Help needed with importing routes basecamp/zumo 390
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The Grey One
Registered user
Opinion is a wonderful thing! With both Basecamp and Mapsource you have the option to use both waypoints and shaping or via points. Waypoints are places you tell the device you must go to, so your destination or a meeting point along the way. Via points on the other hand are a guide for your device to help it follow your instructions. Leaning the difference will make sense of how the device reacts.
I use Mapsource and normally input my start and finish as waypoints and then allow Mapsource to suggest a route. I can then drag and drop to make the route follow the roads I want. Doing this in Mapsource automatically makes all these points as via points. It has the handy function of showing those occasions where I miss the actual road by turning the mark into a green dot. I can then go back, zoom in and adjust the point to suit. No doubt Basecamp users can do likewise. The fact is you as a user can decide as to a point Being a waypoint or a via point.
Good to hear that Garmin have given up implying that the newer devices won't work with Mapsource. Last time I spoke to them (about 2 years ago) I was told that they knew of no complaints about Basecamp and that the latest devices only worked with Basecamp. This I already knew to be untrue as I had been telling guest at our hotel how to make a Nav V work with Mapsource for some time.
John
I think there will be many people who will disagree with your first point reference, ignoring shaping points using basecamp. and even though i do not own one of these units i would find it hard to believe that statement, someone will no doubt put us right.
You are correct! I will have to back peddle on this one.
I have just conducted a test myself and created a 1 mile route and re-shaped it both with BaseCamp and MapSource. Both worked with a simulated test.
I fecked up all this time!!!
I've been creating routes using waypoints to shape the route so the Nav V HAS been doing it's own thing between the waypoints (and so it should).
A bit of route shaping (without the waypoints) and voila!
Sorry to all for being a bit retarded and FU to Garmin for feeding me with bollocks. I apologise.
I have just conducted a test myself and created a 1 mile route and re-shaped it both with BaseCamp and MapSource. Both worked with a simulated test.
I fecked up all this time!!!
I've been creating routes using waypoints to shape the route so the Nav V HAS been doing it's own thing between the waypoints (and so it should).
A bit of route shaping (without the waypoints) and voila!
Sorry to all for being a bit retarded and FU to Garmin for feeding me with bollocks. I apologise.
No need to apologise, this just goes to show the importance of learning to use what you have got to work with, although it does go to show how you can be sent up the garden path the wrong way, even from bods you would expect to know better.
There are people on this forum with a wealth of experience, and i do not think any of them would knowingly give false information, infact i would imagine they would just say i dont know and possibly find the answer than to give false information.
There are people on this forum with a wealth of experience, and i do not think any of them would knowingly give false information, infact i would imagine they would just say i dont know and possibly find the answer than to give false information.
iand46
Registered user
There are some excellent tutorial vids on YouTube for BaseCamp. Also these are very good
http://www.newenglandriders.org/Learn_BaseCamp_PC.pdf
http://www.newenglandriders.org/Learn_BaseCamp_MAC.pdf
http://www.newenglandriders.org/Learn_BaseCamp_PC.pdf
http://www.newenglandriders.org/Learn_BaseCamp_MAC.pdf
I'm the sort of guy that reads the manual when I get stuck or phones the maker.
I won't be phoning the maker again, that's for sure.
As for the links, many thanks. I did actually have them in my bookmarks but finding the time to read a novel.....blah.....blah.....blah. Looks like I'll have to find time.
Thanks again all and sorry for passing on BS. Big lesson learnt. Buy a TomTom. /joke
I won't be phoning the maker again, that's for sure.
As for the links, many thanks. I did actually have them in my bookmarks but finding the time to read a novel.....blah.....blah.....blah. Looks like I'll have to find time.
Thanks again all and sorry for passing on BS. Big lesson learnt. Buy a TomTom. /joke
You did the right thing by asking on here.
