GS a good idea ?

[CiaoPaddy]

Howdy all. Just new here. I'm currently running around on a Honda Blackbird on which I've knocked up 43k in the past two years. It's an absolutely superb bike, but for years I've been wanting something that can handle a wee bit of offroad as well as do everything else, and the GS seems to be the bike.

My main issue is this - the upright seating position. I have a very crappy back on occasion, and sitting upright seems to put all the weight right down the spine. I'm about 6'2 and 15 stone.

I had a '99 Triumph Tiger for a year and 13k's before I had to get rid of it because of the riding position and windblast. Anything more than 30 miles was torture. I tried raising and lowering the seat but to no avail. I also suffered from windblast, which couldn't be cured either by removing the screen, adding a higher one, or cutting down the standard one.

So I'm wondering has anyone else experienced this sort of trouble on the GS (I'm specifically thinking Adventure), or should I avoid it at all costs ? The best way to find out is of course a 100mile plus testride, but any dealers I've spoken to have been reluctant.

Plus I'm still undecided as to whether I can manage with the loss of power, but think I can

Thanks,
Paddy.

 

[Jimb]

Paddy, I also have a Blackbird which I would not part with for a bucketfull of soverigns, The GS handles just like the bird in fact it might be a bit better due to the telelever/paralever, it doesn't have the rush of power but on real roads its as much as is useable.
I'm 6' 1" and 15 1/2 stone and I too have a gimp back but I find the riding position is fine, I do however have a Melvin Hunter custom seat with a honeycomb gel pad insert, see threads on "ooh my back".

I would avoid the adventure if you have a suspect back, but you can have the big tank and some other bits on a standard GS.

As to the loss of power issue, the bird is one of 5 bikes in its class and little else will come close to it, but the GS delivers its power much lower down and it has loads of torque, it really does go, I love it, the high eyeline is great and it can do things that no other bike can, don't look upon it as an offroad bike its more an all terrain tourer.

I'm assuming you'll be keeping your bird and have the GS as well, the GS will cost next to nothing to insure in addition to the bird.

Here is a pic of my seat.

 

[guitarman]

Ciao baby !

I remember seeing a report by some back doctor a couple of years ago that reckoned a sports touring riding position (eg VFR, Blackbird etc. not R1s or the like) was the kindest position for the back as in general the weight was well balanced. I'm not sure I agree with that as I thought my VFR was the most uncomfortable bike I've ever ridden. There's also been a couple of threads where people have complained about lower back pain on the GS.

I took part in a survey by an ergonomics expert a year or so ago and the general view appears to be that a balanced riding position is the important thing. I'm 5' 8" and I find the GS is just about right for me in terms of riding position. I'm leaning forward slightly which takes some weight and the pegs are nicely balanced so that my legs also give a little support.

You may find you'll need to alter bars or seat (as others have already commented on other threads) but it seems a pretty hit and miss affair.

You'll also find there is no simple answer to the wind blast problem. I use a Givi screen which works well enough for me but others will argue the merits of a number of screens.

All in all I reckon the GS to be the most practical bike on the market. It does everything I want from a bike which is no bad thing.

I think it will either suit you or not and the only way is to get a long test ride. Why not offer the Blackbird to a friendly GSer and do a long ride together (oo er missus) ?

Hope this helps

Cheers

Dick

 

[CiaoPaddy]

Hi guys,

Many thanks for the replies and suggestions. Yup, I find the sports-touring position very comfy coz it spreads out the weight via arms, feet and back. Whenever I do my back in I go for a spin as it's actually the only thing I find that helps.

I'd like to keep the Blackie as I've poured so much money into it at this stage that I'd be at a huge loss. Don't think I'd get much for it anyway as it's high mileage and it's hard enough to sell big bikes in Ireland. Plus, believe it or not, I think the running costs are very reasonable. It's a lot easier on tyres and chains than the Tiger ever was !

My interest in the GS is that it's both practical and might also be good for nipping over to Morocoo, Turkey, India, Russia and other places I'd like to visit. And it's way better for light trail-riding than the CBR, though I still wouldn't like to try and cross an Irish bog !

I've posted on an Irish group about a test swap and have gotten a reply, so if I get a spin and enjoy it I'll be back. Thanks again.

Ciao !
Paddy.

