Heated Sargent seat repair

[mpgscott]

Hi folks,

Anyone know of someone who offers to repair Sargent seats?

I’ve one for my 2011 and it’s open circuit when I test with multimeter.

So looking for someone who can take apart and replace heating element.

Thanks
Mark

 

[Pukmeister]

I took my WC Sargent heated seat apart and used bootlace ferrules to recrimp the breaks in the heating wire. The wire is moulded into the seat foam, it’s a delicate job to expose the element without trashing the foam.

It’s recently failed again (open circuit) and my plan is to buy an inexpensive seat heating kit on eBay (I’ve used one on my Tmax seat) and use the flexible carbon element heating pad from that to fix my Sargent as an overlay pad. The Sargent elements are around 8 Ohms when new. I’ve just ordered a kit for £39.99, I should get it repaired in slow time over the next two weeks between jobs.

FWIW you can buy heating elements and controllers from the UK Sargent importer but they are bloody dear. My LED seat heating controller failed (now obsolete) and cost £170 plus postage to replace with a newer “heat boss” dial controller, then I found the element was also at fault.

As much as I like Sargent seats for comfort, I won’t be buying another.

 

[mpgscott]

Thank

I took my WC Sargent heated seat apart and used bootlace ferrules to recrimp the breaks in the heating wire. The wire is moulded into the seat foam, it’s a delicate job to expose the element without trashing the foam.

It’s recently failed again (open circuit) and my plan is to buy an inexpensive seat heating kit on eBay (I’ve used one on my Tmax seat) and use the flexible carbon element heating pad from that to fix my Sargent as an overlay pad. The Sargent elements are around 8 Ohms when new. I’ve just ordered a kit for £39.99, I should get it repaired in slow time over the next two weeks between jobs.

FWIW you can buy heating elements and controllers from the UK Sargent importer but they are bloody dear. My LED seat heating controller failed (now obsolete) and cost £170 plus postage to replace with a newer “heat boss” dial controller, then I found the element was also at fault.

As much as I like Sargent seats for comfort, I won’t be buying another.

Thanks for this, any chance you can give the link for which you got?

Cheers
Mark

 

[Pukmeister]

Heated Seat Element Retrofit Kit for Motorcycle Bike Scooter 2 level 12v | eBay UK

Carbon heated seat retrofit kit for motor bike. The item already cut the shape and size for most of motorcycle or scooter. the pad only needs to connect two wires for 12v DC power. Any modified product such as painted sensors will void the warranty.

ebay.us

I only want it for the heat pad, I have previously fitted one of these two-stage kits to my old Tmax and it’s bloody good.

 

[mpgscott]

Heated Seat Element Retrofit Kit for Motorcycle Bike Scooter 2 level 12v | eBay UK

Carbon heated seat retrofit kit for motor bike. The item already cut the shape and size for most of motorcycle or scooter. the pad only needs to connect two wires for 12v DC power. Any modified product such as painted sensors will void the warranty.

ebay.us

I only want it for the heat pad, I have previously fitted one of these two-stage kits to my old Tmax and it’s bloody good.

Heated Seat Element Retrofit Kit for Motorcycle Bike Scooter 2 level 12v | eBay UK

Carbon heated seat retrofit kit for motor bike. The item already cut the shape and size for most of motorcycle or scooter. the pad only needs to connect two wires for 12v DC power. Any modified product such as painted sensors will void the warranty.

ebay.us

I only want it for the heat pad, I have previously fitted one of these two-stage kits to my old Tmax and it’s bloody good.

Wonder if that will work with the variable heat controller that I have already?

Did you use your existing controller?

Do the seats just go back with staples?

 

[Pukmeister]

Does your variable heat controller have the red/blue vertical LED bar graph, or just a rotary dial? Mine was the former, but it dimmed and then died whilst riding through a deluge in Belgium. These are now obsolete/superseded by the dial design.

The heat pad allegedly draws a maximum of 1.5 amps dc, via a two step switched relay (presumably just an inline resistor).