I am on a full lap of Germany with two friends, using routes between overnight stops and routes for days out that I created. When I created the routes and ran the routes, I used:
1. A Mac
2. BaseCamp
3. A Nav V GPS device
4. The last but one set of maps. The new maps came out just before I left but I didn't load them
I create my routes in motorcycle mode in BaseCamp
In BaseCamp on my Mac AND on my device I have ALL the settings / pretences (whether in car mode or motorbike mode) set identically. These setting / preferences are set to: Avoid U-turns, avoid unmade roads and use the fastest time. I have off route recalculation set to prompted; in other words I (and not my device) will choose whether to allow a recalculation.
We are now some six nights into our jaunt with a total distance covered since leaving home of about 1,000 miles. Of that distance, I woukd guess that about 450 has been on motorways (basically Calais to Lubeck) and 550 (Lubrck > Stralsund > Ruglsnd > Straksund > Berlin) on a good mixture of major, intermediate and minor roads. In short, a pretty good work-out for the routes' creation, their transfer to my device and their subsequent running. I am happy report that everything has behaved faultlessly.
My two friends I shared my routes with also have Macs running BaseCamp but are using the latest Garmin based maps. They are both using the latest generation Garmin GPS devices, the equivalent of the Nav V, I forget the model number. Besides their maps being one generation younger than mine, their Mac and their devices' preferences are set up differently to mine. They set theirs up as:
A. In car mode: Allow motorways, avoid U-tuns, avoid unmade roads, fastest time
B. In motorbike mode: Avoid motorways, avoid U-turns, avoid unmade roads, fastest time
As you'll see, besides the basic one generational difference in the maps, there is one very fundamental difference in the pretence set-up.... The avoidance of motorways when in motorbike mode.
Our first little journey was from Calais to St Omer, a short hop straight down. I created this route by the very simple method of highlighting the Chunnel exit and hotel points in BaseCamp and asking the software to create me a route between them. In short, a route A to B. BaseCamp created it, based on my preferences, straight along the motorway for about 20 minutes, then into St Omer's streets and to our hotel's front door. Happy with this, I did not bother to add any shaping points of my own. My device ran the route faultlessly. My two friends did not turn their devices on, so we have no way of knowing what theirs might have done.
On the second day, it was a straightforward motorway bash St Omer to Arnhem, in Holland. Again, I created this route A to B, with no shaping points in between; I was happy with the one offered up by BaseCamp on my Mac. My device ran it perfectly. My two friends ran my route their devices but it ran very differently. Theirs kept them off the motorway, not surprisingly as their pretence setting was always to avoid motorways in motorcycle mode. An easy thing to spot and work out why.
For the next day, again it was a motorway bash A to B, Arnhem to Hamburg. My friends, realising the the settings problem switched their two devices from motorcycle mode to car mode, which allows them - according to their settings - motorway usage. In theory, this should allow them to follow my route A to B. It didn't, it still wanted them to come off the motorway, despite their transport mode being car, which in their preference settings, allows motorway usage. I was stumped as to why. It was very unlikely to be the generational difference in the maps, their car setting (albeit used on a motorbike) allowed motorways, so why didn't their two devices follow my simple A to B route? Suddenly a light came on in my head.....
As I have all my settings, whether I am in car mode or motorcycle mode, set identically on my Mac and on my device (see above). I always create all my routes - whether for use in the car or on my bike - in motorcycle mode; as there is no difference in my settings, I might as well just leave it all in motorcycle mode. This appears on my Mac as a motorbike symbol against the route name. My friends' devices, despite being in car mode (which allows motorways) picked up that the route had been created by me in a motorcycle mode. Their devices, re-set the route according to their motorcycle preference of avoiding motorways, overriding the car mode setting they had selected, with the inevitable result.... Their two devices routed them off the motorway.
Once I realised what was happening I simply altered both their devices' preference settings to the same as mine and all has been well ever since.
Of course it is easy to criticise Garmin for allowing such fundamental alterations to occur. But, that ignores the value that preference settings allow individual users (who have spent a lot of money, we are often reminded) to tailor their devices to suite their very personal tastes; see lots of posts on 'I always set my device to avoid motorways, who wants to use motorways?'. Similarly, it is easy to critisise me for not putting shaping points along the motorway to force a shared route along. But, that ignores that to me, the creator of the simple A to B route, it looks fine. It also ignores that, between however many shaping points I might have put in, my friends' two devices would very probably have still routed them away from the motorway between the points if it were at all posdible.
