Has the 1200GS lost the GS Plot??

[(RIP) sherpa]

Oh yes!

Adventure? BIG boys toy?

Absolutely right Peter!

Thats why this 'BIG boy' has the last Adventure to come into his dealer already reserved for him complete with SILVER engine !!

Due to be seen on an AT Tour March 2006

sherps

 

[Wraithwrider]

Congrats on the new bike John

Maybe see you next year sometime.

Just as well you're not waiting for a 1200Adv, I'd never keep up then

Peter

 

[MikeP]

I'm still trying to work out what GSness is.

I've owned a couple of air-cooled GS's and now have an 1150 Adventure. I have ridden a 1200GS and ridden more miles in the company of 1200GS's than any other GS model.

They seem to be GS's to me.

I like the 1200.

I like to take the p*ss out of the 1200's of the two owners who I know well enough to do so (I think they know it's just banter).

The 1200GS was an option when I bought my Adv. I thought long and hard about my choice, took some advice, ignored others and agonised long and hard, tempted by the new technology, lighter weight and extra power. I don't regret my choice. It is the bike I wanted for my own reasons. I suspect that 1200GS owners feel the same.

If the GS concept wasn't to evolve, this forum would have about half-a-dozen members debating whether or not to admit ST owners!

 

[Gonzo]

If the GS concept wasn't to evolve, this forum would have about half-a-dozen members debating whether or not to admit ST owners!

And I'd be on a VFR!

This is a bit of a "they don't make 'em like they used to" debate.

I say thank f**k for that 'cos it'd be a bit effing boring if everything stayed the same!

I think it's called, from memory, "progress" and "the 21st century".

 

[Wraithwrider]

Johnnyboxer wrote:

However ALL my riding partners with 1200GS's have broken down with mechanical failures (nothing to do with brakes) that rendered the bikes immobile ..............which has pissed them right off.

Right, the challenge is on, will the Wraith be the first 1200 to travel with Johnny and not be hexed?

Come mid July we will see.

I'll make sure my BWM recovery card is in me wallet.

Peter

 

[FIN_GSer]

R1200GS is the first GS I have. (I used to have R1100RS, K100RT, VFR, CB500.)
During past brake problems with GS I tried to re-organise my head for street bike. (The plan was to abandon GS for good) I tested R1200ST thoroughly. It was typical steer bike, no big difference to my friend's VFR800.
Bad news was : The GS is damn FUN to ride!! conpared to anything I know..

I Think 1200GS is fun bike to ride on asfalt or gravel roads with luggage & pillion.
That is waht I need -> GS is my bike.

FIN_GSer

 

[AdamZ]

Not long at all apparently hence my comment about bush mechanics getting their heads around the "new technology".....

http://www.ross-tech.com/bim-com/comingsoon.html

Hmmm, very interesting and very interesting prices $600 plus your computer. If you cannot trundle your computer to the bike or take your bike to the compter then another $300 for an intelligent cable....

... this is in the reach of all home mechanics

 

[Frisky]

Johnny, got a few bites then

 

[Sergeant Pluck]

I think the true 'GS'ness of these bikes is a bit of a nonsense. Neither of them are true offroad bikes - yet both bikes will take you round the world no problemo, spoked wheels or cast, GPS or maps scribbled on the back of scraps of paper.

The 12 is building on the cult success of the 1150 - and looks like its doing it very well. For me personally (1150 owner, and never even ridden the 12 yet) - I quite like the look of the 12 - and definately like the idea of the extra few bhp's and the weight reduction etc. I'm also swayed by the fact that every one who has ridden them seems to love them. Definately turned off by ABS / Servo / Canbus / BMW only Serving / Special tools etc. Also, to my mind, the 12 lacks the presence of the 1150 and does seem more plasticy - but hey ho - the world moves on. The question is - will I buy one?

To be honest, probably not (famous last words!). The reason is not so much the bike itself, but the manufacturer. The reliability and build quality issues which are well documented on this site bug me - particularly for what is such an expensive bike - but what worries me is BM's complete denial of these problems. To me they are not playing the game. The marketing philosophy BM want us to buy into with the 12GS is go anywhere, rough 'n tough bikers bike etc etc and yet the reality is that the bikes have and do fail and have 'questionable' build quality, but BM seem to be refusing to acknowledge any of these problems (final drives failing? ABS etc failing?) - which is at odds with the whole GS philosophy. At least we all got our rusty fork braces and lowers replaced no questions asked when we had 11xx's! Ducati 999 going wrong the whole time, maybe - 1200GS, no! Have they learned nothing?!