 

[the celt]

Hi paddy
welcome on board if you want a try one will be back in four or five weeks, just sent you a pm check mailbox.
regards
celt

 

[MikeO]

Paddy,

although I've not suffered from back pain, I've had some problems with trapped nerves in my neck which my Chiro puts down to poor posture. I've fitted Ricardo Kuhns Pro-Taper bars. Ricardo is a member of this forum and has done a lot of work in the problems of the ergonomics of the GS. I'm sure he'll chip in eventually, but if you just do a search for 'Pro-Taper', you should find some interesting reading.
Andy Malton has these bars fitted. Regrettably, I'll have to wait a while before I can give you a report on mine, as I'm still recovering from a tarmac interface back in Dec. Plenty of satisfied customers on the American 'ADVriders' site, though....


MikeO

 

[CiaoPaddy]

Well, I borrowed a '95 R1100 GS on Saturday and knocked up 325 miles. I was pleased to find my back didn't hurt, though I was eventually getting a sore arse, and my shoulder-blades were getting sore when riding into a strong headwind at 70-75 mph. Nothing major though, and there was plenty of room to move around the relieve the aching butt.

I was also much more relaxed when stuck in heavy traffic crawling along at 30-45mph. On the Blackbird I tend to start getting very impatient in these circumstances and do batty overtakes. Fuel economy was good, about 55mpg, and it has a wonderful character. What nearly sold me entirely was the fact I wasn't getting roasted in town and heavy traffic, the Blackbird is a b#tch for doing that as it runs very hot and blows the air back on you.

The main downside to the GS was the horrendous switchgear, bloody awful. It also surged a lot under 2.5k rpm, though maybe that was just this particular bike. The handling was good, though I didn't find the suspension any plusher, even on dodgy Irish roads.

Overall, ridden in isolation, it was a superb bike. But when I got back on my Blackbird I was just blown away. Everything was so smooth and the controls, brakes and everything were so good it felt as if I was floating feet in the air and not on a bike at all. It was so responsive it felt as if we were one, as soon as I wanted to do something it was done, whereas on the GS I had to think and plan everything. Raise the bars a bit on the Blackbird and it would be perfect.

In comparison the GS felt clunky and agricultural, not a bad thing as it lent it great character, but it felt dated and old skool. Best comparison would be comparing a Mig29 to an F16, the avionics are just as good, but the cockpit controls/ergonomics are obsolete, if you know what I mean.

Overall, I would have one, but I'm probably not going to sell the Blackbird to do so. But it is likely it will be my next bike. I'll have to try and blag a test-ride on a new bike and see if the controls have improved any.

 

[Richard34]

Remember - 03 bikes onward are Twin plugged so surging is now a thing of the past (in theory at least!!)

I have'nt suffered surging at all and as for the switchgear - OK it seems strange at first but it's amazing how quickly you get used to it. As for agricultural - just get rid of the cat and fit a new pipe and K & N - I'm told its like riding a different bike after this mod.

I'll let you know on Saturday when mine get's the above treatment.

At the end of the day you can't compare the 2 bikes it's almost the equavalent of the test in the latest issue of bike between the R1 and the KLM

As the old saying goes "horses for courses" n' all that.

 

[MikeO]

Remember - 03 bikes onward are Twin plugged so surging is now a thing of the past (in theory at least!!)

A very bold statement.


MikeO

 

[CiaoPaddy]

Do you mean the surging is a common problem then ? Yuck. I didn't like that at all in town, especially when tricking to trickle along on a low throttle and it suddenly feckin jumps forward or nearly stalls.

 

[the celt]

Hi Paddy,
how's it going ? this surging thing i have 96 r1100gs no problems and spoke with a few gser with r1150 at the all ireland meet and no one i spoke to had this problem maybe its like snakes st pat banished surging as well.
regards
celt

 

[Richard34]

A very bold statement.


MikeO

Note the "In theory anyway" afterthought Mike!!

Just going by my so far so good GS non surging experience and assuming that it's down to the twinspark setup.

 

[londonw1]

Well upto 2000 miles now on my twin spark, and only 5 weeks old.... but I can confirm that so far not the slightest sign of a surge

 

[cecilthecat]

Yep no surging on my twin spark either

 

[MikeO]

I'd be more convinced if all single sparks did surge, though. My Adv was fine for the first 600 miles, then surged like a git (they re-set the Motronic at 600, or so I'm told...). If you do a search for 'Surging' you'll find a poll I did a while ago that (from memory) showed that about 40% of bikes had suffered from surging, although a lot had managed to get it fixed.
It's possible (looking at the black side ), if twinsparking hasn't solved the problem, that your bikes could be, by statistical luck, in the 60% that don't surge.
It's also possible that twinsparking has cured the problem (I genuinely hope so) - I just think it's a little early for the jury to think about coming in yet....