So, chaos, before blaming every fault on expensive Garmin devices (and on BaseCamp) look to your settings and pretences first.
PS Once we had all three devices set the same, everything has gone really well with my two friends' running of all my routes. Mine, on my device, has worked well from day one anyway. Just one tiny difference now exists between us. Occaisionaly, their devices might route them down a slightly different road, for instance taking the first on the left in a town not the second. I suspect that this us nothing more than their maps sometimes being very slightly different to mine, which allows their devices to make a slight amendment.
1. A Mac
2. BaseCamp
3. A Nav V GPS device
4. The last but one set of maps. The new maps came out just before I left but I didn't load them
I create my routes in motorcycle mode in BaseCamp
In BaseCamp on my Mac AND on my device I have ALL the settings / pretences (whether in car mode or motorbike mode) set identically. These setting / preferences are set to: Avoid U-turns, avoid unmade roads and use the fastest time. I have off route recalculation set to prompted; in other words I (and not my device) will choose whether to allow a recalculation.
We are now some six nights into our jaunt with a total distance covered since leaving home of about 1,000 miles. Of that distance, I woukd guess that about 450 has been on motorways (basically Calais to Lubeck) and 550 (Lubrck > Stralsund > Ruglsnd > Straksund > Berlin) on a good mixture of major, intermediate and minor roads. In short, a pretty good work-out for the routes' creation, their transfer to my device and their subsequent running. I am happy report that everything has behaved faultlessly.
My two friends I shared my routes with also have Macs running BaseCamp but are using the latest Garmin based maps. They are both using the latest generation Garmin GPS devices, the equivalent of the Nav V, I forget the model number. Besides their maps being one generation younger than mine, their Mac and their devices' preferences are set up differently to mine. They set theirs up as:
A. In car mode: Allow motorways, avoid U-tuns, avoid unmade roads, fastest time
B. In motorbike mode: Avoid motorways, avoid U-turns, avoid unmade roads, fastest time
As you'll see, besides the basic one generational difference in the maps, there is one very fundamental difference in the pretence set-up.... The avoidance of motorways when in motorbike mode.
Our first little journey was from Calais to St Omer, a short hop straight down. I created this route by the very simple method of highlighting the Chunnel exit and hotel points in BaseCamp and asking the software to create me a route between them. In short, a route A to B. BaseCamp created it, based on my preferences, straight along the motorway for about 20 minutes, then into St Omer's streets and to our hotel's front door. Happy with this, I did not bother to add any shaping points of my own. My device ran the route faultlessly. My two friends did not turn their devices on, so we have no way of knowing what theirs might have done.
On the second day, it was a straightforward motorway bash St Omer to Arnhem, in Holland. Again, I created this route A to B, with no shaping points in between; I was happy with the one offered up by BaseCamp on my Mac. My device ran it perfectly. My two friends ran my route their devices but it ran very differently. Theirs kept them off the motorway, not surprisingly as their pretence setting was always to avoid motorways in motorcycle mode. An easy thing to spot and work out why.
For the next day, again it was a motorway bash A to B, Arnhem to Hamburg. My friends, realising the the settings problem switched their two devices from motorcycle mode to car mode, which allows them - according to their settings - motorway usage. In theory, this should allow them to follow my route A to B. It didn't, it still wanted them to come off the motorway, despite their transport mode being car, which in their preference settings, allows motorway usage. I was stumped as to why. It was very unlikely to be the generational difference in the maps, their car setting (albeit used on a motorbike) allowed motorways, so why didn't their two devices follow my simple A to B route? Suddenly a light came on in my head.....
As I have all my settings, whether I am in car mode or motorcycle mode, set identically on my Mac and on my device (see above). I always create all my routes - whether for use in the car or on my bike - in motorcycle mode; as there is no difference in my settings, I might as well just leave it all in motorcycle mode. This appears on my Mac as a motorbike symbol against the route name. My friends' devices, despite being in car mode (which allows motorways) picked up that the route had been created by me in a motorcycle mode. Their devices, re-set the route according to their motorcycle preference of avoiding motorways, overriding the car mode setting they had selected, with the inevitable result.... Their two devices routed them off the motorway.