My understanding (via multimeter measurements) is the Sargent heat boss controller just varies the output voltage up to a maximum 12 volts dc so it should have finer control than a two stage relay but not exceed the maximum voltage the seat pad can cope with.

I will bench test the eBay heat pad with the Sargent heat boss controller prior to reassembling my seat foam and then use my air stapler to fit the cover. I hope it works well, if not I’ve wasted £40 and will need to fix the broken Sargent element again or replace it.

First I have to cut and glue some vinyl strip with contact adhesive to the seat cover underside edges to repair/reinforce the existing tattered staple holes otherwise it may tear apart like a postage stamp. New seat covers from Sargent are prohibitively costly (like everything) so I prefer to repair if I can.

 

[mpgscott]

Does your variable heat controller have the red/blue vertical LED bar graph, or just a rotary dial? Mine was the former, but it dimmed and then died whilst riding through a deluge in Belgium. These are now obsolete/superseded by the dial design.

The heat pad allegedly draws a maximum of 1.5 amps dc, via a two step switched relay (presumably just an inline resistor).

My understanding (via multimeter measurements) is the Sargent heat boss controller just varies the output voltage up to a maximum 12 volts dc so it should have finer control than a two stage relay but not exceed the maximum voltage the seat pad can cope with.

I will bench test the eBay heat pad with the Sargent heat boss controller prior to reassembling my seat foam and then use my air stapler to fit the cover. I hope it works well, if not I’ve wasted £40 and will need to fix the broken Sargent element again or replace it.

First I have to cut and glue some vinyl strip with contact adhesive to the seat cover underside edges to repair/reinforce the existing tattered staple holes otherwise it may tear apart like a postage stamp. New seat covers from Sargent are prohibitively costly (like everything) so I prefer to repair if I can.

Le us know how you get on, Ive an air compressor stapler also.

Mines the dial controller so be good to see how you get on.

I contacted Sargent and they said that the element is built into the foam, so it’s $250 plus $50 labour to repair. They will do me a new heated seat for $428.96 which I think I will go for when I’m next in states.

I might as well get one of the elements and try it, so first keen to see how you get on.

Cheers
Mark

 

[Pukmeister]

Le us know how you get on, Ive an air compressor stapler also.

Mines the dial controller so be good to see how you get on.

I contacted Sargent and they said that the element is built into the foam, so it’s $250 plus $50 labour to repair. They will do me a new heated seat for $428.96 which I think I will go for when I’m next in states.

I might as well get one of the elements and try it, so first keen to see how you get on.

Cheers
Mark

No problem, once I get the kit I will see if it works and let you know.

Don’t ever let anyone strap down your bike across the heated seat, such as ferry companies or bike transport agents. I bought my seat used and found it had been damaged so I had to repair it. Having paid extra for a heated seat I wasn’t exactly a happy bunny.

 

[mpgscott]

No problem, once I get the kit I will see if it works and let you know.

Don’t ever let anyone strap down your bike across the heated seat, such as ferry companies or bike transport agents. I bought my seat used and found it had been damaged so I had to repair it. Having paid extra for a heated seat I wasn’t exactly a happy bunny.

Yes, good point and I’m using the ferry pretty often.

I’ll pull the current seat apart and have a look. Was it quite obvious your break in the connections did you happen to take pics of it?

Thanks for the help, much appreciated..

 

[Pukmeister]

I found the breaks by methodically exposing the heater wire within the foam (being careful to ensure it could be reglued back together) and checking continuity end to end in sections until I found the breaks, pretty much one under each testicle in the “groin” area of the seat padding as it happens. This was where a ferry strap had previously pinched the seat.

I then unravelled each coiled end of the fine heating wire (it’s spiralled around a “rope” core of some kind of insulating material) and slid two broken ends together inside the metal sleeve of a tiny bootlace ferrule before crimping it together again for a solid mechanical wire spliced joint.

 

[Pukmeister]

Here’s some pics of my 1250 seat in bits to give you an idea of the previous repair I did in 2022.
(This time I'm hoping to just add an overlayer carbon type heating pad to the base foam, I can't be arsed to go destroying the foam again to try and repair a nickel heating wire.)