The truth is that 2 years down the line of day in-day out use, I still really love my 1150, and I couldn't bear to part with it yet! It still makes me grin like a tit every time I get on it. In a couple of years time when perhaps I am ready for a new bike - the 12 will definately be on the list but hopefully but that time another manufacturer will have launched a model to rival or even better the GS (which currently seems to exist in a place of its own) as I would love a bike like the GS or better but made by a manufacturer other than BMW.

My (slightly drunken!) 2pc....

 

[Schtum]

Hmmm, very interesting and very interesting prices $600 plus your computer. If you cannot trundle your computer to the bike or take your bike to the compter then another $300 for an intelligent cable....

... this is in the reach of all home mechanics

Where do you get the $600 from...? I've got VAG COM on this 'ere laptop. So far, I haven't registered it but it's only $99 when I do. An OBD cable was about £40 in a bulk buy on the Mk IV Golf forum. So that's £100 all in.

I would expect that ultimately BiM-COM would be available at the same sort of price.

 

[North]

Hi,

I have a 1200 and love it. It was the Adventure model that got me on the BMW path.

Living in a city, most of riding is on good roads, so I got the 1200. With the 1200 I can on logging roads and lite stuff. For anything else I would get a dirt bike. I am not that rich to bang up a 20,000 dollar bike off road. If I was going to South America I would get an Adventure, if I was going to do it on a BMW.

My 1200 is new, so I can not comment on break-downs.

Everything changes for good or bad, bikes too.

North

P.S. I think the Adventure looks better, Its a bad ass bike, you got to love.

 

[JohnnyBoxer]

Re: Oh yes!

Absolutely right Peter!

Thats why this 'BIG boy' has the last Adventure to come into his dealer already reserved for him complete with SILVER engine !!

Due to be seen on an AT Tour March 2006

sherps

Copycat............!!! You saw it here first - John

See you @ Rainbow Open Day tomorrow, no doubt

 

[JohnnyBoxer]

Johnnyboxer wrote:



Right, the challenge is on, will the Wraith be the first 1200 to travel with Johnny and not be hexed?

Come mid July we will see.

I'll make sure my BWM recovery card is in me wallet.

Peter

Pete...............they weren't necessarily travelling with me at the said time of the breakdown.............just people i ride with had experienced trouble with their 1200GS's at some point during ownership

 

[JohnnyBoxer]

Johnny, got a few bites then

For sure...........matey

Thought the Forum has been a bit stale in last couple of weeks and needed a bit of healthy debate

 

[JohnnyBoxer]

I think the true 'GS'ness of these bikes is a bit of a nonsense. Neither of them are true offroad bikes - yet both bikes will take you round the world no problemo, spoked wheels or cast, GPS or maps scribbled on the back of scraps of paper.

The 12 is building on the cult success of the 1150 - and looks like its doing it very well. For me personally (1150 owner, and never even ridden the 12 yet) - I quite like the look of the 12 - and definately like the idea of the extra few bhp's and the weight reduction etc. I'm also swayed by the fact that every one who has ridden them seems to love them. Definately turned off by ABS / Servo / Canbus / BMW only Serving / Special tools etc. Also, to my mind, the 12 lacks the presence of the 1150 and does seem more plasticy - but hey ho - the world moves on. The question is - will I buy one?

To be honest, probably not (famous last words!). The reason is not so much the bike itself, but the manufacturer. The reliability and build quality issues which are well documented on this site bug me - particularly for what is such an expensive bike - but what worries me is BM's complete denial of these problems. To me they are not playing the game. The marketing philosophy BM want us to buy into with the 12GS is go anywhere, rough 'n tough bikers bike etc etc and yet the reality is that the bikes have and do fail and have 'questionable' build quality, but BM seem to be refusing to acknowledge any of these problems (final drives failing? ABS etc failing?) - which is at odds with the whole GS philosophy. At least we all got our rusty fork braces and lowers replaced no questions asked when we had 11xx's! Ducati 999 going wrong the whole time, maybe - 1200GS, no! Have they learned nothing?!

The truth is that 2 years down the line of day in-day out use, I still really love my 1150, and I couldn't bear to part with it yet! It still makes me grin like a tit every time I get on it. In a couple of years time when perhaps I am ready for a new bike - the 12 will definately be on the list but hopefully but that time another manufacturer will have launched a model to rival or even better the GS (which currently seems to exist in a place of its own) as I would love a bike like the GS or better but made by a manufacturer other than BMW.

My (slightly drunken!) 2pc....

Ah................here speaks the voice of reason............spot.... right........ bloody ...........on

 

[aspad]

1200vs 1150

Now been on a number of longish tar/dirt outings with riding partners on 1150 adventures.

They have often had a lot of after market kit on their bikes + knobblies.