Once I realised what was happening I simply altered both their devices' preference settings to the same as mine and all has been well ever since.
Of course it is easy to criticise Garmin for allowing such fundamental alterations to occur. But, that ignores the value that preference settings allow individual users (who have spent a lot of money, we are often reminded) to tailor their devices to suite their very personal tastes; see lots of posts on 'I always set my device to avoid motorways, who wants to use motorways?'. Similarly, it is easy to critisise me for not putting shaping points along the motorway to force a shared route along. But, that ignores that to me, the creator of the simple A to B route, it looks fine. It also ignores that, between however many shaping points I might have put in, my friends' two devices would very probably have still routed them away from the motorway between the points if it were at all posdible.
So, chaos, before blaming every fault on expensive Garmin devices (and on BaseCamp) look to your settings and pretences first.
PS Once we had all three devices set the same, everything has gone really well with my two friends' running of all my routes. Mine, on my device, has worked well from day one anyway. Just one tiny difference now exists between us. Occaisionaly, their devices might route them down a slightly different road, for instance taking the first on the left in a town not the second. I suspect that this us nothing more than their maps sometimes being very slightly different to mine, which allows their devices to make a slight amendment.
Quote Wapping (however many shaping points I might have put in, my friends' two devices would very probably have still routed them away from the motorway between the points if it were at all posdible.) do you really think so? it would be interesting to test this, for example a route down a stretch of motorway with say 3 or 4 exits on the stretch, plot the route using many shaping points along the motorway stretch, with attention to inbetween off and on ramps, and just see if it stays the route, i would be very surprised if it didnt, no matter what preferences were set.
The Grey One
Registered user
I agree, it is possible to do this, just a lot of work on a longer route making sure that the device had no option but to follow the intended route. As Wapping found just setting everyone's device to the same settings solves the problem anyway. I like the option of preference and avoidance settings it makes creating route so much easier. I don't have to put in points to instruct the device to avoid unpaved roads for instance.
John
I have been told by friends, following me along a motorway that that is what their devices told them to do. They also had the 'windy roads' option selected. Naturaly, I have no idea what other nonsense / settings they had set-up and / or if indeed they really understood what their device was telling them to do.
Of course it's quite possible that a device will not instruct a rider to leave at an exit, head off down other roads and then rejoin if, for instance, there are no alternative roads available to achieve it.
I am in no great rush to find out.
I fully understand the reasoning behind the way that you do it John, and agree that for yourself its the best way, and it works, and you have no problems sharing routes the way you do.
Richard i wasnt implying, that their or even your nav was not sending you off the motorway when a simple a to b route is inputed with very few shaping/via/ or waypoints, i was merley wondering whether it would do the same if the route had enough points to maybe stop it, no matter what the settings and preferences were. its just me being curious about how things work.
Richard i wasnt implying, that their or even your nav was not sending you off the motorway when a simple a to b route is inputed with very few shaping/via/ or waypoints, i was merley wondering whether it would do the same if the route had enough points to maybe stop it, no matter what the settings and preferences were. its just me being curious about how things work.
No problem, at all.
I checked with my two friends.
Using the motorway A to B route, Arnhem to Hamburg - which had few (if any) shaping points in it - my friends' two devices, which were at the time set to avoid motorways, did indeed try their best to route my two friends off the mototorway at each and every junction. I am left with the only conclusion that had I of placed just a couple of shaping points, widely spaced on the motorway, then the same would have happened.
I am also left believing that, had I placed more shaping points before and after each junction on the same motorway, my friends' devices would have had no option but to take the motorway route, irrespective that their two devices were set to avoid motorways.