MikeO

 

[BMWRider]

Well, I borrowed a '95 R1100 GS on Saturday and knocked up 325 miles. I was pleased to find my back didn't hurt, though I was eventually getting a sore arse, and my shoulder-blades were getting sore when riding into a strong headwind at 70-75 mph. Nothing major though, and there was plenty of room to move around the relieve the aching butt.

When I first climbed aboard the GS I thought the seat was horrific, just awful. Too narrow, for one thing. Then I began to really like it. And now I'm sort of drifting back to the "It sucks" camp. I do shift my weight around on it a lot, which helps, but it's no road sofa in my book.

I was also much more relaxed when stuck in heavy traffic crawling along at 30-45mph. On the Blackbird I tend to start getting very impatient in these circumstances and do batty overtakes. Fuel economy was good, about 55mpg, and it has a wonderful character. What nearly sold me entirely was the fact I wasn't getting roasted in town and heavy traffic, the Blackbird is a b#tch for doing that as it runs very hot and blows the air back on you.

The GS is the best big bike I've ever owned for 'round town traffic. It's a delight at low speeds and doesn't run so hot that you cook.

The main downside to the GS was the horrendous switchgear, bloody awful. It also surged a lot under 2.5k rpm, though maybe that was just this particular bike. The handling was good, though I didn't find the suspension any plusher, even on dodgy Irish roads.

Well, this is the oldest complaint about BMWs: their weird switchgear. I've personally come to favor it over the Japanese standard but I can understand those who think it's "bloody awful". I dunno ... I've gotten used to it over the years and now prefer. For one thing, the big turn signal paddles are easy to engage. But I see both sides on this ...

Overall, ridden in isolation, it was a superb bike. But when I got back on my Blackbird I was just blown away. Everything was so smooth and the controls, brakes and everything were so good it felt as if I was floating feet in the air and not on a bike at all. It was so responsive it felt as if we were one, as soon as I wanted to do something it was done, whereas on the GS I had to think and plan everything. Raise the bars a bit on the Blackbird and it would be perfect.

I rode a Blackbird once and found it a torture chamber! But I'm a pretty large fellow and don't easily contort into sportbike riding positions, hence my affection for touring/sport-touring/adventure bikes.
And there's no question that Hondas are beautifully built motorcycles and very, very refined. Some would say too refined ... I rode a friend's ST1300 and came away impressed with it as a piece of engineering, but it didn't stir my soul. The GS does. (Interestingly, my buddy switched with me when we rode each other's bikes. He loved the GS so much he's considering getting one ...)

In comparison the GS felt clunky and agricultural, not a bad thing as it lent it great character, but it felt dated and old skool. Best comparison would be comparing a Mig29 to an F16, the avionics are just as good, but the cockpit controls/ergonomics are obsolete, if you know what I mean.

The GS IS old school! It's a Boxer twin, man! But it'll last forever ...

 

[luke scott]

Limerick

Paddy,
A bike "importer" in Limerick..... will sell you a brand new Adventure for 15,500 euro if you offer it to him. My 02 graphitan model with every possible extra is also for sale. PM me if you are interested.

 

[roadrider]

switchgear

Paddy
the GS you rode would have had the older style indicator switches. The later ones are a big improvement, and I've had no surge probs at all on any of the boxers I've owned.
John

 

[CiaoPaddy]

Hi Luke,

Yep, Meskills. I've been down sitting on his Adventurer and drooling. I remember at the bike show in the RDS recently the Dublin Touring Club (or someone) just next to his stand were selling them for about 18k. You'd have to be daft !
I was also considering buying a nearly new in Germany. Examples with all the kit and maybe 5,000 km's up are going for just under the 12k mark, or 14k new. What with paying VRT there's no point in going new with Meskills prices. I still want one but can't afford it for a while now as have bought a house. Want to sell house and have bike now though !!

Roadrider - yep, I've checked out newer bikes since and the indicators do look a definite improvement. The R1100 seemed to be way further down and forward. Having monkey-like thumbs seemed almost a necessity. And having to press the 'Cancel' button UP caught me out for a long time - I had thought it was just jammed ! I'm not going to mention trying to find the start button for the first time !