Hall sensor suspect

[Johny w]

My bike died today, but started immediately, its done it before and I suspected the lamda sensor which I replaced. My symptoms were inconsistent idle speed and occasional stall when stopping.
Well it's happening again,and I'm suspecting the hall sensor or the fuel pump. I've replaced the fuel filter and the lines seemed fine. New plugs, oil packs, clearances and lambda sensor. Any advice on how to check the hall sensor please? And maybe fuel pump?

 

[ThreeDawg]

I blamed my hall sensor when my bike stopped. It was the pump in fact - how old is yours, what sort of condition is the wiring to the HES in? A new pump will be about £60, an HES about £140, peace of mind for two hundred quid?

 

[DrFarkoff]

My bike died today, but started immediately, its done it before and I suspected the lamda sensor which I replaced. My symptoms were inconsistent idle speed and occasional stall when stopping.
Well it's happening again,and I'm suspecting the hall sensor or the fuel pump. I've replaced the fuel filter and the lines seemed fine. New plugs, oil packs, clearances and lambda sensor. Any advice on how to check the hall sensor please? And maybe fuel pump?

Is it a twin spark or a single spark variant ? Could be its got a duff main coil (But they "usually" fail when you are on acceleration!)

Fuel pump "Usually" fails at higher RPM or just does not work! Even if a pipe is split it "usually" can create enough pressure for tickover.

Was the the fault present before you went into the tank or after ??

Does it idle like that all the time? Or just when it is about to conk out?
Were you in standing traffic and the bike over 5 bars on Temp gauge?
Was it wet ?? Any difference between wet and dry conditions?
Did the revcounter flick about all over the place?

Also re Lambda Just unplug it from loom, I have seen about 5 where even a new Lambda does not cure the issue and unplugging it does Perhaps a loom fault (or a faulty new part But I get NGK from a local autofactor so a trusted source!) The ECU defaults to a base map so will run okay in fact I know a few have been disconnected for a LONG time

You can slip the black front cover down and out the left side and examine the HES wiring for cracks or damage

I would diagnose stuff more thoroughly before pulling the trigger on the parts cannon and wonder what the heck cured it

Edit extra thoughts ...................Was the bike up to working temperature??? If it was cold and you do not have the throttle cracked open, it's way too rich and will stall and likely start straight back up
Have you checked the TPS settings? .38 volt with Ign on
Have you the idle set to 1050 rpm + or - 50rpm When at 5 bars

 

[Adrian]

My bike died today, but started immediately, its done it before and I suspected the lamda sensor which I replaced. My symptoms were inconsistent idle speed and occasional stall when stopping.
Well it's happening again,and I'm suspecting the hall sensor or the fuel pump. I've replaced the fuel filter and the lines seemed fine. New plugs, oil packs, clearances and lambda sensor. Any advice on how to check the hall sensor please? And maybe fuel pump?

I had very similar symptoms with my 1150GSA. Changed the Hall Sensor which fixed the bike. Easy job to do if you have the flywheel locking tool. Hope this helps.

 

[Johny w]

I blamed my hall sensor when my bike stopped. It was the pump in fact - how old is yours, what sort of condition is the wiring to the HES in? A new pump will be about £60, an HES about £140, peace of mind for two hundred quid?

It's a 2003 1150gs......not sure were to look for the wiring, but I'll find out, under the tank somewhere I presume. I should have renewed the pump when I did the filter.around £300 from motorworks for the sensor.

 

[DrFarkoff]

It's a 2003 1150gs......not sure were to look for the wiring, but I'll find out, under the tank somewhere I presume. I should have renewed the pump when I did the filter.around £300 from motorworks for the sensor.

The wiring that you need to check out is under the front black plastic cover and behind the crank pulley

Perhaps just buy one of the Greek ones off e bay and just change it while you are there

Did you see my post above with questions??

That is basically the diagnostic process I would have followed when I got a bike in for work

If your spark plug cover is a long strip from front to back of the rocker cover yours is a single spark

If it is "tadpole" shaped with the tail to the rear it is a twin spark and has stick coils

 

[Johny w]

The wiring that you need to check out is under the front black plastic cover and behind the crank pulley

Perhaps just buy one of the Greek ones off e bay and just change it while you are there

Did you see my post above with questions??

That is basically the diagnostic process I would have followed when I got a bike in for work

If your spark plug cover is a long strip from front to back of the rocker cover yours is a single spark

If it is "tadpole" shaped with the tail to the rear it is a twin spark and has stick coils

Thanks.....no its a twin spark, ill have a check this winter sometime.
It sounds like theres not much to go wrong apart from the wiring.

 

[Johny w]

Is it a twin spark or a single spark variant ? Could be its got a duff main coil (But they "usually" fail when you are on acceleration!)

