Has the 1200GS lost the GS Plot??

[JohnnyBoxer]

This WILL be controversial..................and I'll be slated 'up hill and down dale'

However .........'Has the 1200GS lost the plot in the GS genre'

I will state my reasons -

From a more traditional GS styling perspective - how can it be a GS with -

Cast wheels (yes......... I know you can get spokes)

Plastic Rear Rack

Flappy Tank Panels

No rear mudguard and underseat protection (you get covered in crap)

Canbus wiring...........making wiring in of extras more technical

Reliability.........
Every day there are reports of serious failures and bikes flying about on recovery trucks...................pretty bad for an Adv Tourer, due to failures of :-

Fuel Pumps

Final Drives

Electrics

Brake Servo's

Oil Leaks

Rear shock

Side stand collapsing

and more

THE PROBLEMS DO NOT SEEM TO BE GOING AWAY


Now........Corrosion...........

Some of the first bikes are starting to rust on frames

I know the 1100 and 1150GS's have had corrosion and reliability issues...................but nothing on the scale of the 1200GS and corrosion will only get worse


Fit and finish

Looking at the bike, I personally think the finish and build quality is poorer than any other previous GS.

The frame and rear subframe looks like it's been put together badly and the finish is rough


Riding appraisal

Yes it's fast and is quicker than an 1150

Yes it handles.....But handling is not any better than an 1150 in real terms

Screen's crap

I could go on..............


I have had the opportunity to buy a 1200GS in 2004 and 2005, for the same or less money than an 1150.............but it never appealed

Some owners of 1200GS's are reverting back to 1150's...........ask yourself why??

If you've never had an earlier GS..............you'll think your 1200GS is the 'bees knees'..............but you don't know what great bikes you've missed

To me the the 1200GS is a street bike...................dressed up to look like an offroad GS...........it feels & looks like a street bike, not a GS

I'll get my coat.............and put my tin hat on

 

[graham h]

thank god i purchased one of thr last GSA! and it brilliant!!!

 

[Rich]

Johnny,
Its good to see a thorough technical round up of some of the problems 1200 owners have had on the bikes and may still face. Shame to see some personal opinions dropped in, but otherwise good effort. Will help me to know what to look out for.
Johnny, thank you.
Hope your enjoying your bike as much as Im enjoying mine.
Rich

 

[Deleted account 211025001]

I know you're only trying to get a bit of friendly debate going Johnny but, I really don't get this 1100 v 1150 v 1200 bollox

Me, I just ride mine and have fun

Andres

 

[Paul Wakefield]

JohnnyBoxer,

I was going to rise to the bait (Well actually I have!) and take you on on virtually all the points (e.g. in my opinion, the screen is INFINITELY better than the 1150 screen and I do know what I'm talking about as I had an 1150 for 4 years) but in the end I couldn't be bothered except for:

How many 1200's have been sold in the first year of production compared with the first year of previous models (particularly the 1100 and standard 1150)? How much has membership of this forum increased over the last few years? How much has there been a general growth in internet use? My point being that impressions of reliability are bound to be distorted by sheer numbers and availability of information.

The dealers say it has been pretty relaible compared with previous models. This may not be any less biased but puts the other side.

After all servos are not even a 1200 specific problem!

None of which invalidates your personal views, its just that I disagree with (most of) them!

Paul

 

[Clive]

To me the the 1200GS is a street bike...................dressed up to look like an offroad GS...........it feels & looks like a street bike, not a GS

Yawn. Whatever.

 

[JohnnyBoxer]

JohnnyBoxer,

I was going to rise to the bait (Well actually I have!) and take you on on virtually all the points (e.g. in my opinion, the screen is INFINITELY better than the 1150 screen and I do know what I'm talking about as I had an 1150 for 4 years) but in the end I couldn't be bothered except for:

How many 1200's have been sold in the first year of production compared with the first year of previous models (particularly the 1100 and standard 1150)? How much has membership of this forum increased over the last few years? How much has there been a general growth in internet use? My point being that impressions of reliability are bound to be distorted by sheer numbers and availability of information.

The dealers say it has been pretty relaible compared with previous models. This may not be any less biased but puts the other side.

After all servos are not even a 1200 specific problem!

None of which invalidates your personal views, its just that I disagree with (most of) them!

Paul

Thanks for the reply Paul,
I know it's personal opinion and taste, but the 1100 and 1150 screens suit me, but I thought the 1200 screen was abysmal

On 1200 reliability................was it the sales staff saying it was pretty reliable, compared to previous models OR the service technicians????...............I wonder !!

The Technicians have a very, very different view of all the new models and most prefer earlier bikes............and I know who I would sooner listen to about the good and bad points of a bike.... and it's not a slick salesman

 

[JohnnyBoxer]

This is NOT an 1100GS v 1150GS v 1200GS debate...........

