Hall Effect Sensor - timing

[Dr Bones]

I changed the HES on my r1100gs today. I marked the position of the old one and put the new one back in the same place. However I noticed that the old one had been fitted so it was adjusted fully anti-clockwise. If I am correct this is advancing the ignition by about 3 degrees from standard?

The bike starts and runs fine, I just wondered where the HES should be set as standard?

 

[Dr Bones]

I just found this with a bit of Googling

1. Bike on center stand, sidestand up, HES connector plugged in, in other words ready to start.
2. HES sensor plate screws just loose enough to slide the plate back and forth
3. Put the engine to TDC exactly. This is important.
4. Turn the key on
5. Move the HES sensor plate back and forth. At a certain point you will hear the fuel pump cycle.
6. Tighten the plate down there and the timing should be bang on.

sounds like a plan?

 

[Oldie]

I'm just about to do mine.

What did you use to lock the flywheel in position? Why is this necessary? Thanks

 

[west coast traveller]

No need to lock flywheel. When I did mine I undid the pulley bolt by using socket with the ratchet/bar wedged up against the wishbone. Press the starter motor and it cracks the nut loose. When tightening, first gear and rear brake should allow enough resistance to set the correct torque. From memory think this advice was first given by Steptoe but I may be mistaken.
Good luck.
Sent from my MID using Tapatalk 2

 

[Dr Bones]

I'm just about to do mine.

What did you use to lock the flywheel in position? Why is this necessary? Thanks

I did lock the flywheel. I just bent a bit of M8 rod I had lying about to these dimensions and tapered the end with a file.

http://advwisdom.hogranch.com/Wisdom/oilhead_tdc_mandrel.pdf

As mentioned, it's not strictly necessary to lock the flywheel, but it does make the job easier if you are working by yourself.

 

[Oldie]

 

[Dr Bones]

I just found this with a bit of Googling

1. Bike on center stand, sidestand up, HES connector plugged in, in other words ready to start.
2. HES sensor plate screws just loose enough to slide the plate back and forth
3. Put the engine to TDC exactly. This is important.
4. Turn the key on
5. Move the HES sensor plate back and forth. At a certain point you will hear the fuel pump cycle.
6. Tighten the plate down there and the timing should be bang on.

sounds like a plan?

I tried this today with the engine locked in TDC, and it didn't matter where the HES plate was, the pump didn't want to cycle again after the ignition was turned on. So I built a version of this test box

http://advwisdom.hogranch.com/Wisdom/oilhead_timing_box.pdf

and tried again, but I couldn't get the TDC light to go out wherever I set the HES plate.

So I took Jim Hill's (ifixyourbike.com) advice of setting the HES plate in the middle, and quite conveniently there is a hole at the bottom of the plate which lines up to a blind hole on the engine. I used a drill bit in this hole to centre the HES plate, then tightened everything down.

The bike starts, runs and sounds happy, in fact not really any different from when the plate was fully anti clockwise.

Job done I think..

 

[monkeyboy]

No need to lock flywheel. When I did mine I undid the pulley bolt by using socket with the ratchet/bar wedged up against the wishbone. Press the starter motor and it cracks the nut loose. When tightening, first gear and rear brake should allow enough resistance to set the correct torque. From memory think this advice was first given by Steptoe but I may be mistaken.
Good luck.
Sent from my MID using Tapatalk 2

Personally I would lock it. It only takes a minute. I didn't do my bolt up tight enough and after about a week it came loose, wrecked the ring for the sensor and left me to wait 3 hours for the AA to collect me

 

[west coast traveller]

Personally I would lock it. It only takes a minute. I didn't do my bolt up tight enough and after about a week it came loose, wrecked the ring for the sensor and left me to wait 3 hours for the AA to collect me

I would do the same If I couldn't torque it up to the correct spec..

Sent from my MID using Tapatalk 2

 

[MattW]

Personally I would lock it. It only takes a minute. I didn't do my bolt up tight enough and after about a week it came loose, wrecked the ring for the sensor and left me to wait 3 hours for the AA to collect me

You don't need to lock it to torque up the bolt - just put the bike in top gear, stand on the brake pedal and torque away. Easy to do this on your own as you can easily reach down to the torque wrench while standing on the pegs (and the brake pedal).

 

[Trullion]

Yep; that's what I did too, though since then I have acquired the proper crankshaft locking tool. FWIW my old HES plate was roughly in the middle of the adjustment arc and that is where I positioned the new one. I didn't bother timing it statically; the bike has run fine ever since, though I believe it's a fraction more advanced than before as the tickover increased very slightly after the new HES was fitted. Seems to run better if anything, though I do now run it on 97 octane fuel, in a (probably vain) attempt to avoid fuel with ethanol in it - plastic tank on the RS. The only problem I had replacing the HES was that the crankshaft pulley separated from the timing disc (?), so I had to superglue it back together. This possibility is mentioned in Haynes, but not Clymer, FWIW.

 

[Dr Bones]

Mine separated too, but the timing disc was keyed so it only went back on one way, and stayed put when it did. So no glue required.

 

[Oldie]

Mmmmmm, I didn't realise that the timing disc was meant to be attached to the pulley wheel. Maybe that's why I struggled to get the disc to stay centred . Mine doesn't seem to be keyed though so might try the superglue idea (or read the manual first!).

Oh, and I don't seem to have part No.7 (above), just the bolt that goes through the wheel and disc.

 

[Dr Bones]

On my bike the timing disc just seemed to be a push fit on to the pulley, it came apart but went back together with enough fiction to stop it falling apart in my hands. When I said the timing disc was keyed, I meant that there is a metal tab on it that locates in the slot on the shaft, not that it was keyed to the pulley.

Part 7 is just a washer

Washer 1 11311341572

All fiche info here:

http://www.realoem.com/bmw/

 

[Oldie]

On my bike the timing disc just seemed to be a push fit on to the pulley, it came apart but went back together with enough fiction to stop it falling apart in my hands. When I said the timing disc was keyed, I meant that there is a metal tab on it that locates in the slot on the shaft, not that it was keyed to the pulley.

Part 7 is just a washer

Washer 1 11311341572

All fiche info here:

http://www.realoem.com/bmw/

Ah, yes, mine is the same then

 

[monkeyboy]

Ah, yes, mine is the same then

I got a tip from Steptoe about this I think. Superglue the hall ring onto the back of the pully before reassembling. It saves mashing the tab and makes relocating the assembly much easier/safer. The superglue is only temporary and the pieces easily come appart next time you need them to. Works every time.

 

[Trullion]

Yes, that's what I thought I had said. According to Haynes, some early sensor rings were spot welded to the pulley. The later ones were not, they were glued. The latter could therefore separate, as mine did, probably through constant heating then cooling. Whilst I could locate the ring on the pulley using the tab provided, I couldn't centralise it. So I looked at Haynes and lo and behold it mentions the problem and the solution ie superglue the ring to the pulley, then fit them both. Sorted.