I have had a pretty much a standard 12 with DS tyres

The weather was dry and warm each time which I am sure makes a difference especially re tyres...but to all intents and purposes the bikes performed exactly the same in what was some pretty rough going on the dirt at times and also on high speed twisty tar blasts to get to and from.

Sure each bike has its unique character + strengths and weaknesses and maybe we’ve been lucky in not having any mechanical failures of any sort (12K kms on my 12 now and nothing wrong at all)

BUT – the point is that both are within the normal envelope of what GS riding is all about - ie good road and poor dirt road combinations.... both bikes do the job superbly – and IMO the 12 is a worthy successor to the 1150 - it has the same design purpose and heritage and does the job equally competently with some obvious differences.

On all rides we have stuck together at pretty much the same pace and by far the biggest differentiator of performance has been (or would have been if we were trying to race one another) rider skill, and perhaps tyres and not bike design and build...

Also had mixed reactions to the bikes at the biker cafes on the way home...

On the last outing a couple of VFR riders looking at the 1150s said that they were the best looking bikes they had ever seen (re macho criteria at least). I had two 1150 riders from another group ogle the 12 and comment 'that is my next bike...'

Time to move on guys - I know the piss taking is good fun and all on the bulleting board. Interestingly it never gets debated or really even mentioned out on the rides….

 

[GSmonkey]

I rode the 1150, 1150ADV and 1200 before making my decision to go for the 1200. Coming from a jap sportsbike they were all a big revelation, all superb, but the 1200 was simply a better roadbike - as has been said by many independant review.

All these three bikes, relative to my previous Honda are poor in terms of reliability and corrosion. The 1200 has other problems associated with it being a new model - these don't really bother me as an owner as long as BMW put in place a good fix.

Don't forget its all highly subjective. From the japbike riders point of view, we all ride slow, heavy, old fashioned piles of crap

 

[Gas'd Off]

FYI & With thanks to Ride Magazine.
This must say something about the 1200!

 

[GSNOBIT]

Well if you must ask,...I went straight to the last page of this topic and skipped over every single reply submitted. I think it is obvious why.
To all 1st time GSers the 12 will seem the mutt's nuts and the G/S will look like a curiousity, to perhaps add to a static collection down the road if this GS thing works out for them. Sadly most of them will not be aquainted with the spirit of these old friends, sure they had their issues but they did not need sending off to the CERN to get sorted.
I owned R12GS for a whole year, an evolutionary subscription with the GS paradigm, liked what I had experienced thus far. Like alot of people, I had moved on with the times and figured BMW couldn't possibly botch a formula they had so brazenly invented and had brought to such levels of success.
However I feel I was duped by the Uber-marketing gurus that launched this unlikely character. The goal was clearly to rope in as many fence sitters as possible by creating a more generic product with more generic qualities and then mocking it up into some duck-billed lunar dune bike, a looker she is not. It is a formidable machine to be sure but it is a formidable street touring machine that does not mind a bit of grime, but that is it. Don't care to see jpegs of your stunts atop a R12GS ride, Yamaha R1's have gone the long way down to Joberg, Benelli's naked bike just got back from West Africa..., these are stunts just as jumping a 12GS a foot off the ground is a stunt. Telelever/servos/500lbs for dirt... please be serious. Most people who have owned R100's remember how manageable, yes like an old wheelbarrow and up to the task they were when things got tricky. Frankly I view the HP2 as an appology of sorts from BMW to the fan-base at large, for the charlatan that is the R1200GS. If I had known better I would have bought an RT for what I would have ended up using the 12GS for had she stayed. Ironically, after owning 5 GS's the 12 was the one that sent me packing to the KTM 950. It is still a handful but it is a truer GS! I'm banking on the HP2 to bring me back into the fold.

$0.02!

 

[Pint6x]

anyone fancy meeting up for a burn ?

bring your GS of whatever flavour and let's go for a rideout somewhere.

as a late-adopter i would always be one of those who waits for a model to iron out its teething problems before buying one.

I've ridden the 1200GS but prefer the 1150.

My 1st 1150 let me down twice (rusted through rear subframe and snapped alternator vee belt) so they ain't perfect.

Has the 1200 lost any GS-ness ? One could argue both ways:

On the one hand - if anything it's closer to the original ethos than the 1150 because it's lighter and easier to chuck around off road. Every time I see Clive from Reading, his 1200 is filthy from yet another off-road excursion. I suspect he does more off-roading than most 1150 owners.

On the other hand its technical bits mean it's more complicated to repair/service outside a BMW dealer's workshop - this could be viewed as moving away from the GS ethos due to complexity.

I don't do off-roading which is why I'm happier (for the time being) with my 1150, but then I'm a big bloke and I prefer it's solidity.

Each to his own. A GS of any flavour is still ten times more preferable than most other motorcycles

Now who's coming for a burn ?