It's an 1100GS/1150GS v 1200GS

Slight difference and has the 1200GS lost its GSness

 

[Wraithwrider]

Johnny

We could continue this conversation tonight over a beer and a map

What I find striking is the number of 1200 owners who say that the bike is the best they have ever ridden.

As for being of the GS Genre, well it certainly isn't an RT or an ST.

Most 1150's are used predominantly as road bikes I suspect. They are too heavy for any serious off roading especially if you're built like me!

So cast wheels are fine with me. I have no shame at all in admitting that my 1200 is a road bike, and a great one.

With a couple of mods such as wire wheels and TCKs the 1200 makes a better off road bike than the 1150, ask the guys at the BMW off road course.

Plastic rear rack, introduced on the 1150 first.

Flappy tank panels, only if they are not properly secured.

Rear hugger available, fitted and resolves the crappy rear end/left leg.

Wiring straight to the battery via fuse and/or relay is not very technical. Fuse panels available.

Finish could be better but the same can be said for the 1150. Mines holding out okay.

The standard screen is great for me (I'm tall in the body and use it on its lowest setting).

There are a lot of 1200s now with pretty big miles on and no or few problems. Their owners are always keen to shout this out but the few who have had problems seem to be paid more attention to.

I wanted an 1150 and had done for years. When I had the funds available the 1200 was released. I am loyal to my steed.

I suppose that this sums it up for me. IF 1150 or ADV owners want the ranks of 1200 owners to say 'you were right all along, the old uns are better' then they should be asking themselves what insecurity prompts this.

All IMHO of course

Peter

 

[Steve]

has the 1200GS lost its GSness

Definitely.

 

[Tricky]

Johnny

Although i understand the rationale behind some of your earlier points i think they relate to 'differences' rather than 'faults'

However quote;

Technicians have a very, very different view of the new model and most prefer earlier bikes

Where is the evidence for this then? (and please don't start a poll elsewhere!)

I get the feeling that although you are good at giving critical opinions, you are kind of 'losing the plot/debate' when when recieving them back............ just my opinion of cause!

 

[JohnnyBoxer]

Johnny

Although i understand the rationale behind some of your earlier points i think they relate to 'differences' rather than 'faults'

However quote;

Technicians have a very, very different view of the new model and most prefer earlier bikes

Where is the evidence for this then? (and please don't start a poll elsewhere!)

I get the feeling that although you are good at giving critical opinions, you are kind of 'losing the plot/debate' when when recieving them back............ just my opinion of cause!

Just from my own conversations with some of the technicians, maybe not objective and statistically scientific, more a gut feel and having to put up with continued fixes of 1200's and getting grumpy like some of their owners.

Sorry..........I'll try not to lose the plot on replies

Pete (Wraithrider)............which 1100/1150 had a plastic rear rack, none of mine did.............except for the plastic tool box tray lid, that was cast metal ??? Look forward to a beer later today.

 

[Bert]

Dear Johnny

You're entitled to your wrong opinion!!
Mine's done some 12200 miles, and the last 7200 from riding on and off road through France, Germany, Austria, Hungary, Romania, Bulgaria, Turkey, Greece, Italy and back. It went on many a back road mostly wrecked if not non-existent tarmac, pot-holed muddy tracks, gravel tracks etc loaded with camping kit, spare TKC etc and it never missed a beat. That bike is a gem.

Heavy? yes hugely especially for vertically challenged short-a*sed riders like me but massive in the grin factor! (except when you have to pick it up!)

Tell me/us....how many miles have YOU lived with and ridden the R1200GS????

 

[MIKE R]

Couldn't resist putting in my 2ps worth.

When I bought my 1200, I kept my standard 1150 and now run them side by side.

Both are great bikes, but which suits me the best (not which is the best bike)

Well, here goes

Many people on this board and the press critisised the 1150 for being too heavy, so BM shaved off a lot of weight....too much in my opinion and its a bit plasticy/tinny in some areas. But I came to GSes from Goldwings and never found the weight a problem on the 1150 or my previous 1100.

My 1200 has only covered 3k miles and no problems yet (touch wood) except a bit of corrosion on the rear sub frame that I will report to my dealer later. During the first 2 years of my 2002, no servo, 1150 ownership the front brakes failed at 5k (strange, resolved by replacing the fluid, seems air got in somehow), half worn rear brake pads fell apart and the fork brace, clutch and gearbox covers had to be replaced due to corrosion.

I find the 1200 screen better than the original 1150 but not as good as my MRA Vario screen. I will put a Vario (not MRA Touring) when they become available (in June according to MRA, Germany)

The standard 1200 seat is more comfy than the original 1150, but both have now been given the 'Melvin' treatment.