Preferences and routing options are great, no question about it. Similarly, bods who have their devices create routes for them and rely on recalculation (why not, the initial calculation was made for them by the device) will find them useful, too. Likewise, bods who rarely if ever share routes with anyone, should - once they understand what preference settings do - have few problems. Bod's who receive routes from third parties should just check (and check again) that the route their device is offering up meets their expectations. If it does great, all will be well. If it doesn't then instead of a knee jerk 'Garimin is crap, BMW sat navs are crap, BaseCamp is crap' they should maybe take a moment to consider if perhaps it is they - and nobody / nothing else - who has landed them in the poo. In short, get to learn your GPS.
A solution might be for any routes shared, include a little pop up that displays what preferences were used by the original creator of the route, thus allowing the importer to either have the route altered to match his preferences,m or even better a different temp profile with said settings to be created...now there's a thought
Sent from my SM-G920F using Tapatalk
Sent from my SM-G920F using Tapatalk
The easiest solution is to share pre-planned routes as tracks. Tracks, when imported into another person's device, are not altered. Nor are they altered if the track is then converted into a route. But, I think even that suggestion might have a problem or two:
1. I am not sure that tracks can include waypoints. So, if say everyone was meant to stop at a specific restaurant for lunch, that location would not be included.
2. I am not sure what happens to a route created from a track is then deviated from and a recalution takes place. I can only assume that the recalculation might well alter the route based on the third party's preferences. If so, we are back to square one again.
What might be an idea would be for Garmin to allow the exporting of shared routes as 'Read only' files, ie. that the data cannot be altered by a third party. However, I am not sure that a third party (who might well panic if they went off route) would be that happy if they were unable to have their auto-recalculate turned on.
Easiest of all is for bods to use their GPS devices and learn what they can and cannot do. Not least, to learn the importance of settings and preferences. The only real way to learn properly is by using the devices for an extended period, not just on a journey A to B once or twice a year. People can moan that they shouldn't have to learn; perhaps they'd like to learn to use a map, paper, pencil and maybe even a compass instead? Nor is it a great idea to expect a very simple - but sometimes quite complicated (because it can do lots of different things, as that is what people have demanded) - device to be fully understood five minutes after setting off on a jaunt for the first time. A bit less time faffing about with music and getting a phone to pair, just so they can speak to their mum, might be time better spent finding out how to work their GPS navigational device, which is really what they bought the damned expensive thing for in the first place.... As they don't do maps, mate.
No doubt the vast majority of users only ever use their GPS to get them from A to B, rarely - if ever - running a third party's route. These huge numbers of people are perfectly happy that Garmin have given then a device that will, with absolute certainty, keep them off every motorway between Helsinki and Lisbon via Dublin and Athens. That it will also guide them alonong 'Windy roads' is just a bonus; that the 'twisty' is sometimes a string of roundabouts or a city's back streets is just something for them to moan about in the pub with likeminded souls.
1. I am not sure that tracks can include waypoints. So, if say everyone was meant to stop at a specific restaurant for lunch, that location would not be included.
2. I am not sure what happens to a route created from a track is then deviated from and a recalution takes place. I can only assume that the recalculation might well alter the route based on the third party's preferences. If so, we are back to square one again.
What might be an idea would be for Garmin to allow the exporting of shared routes as 'Read only' files, ie. that the data cannot be altered by a third party. However, I am not sure that a third party (who might well panic if they went off route) would be that happy if they were unable to have their auto-recalculate turned on.
Easiest of all is for bods to use their GPS devices and learn what they can and cannot do. Not least, to learn the importance of settings and preferences. The only real way to learn properly is by using the devices for an extended period, not just on a journey A to B once or twice a year. People can moan that they shouldn't have to learn; perhaps they'd like to learn to use a map, paper, pencil and maybe even a compass instead? Nor is it a great idea to expect a very simple - but sometimes quite complicated (because it can do lots of different things, as that is what people have demanded) - device to be fully understood five minutes after setting off on a jaunt for the first time. A bit less time faffing about with music and getting a phone to pair, just so they can speak to their mum, might be time better spent finding out how to work their GPS navigational device, which is really what they bought the damned expensive thing for in the first place.... As they don't do maps, mate.