Fuel pump "Usually" fails at higher RPM or just does not work! Even if a pipe is split it "usually" can create enough pressure for tickover.

Was the the fault present before you went into the tank or after ??

Does it idle like that all the time? Or just when it is about to conk out?
Were you in standing traffic and the bike over 5 bars on Temp gauge?
Was it wet ?? Any difference between wet and dry conditions?
Did the revcounter flick about all over the place?

Also re Lambda Just unplug it from loom, I have seen about 5 where even a new Lambda does not cure the issue and unplugging it does Perhaps a loom fault (or a faulty new part But I get NGK from a local autofactor so a trusted source!) The ECU defaults to a base map so will run okay in fact I know a few have been disconnected for a LONG time

You can slip the black front cover down and out the left side and examine the HES wiring for cracks or damage

I would diagnose stuff more thoroughly before pulling the trigger on the parts cannon and wonder what the heck cured it

Edit extra thoughts ...................Was the bike up to working temperature??? If it was cold and you do not have the throttle cracked open, it's way too rich and will stall and likely start straight back up
Have you checked the TPS settings? .38 volt with Ign on
Have you the idle set to 1050 rpm + or - 50rpm When at 5 bars

Thanks I missed that......yes twin spark, done TPS, happens all the time, but it definately improved after fitting new Lambda sensor.
Idle set at 1050 but goes down 50rpm then back up.
Normal running temp, and all the time. Starts straight back up and runs great once riding, needle doesn't flicker about just goes up and down

 

[Johny w]

Thanks.....no its a twin spark, ill have a check this winter sometime.
It sounds like theres not much to go wrong apart from the wiring.

Can't remember if it was present before going into the tank

 

[Johny w]

I had very similar symptoms with my 1150GSA. Changed the Hall Sensor which fixed the bike. Easy job to do if you have the flywheel locking tool. Hope this helps.

I've made a flywheel locking tool

 

[hops]

I've made a flywheel locking tool

I'm sure the more technically gifted will confirm if I am wrong but having done a couple of these I've never used such a tool. Old one off new one on, bosh! I have had similar symptoms on an 1150 previously and the cause turned out to be the U shaped rubber pipe that sits inside the tank coming off the pump. As it is immersed in petrol, you cannot use any old rubber tubing and they often deteriorate from inside so a cursory glance might not show anything amiss but they fail under pressure.

 

[Johny w]

I'm sure the more technically gifted will confirm if I am wrong but having done a couple of these I've never used such a tool. Old one off new one on, bosh! I have had similar symptoms on an 1150 previously and the cause turned out to be the U shaped rubber pipe that sits inside the tank coming off the pump. As it is immersed in petrol, you cannot use any old rubber tubing and they often deteriorate from inside so a cursory glance might not show anything amiss but they fail under pressure.

Yes, I did inspect it when I done the filter, it looked fine, but yeh it's a possibility, thanks.

 

[Steptoe]

I've made a flywheel locking tool

You don’t need one.
Socket on the alternator pulley nut with a long ratchet. Unplug both fuel injector electrical connections.
Turn ignition on, hold ratchet, tap starter . Pulley nut cracked undone ..

 

[ThreeDawg]

While we're here, and given that I may have changed out a perfectly good HES, is there a way to test it on the bench?

 

[NeilDD]

While we're here, and given that I may have changed out a perfectly good HES, is there a way to test it on the bench?

NOID tester.
Have a look, and remember to try at ambient and also when hot, as it's usual failure is when hot

 

[jetjock]

While we're here, and given that I may have changed out a perfectly good HES, is there a way to test it on the bench?

I thought the actual HES doesn’t fail , but it’s the wiring to it that breaks down over time

 

[Steptoe]

I’ve had a few bikes over the years that would start on the button and sit idling for as long as you wanted without any problems.
But the moment you touched the throttle they would stall, but would fire up straight away if you pressed the starter ..
It was the hall sensor on all of them.
The first bike I encountered with this problem I changed lots of parts as it doesn’t seem like an HES problem as it tested ok.
Luckily I have a stack of used parts so no money was spent on buying parts and throwing them at the bike in the hope of finding the problem.

 

[ThreeDawg]

NOID tester.
Have a look, and remember to try at ambient and also when hot, as it's usual failure is when hot

I'd definitely be a-NOID if it failed, but that is a given. What the hell is a NOID tester?

 

[NeilDD]

I'd definitely be a-NOID if it failed, but that is a given. What the hell is a NOID tester?

NOID tester/light You plug it into the output of the hall sensor (Remember there are 2 in the sensor plate) and as you pass a slotted wheel through the sensor the light should pulse.
Remember you will need the 12V supply to the sensor plate.
There might still be the drawings to make your own in the font of all knowledge