Both bikes are now equipped with horns can be heard.

So the 1200 has cast wheels, but that was my choice. I could have paid the extra and got wire ones, but I could also exchange my wire 1150s for a set of cast.

The 1200 is faster and has better brakes/handling but appears to have lost some of the character of the 1150. However, straight from the crate without a Remus, modified seat, screen etc all of which many of us have on the 1150, I think it is the better bike.

BUT

I still prefer my 1150 with all its bits, but the grin is getting bigger with every ride on the 1200. I miss the 'Remus roar' on the 12, but that should be sorted this weekend!

On reflection, I'll sit on the fence and call it a draw!

Mike R

 

[Tricky]

Johnny Boxer

Good to have a constructive healthy debate about something that is so close to all our hearts......... (to be honest i think this one will run and run mind!)
Enjoy your pint later post any constructive conclusions (agree to disagree etc) won't you...

 

[Den]

Johnny, In my opinion it was the 1100/1150 which was the departure from the GS original concept. And thank goodness for that.
The GS started off as a lighter weight BMW with off road capabilities complete with plastic bits and not a hint of long distance tourer.
The 1200, in my opinion, carries on this tradition, albeit with a bit more road bias.

 

[birdseye]

You will always get these debates as a manufacturer moves on and develops new products. Happens in cars and boats - will happen in bikes too.

I chose the 1200 because it was lighter - for me the weight of the 1150 was unacceptable. Looking at my 1200 side by side with my pals 1150, I can see why. The 1150 is more solid, less plasticy (?). But more agricultural.

Neither are serious off road bikes as purchased - they are Chelsea Tractors. But then they get used for road work overwhelmingly, maybe bad roads, but roads nevertheless. In reality, they are both road bikes styled for off road.

I dont attach any significance to the moans about reliability. In part these arise because many new riders have moved from Jap machines, paid a lot more for the 1200, and found it isnt as reliable. Maybe not Ducati bad, but not Jap good either. It also arises because a lot of the bike is new, and inevitably there are teething problems. So what? If you want to avoid this issue, buy Jap or buy an old soon to be phased out model. The 1150 was just as bad when first introduced.

One thing I dont like - and is just as bad with other makes - is the march of technology that leaves the bikes unrepairable outside a BMW dealer. If you do venture into the 3rd world, where will you find someone who can deal with a canbus problem, or adjust the fuel injection or bodge a repacement for the servo etc? I would like to see a version without all these bits and fitted with carbs. Not because the new bits dont work, but because they are (to my mind) car technology not bike.

 

[JohnnyBoxer]

Re: Dear Johnny

You're entitled to your wrong opinion!!

Tell me/us....how many miles have YOU lived with and ridden the R1200GS????

To answer you Bert.................about 200-250 miles on 2 bikes (2004 & 2005 models and one with a Remus)

Not a lot granted, but on a variety of roads and it was enough to form an opinion.

The bike just doesn't cut it for me.............hence why I have chosen not to buy one twice (when it was in the equation)

Good balanced review and response from Mike R

Now Bert..............how many miles have YOU done on 1100/1150 GS's

I've done about 80,000-100,000 miles on oilhead GS's, that have never had to be recovered for mechanical failure and have only had a few warranty issues, only one due to a mechanical problem (oil seal), but it didn't stop the bike from being ridden.

However ALL my riding partners with 1200GS's have broken down with mechanical failures (nothing to do with brakes) that rendered the bikes immobile ..............which has pissed them right off.

 

[Schtum]

One thing I dont like - and is just as bad with other makes - is the march of technology that leaves the bikes unrepairable outside a BMW dealer. If you do venture into the 3rd world, where will you find someone who can deal with a canbus problem, or adjust the fuel injection or bodge a repacement for the servo etc? I would like to see a version without all these bits and fitted with carbs. Not because the new bits dont work, but because they are (to my mind) car technology not bike.

It won't be long before bush mechanics all over the globe have their heads around the new technology. Longing for a return to carburetion is a lost cause. The fuel metering isn't accurate enough to work with a catalsyt and wouldn't pass emissions legislation. Time to update your mind on what qualifies as bike technology.

More importantly, the 1200 is more fun to ride than the 1100 & 1150. End of story.

 

[Spout]

One thing I dont like - and is just as bad with other makes - is the march of technology that leaves the bikes unrepairable outside a BMW dealer. If you do venture into the 3rd world, where will you find someone who can deal with a canbus problem, or adjust the fuel injection or bodge a repacement for the servo etc? I would like to see a version without all these bits and fitted with carbs. Not because the new bits dont work, but because they are (to my mind) car technology not bike.

Amen.