrics, ground clearance etc are being used.
Perhaps it isn't a great bike after all
I sometimes wonder that if BMW re-introduced the 1100GS, at £6.5k whether it would sell. Maybe tart up the front end a bit. The weight's pretty much the same as the 1200 (which is what put me off the 1150). I would have been interested. And, after all, what else is there?
Tiger = chain
VStrom = ugly, and depreceates
Multistrada = like it, great noise, but poor residuals & no dealer back-up
Varadero = chain, fuel consumption, depreceation & ugly
KTM = Cr*p FI. Fuel range - not. Even KTM admit tank isn't big enough.
Scrambler anyone? (I've got a Bonnie T100 and it's a hoot ++)
Am off to the Peak District, with the missus, in 2 hours, on the 1200, for a long weekendOuttomunch said:May I politley suggest that we all go out and ride our bikes as it's far more interesting than re-hashing, yet again, all the usual 1200 reliability bollox
cookiemonster
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i've gone the other way...
Hi
I got my 12GS at Christmas (loosing both a 1150GS and a VTR, both of which had been faultless). After spending some time on this site I realised that it really was affecting my perceptions of the bike - i was absolutely expecting problems: checking my rear wheel for play, getting worried about the gearbox, thinking that the clutch was beginning to slip, the brakes would fail, etc.
Anyway, I finally decided this was ridiculous and took the thing to Barcelona with a long detour back, two and half thousand miles: forest trails, farm tracks, mountain passes, 100 mph cruising, all absolutley faultless.
So, a couple of observations:
First, I think motorbikes in general are less reliable today than they were 5 years ago. I think there is more cost pressure and competition between the marques, reflected in price and reliability. As has been said many times, BMW is not alone in having issues - new Honda's equally appear to have their problems, something that was unheard of a few years back. With BMW you're paying for the after sales service.
Second - expecting a GS to go round the world out of the crate without preperation is as silly as expecting to go racing on a cbr1000 straight from the showroom. Both are a base, 90% there for what you would need. The BMW off road course is a great advertisement for the 1200's off road abilities in the same manner as Rob Haslam's school is for the CBR's on a track, but only an imbicile would disparage the 1200 because the marketing guys play on the adventure thing, while the bike itself would need some preperation to do the trip.
Just my 2p
Jon
Hi
I got my 12GS at Christmas (loosing both a 1150GS and a VTR, both of which had been faultless). After spending some time on this site I realised that it really was affecting my perceptions of the bike - i was absolutely expecting problems: checking my rear wheel for play, getting worried about the gearbox, thinking that the clutch was beginning to slip, the brakes would fail, etc.
Anyway, I finally decided this was ridiculous and took the thing to Barcelona with a long detour back, two and half thousand miles: forest trails, farm tracks, mountain passes, 100 mph cruising, all absolutley faultless.
So, a couple of observations:
First, I think motorbikes in general are less reliable today than they were 5 years ago. I think there is more cost pressure and competition between the marques, reflected in price and reliability. As has been said many times, BMW is not alone in having issues - new Honda's equally appear to have their problems, something that was unheard of a few years back. With BMW you're paying for the after sales service.
Second - expecting a GS to go round the world out of the crate without preperation is as silly as expecting to go racing on a cbr1000 straight from the showroom. Both are a base, 90% there for what you would need. The BMW off road course is a great advertisement for the 1200's off road abilities in the same manner as Rob Haslam's school is for the CBR's on a track, but only an imbicile would disparage the 1200 because the marketing guys play on the adventure thing, while the bike itself would need some preperation to do the trip.
Just my 2p
Jon