First pic is after repair showing 8.7 Ohms resistance across the heating element.

Second pic shows the exact points of wire breakage.

Third pic shows a small bootlace ferrule which I trimmed into a metal sleeve and crimped the wire ends together with, you can just make out the two ends of the fine heating wire in the picture if you look closely.

I doubt a solder joint would be a repair solution due to heat and flexing. The nickel heating wire is spiral wrapped around a teflon rope core, so can be unwound and extended to form a butt joint for splicing/crimping.


Note how the blue seat foam has been carefully teased apart from the teflon layer beneath in stages as necessary rather than just being ripped apart and destroyed. Take your time peeling it apart with your finger tips, don't just hack away at it.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[mpgscott]

Good job, shoot that’s different to how I envisaged it to be. How did you guess at the bits just by assuming it’s the points ratchet strap would have gone over?

Good job, I’m going to wait and hopefully hear from you with regards fitting the new element.

Cheers and good luck with the next repair.

Mark

 

[Pukmeister]

I didn’t guess, I shaved away a little insulation here and there and probed for continuity using the half-split method of circuit testing until the break(s) were evident.

Bloody DPD missed me this afternoon with my seat heater kit delivery, otherwise I would be testing it out this evening.

 

[Pukmeister]

Three failed delivery attempts by DPD, I wish they’d just place the parcel behind my wheelie bin.

 

[Pukmeister]

So I just got the parcel and the new heat pad is a perfect size but unlike the Sargent element that is two-wire and 8 Ohms, the carbon fibre element is three wire (two-stage wiring) at 16 Ohms across one stage and 31 Ohms across the other. One is common ground, a relay switches the 12V feed between the other two wires for low/high heat. Unsure yet if the higher resistance is due to an inline resistor or more heating windings, some testing needed.

Looking at the wiring as best I can tell, it switches between the two circuits via the relay (which I will test later). I may end up just wiring whichever wire the full heating circuit is across the Sargent heat boss controller and testing it/measuring the amp draw which is supposedly 1.5 Amps.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Pukmeister]

A bit of further testing using a 9v battery, the full heat mode puts voltage on the centre wire which is the 16 Ohm circuit, the low heat circuit is the other wire at 31 ohms so there must be a blocking resistor in the circuit somewhere to reduce its power output.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[mpgscott]

A bit of further testing using a 9v battery, the full heat mode puts voltage on the centre wire which is the 16 Ohm circuit, the low heat circuit is the other wire at 31 ohms so there must be a blocking resistor in the circuit somewhere to reduce its power output.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Dash it, so we won’t be able to use the variable setting of the Sargent controller as I believe it’s simply adjusting the voltage.

Or you thinking as long as you use the high voltage side and the common then varying the voltage may give more adjustment?

I’m not sure what the correct resistance would be on a working Sargent seat if I’m honest.

Keep us posted looks good..

 

[Fifth Horseman]

Looking at the pad it looks like there are two heating element circuits, left and right, 16 ohms each . These would be switched between series and parallel operation by the relay giving you either an 8 ohm or 32 ohm resistance, which tracks with the quotes 1.5A max current.
Full heat would connect one leg the supply (+ve) to the outer two wires together and the other leg (-ve) to the centre.
Low heat would be connecting the supply to the outer two wires only.

 

[mpgscott]

Well I had a go at mine tonight, I was unlucky I had a damaged section of wire. The bad section kept reading Meg ohms. So removed a section around 6” long and used my trusty solder seal connectors. With these you twist the wires then some heat shrink and solder help to tie all together.

I don’t think these will cause any issues and run it up tonight for half an hour and it was all fine.

So end resistance across the Sargent seat connector was 13.9 ohms so all good.

Now just need to staple the leathers seat cover in place. Out of interest @

Pukmeister​

What size staple did you use?

I thought I had a stapler but it’s the enclosed type heavy duty

 

[Pukmeister]

The staples in my air stapler are quite small, it’s a bit late now but if I remember tomorrow after work I’ll check in my garage and reply.

Glad you have the electrics now sorted. A bit of high temperature upholstery trim fix spray and it will be as good as new.