No doubt the vast majority of users only ever use their GPS to get them from A to B, rarely - if ever - running a third party's route. These huge numbers of people are perfectly happy that Garmin have given then a device that will, with absolute certainty, keep them off every motorway between Helsinki and Lisbon via Dublin and Athens. That it will also guide them alonong 'Windy roads' is just a bonus; that the 'twisty' is sometimes a string of roundabouts or a city's back streets is just something for them to moan about in the pub with likeminded souls.
The Grey One
Registered user
What seems to be being missed in all this discussion on transferring routes is the simple fact of just what information is sent. As far as I can see the info sent is simply the points along a route. So for a simple route there will be a start and end point plus any via or waypoints inserted. The magenta line showing the resulting route is not part of the transfer. Each device then uses this data, with reference to it's settings,to create the route. The resulting route may then differ from that planned on Basecamp or Mapsource because of the use of preferences and avoidances set on that device. This effect can be mitigated or entirely eliminated by having multiple via points along the route thereby forcing the device to follow the intended roads regardless of conflicting settings. Wappings suggestion of using tracks works because tracks already have multiple points all along the intended route.
Once the issue of just what is transferred is understood the cause most of the supposed problems becomes clear. Each device will calculate a route according to the instructions it has been given (preferences and avoidances) by joining the dots to create the actual route. In plotting a route we each need to decide how important it is to use a particular stretch of road. If we just want to get from A to B we can let the device decide based on settings we have chosen. If we want a specific route we have to put in a little effort. By careful placement of via points we can ensure that the device will follow the intended route exactly. Using avoidances sensibly removes the need to insert extra points to prevent the device calculating that using say, a motorway or unmade road will be a better option.
Another point to remember is that when we create a waypoint or via point on our map we have marked a point in space. That point may or may not correspond to a certain road or feature. If the map used to locate our waypoint is not accurate then using such a point on a different map (which also may not be accurate) could cause problems. I almost always use OSM maps as I find them more detailed and accurate than the Garmin versions but if I switch from OSM maps to Garmin I always recalculate the route and check for errors. Often a road is in a slightly different place which could lead to my point being off the road or on the wrong side of a dual carriageway. It makes sense to use the same maps for planning as you are using for the device which is why I never bother with Google maps etc.
As Wapping says the key is to learn how the device works. No amount of complaining or ranting will get a result. Experiment with it, plan routes and test them, we live in a relatively safe country, no harm will come to you if it goes pear shaped.
John
Once the issue of just what is transferred is understood the cause most of the supposed problems becomes clear. Each device will calculate a route according to the instructions it has been given (preferences and avoidances) by joining the dots to create the actual route. In plotting a route we each need to decide how important it is to use a particular stretch of road. If we just want to get from A to B we can let the device decide based on settings we have chosen. If we want a specific route we have to put in a little effort. By careful placement of via points we can ensure that the device will follow the intended route exactly. Using avoidances sensibly removes the need to insert extra points to prevent the device calculating that using say, a motorway or unmade road will be a better option.
Another point to remember is that when we create a waypoint or via point on our map we have marked a point in space. That point may or may not correspond to a certain road or feature. If the map used to locate our waypoint is not accurate then using such a point on a different map (which also may not be accurate) could cause problems. I almost always use OSM maps as I find them more detailed and accurate than the Garmin versions but if I switch from OSM maps to Garmin I always recalculate the route and check for errors. Often a road is in a slightly different place which could lead to my point being off the road or on the wrong side of a dual carriageway. It makes sense to use the same maps for planning as you are using for the device which is why I never bother with Google maps etc.
As Wapping says the key is to learn how the device works. No amount of complaining or ranting will get a result. Experiment with it, plan routes and test them, we live in a relatively safe country, no harm will come to you if it goes pear shaped.
John
Or forget all this complexity and use motogoloco.....so simple, easy to share, uses google maps as a base.
The Grey One
Registered user
Then you are back to using different (inferior in my opinion) maps for planning and your device. Route planning in Mapsource is very simple. If you wish you can use the route tool to click on one location and simply click on another. It creates a route between these two points. You can then drag and drop to adjust the route to suit. As simple as any system out there and you are planning on the maps your device will be using thereby removing possible errors.
John
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