Ain't that the truth! The only time I have had a grovelling apology from an insurance company was when some clerk tried to avoid a claim by applying an exclusion clause in one section of a policy against a completely separate section of the policy.
HELP WITH INSURANCE COMPANY
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Ain't that the truth! The only time I have had a grovelling apology from an insurance company was when some clerk tried to avoid a claim by applying an exclusion clause in one section of a policy against a completely separate section of the policy.
OK, so that is becoming a lot clearer.
Now to try to help you some more.
Do you have an 'agreed value' policy? Yes or no?
If yes, I am surprised as they are not common (see the Ombudsman webpage link, for that and other useful hints and tips).
If yes, what made you chose that type of policy and then chose a value of £5,400?
If, no:
How did you find out that the assessor valued your written off vehicle at £6000?
Do you have the assessor's valuation in writing?
By chance, do you have a six hundred pound deductible on your policy?
Have you done any investigation into whether £5,400 is a fair market replacement value for your written off bike? Don't just say, "Well I would like six grand...." I am sure you would. And I am equally sure you would probably like seven or eight, too; but that is not going to happen.
If five four is fair and you can replace the bike with one similar for that kind of money, take it. If you really cannot then you have got to get into negotiation with your insurer.... but do some homework first on comparative prices. You may like to look in the http://www.ukgser.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=225 section, where you will find a thread where we helped a bod get a better payout for his beaten up old jollopy... it's called haggling....
....insurers are not charitable organisations but they are not the ogres some people make them out to be either. Consumer and simple contract law stacks in the customer's favour 99 times out of 100.
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PS Vastly over valuing your next bike will not help you one jot.
Insurers are not stupid. They have one simple contractual obligation, established over about three hundred years of insuring things: To put you back into the same position that you were in, one second before the claim occurred.
They can do that one of two ways:
(i) Pay you cash, equal to the amount it will cost you to buy another near enough identical vehicle.
Most often, they select this option as it is obviously the most cost effective and quickest for both the customer and the insurer. Vehicles are traded in garages and privately every minute of the day, so it is easy to establish a market price for just about any vehicle on the road. A 1200GSA is no exception.
(ii) Buy the vehicle for you. This is time consuming as the insurer will never be quite sure EXACTLY what the original vehicle looked like and they have to trawl the length and breadth of the country to find it.
The final option though is theirs to chose, not yours.
They will not pay you ten grand if the real cost to them (and you) to put it right is only four..... Odd as that may seem.
I had a similar situation (apart from the off being my own fault - no other parties involved) I had got the bike after passing my test in November - a grand time to buy a bike. Insured for what I had paid £3800(naive I know!), the following year, I renewed my insurance and guessed that the value had fallen after a year (£3000)
Anyway the following May dropped the old girl in the lakes and it was written off
Insurance very quickly offered the £3k less the xs of 300. looking around at what I could replace it with, I realised that similar bikes were back up at around 3700/3800. Had a whinge at the ins co and was told he could not take the decision to pay over the insure value - I asked to be put through to someone who could!
End result, a chap rang me and said he had studied the adverts and testimony from the supplying dealer (to where the bike had been recovered)
and he was not prepared to argue, he would pay me the £3800 less an xs of £150 (I had previously got them to halve the xs in an attempt to get a fairer outcome)
Had the cheque within 2 days!! - £3650!!
PS naming no names but this was in the days before Carole sold the company
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Whoa, wait a minute.
A very quick look in MCN's adverts for 54 plate 1200GS at not incredibly different mileages (and looking at other adverts) reveals a startling truth or two:
http://www.motorcyclenews.com/MCN/bikes-for-sale/searchresults/BMW/R1200GS/_/N-149+646+191
£5,400 looks generous, as the For Sale prices will definitely not represent the final (lower) sale price....
If you got five four you could probably make a few quid.... or pick up a bike a year or more younger and with less miles.... your insurer is ripping nobody off, least of all you.
A very quick look in MCN's adverts for 54 plate 1200GS at not incredibly different mileages (and looking at other adverts) reveals a startling truth or two:
http://www.motorcyclenews.com/MCN/bikes-for-sale/searchresults/BMW/R1200GS/_/N-149+646+191
£5,400 looks generous, as the For Sale prices will definitely not represent the final (lower) sale price....
If you got five four you could probably make a few quid.... or pick up a bike a year or more younger and with less miles.... your insurer is ripping nobody off, least of all you.
Motor insurance bureau.
As you have an untraced driver type incident you may well have a claim against the MIB. Not for your bike but personal injury and any damage to your kit. Worth a look!
Roger.
As you have an untraced driver type incident you may well have a claim against the MIB. Not for your bike but personal injury and any damage to your kit. Worth a look!
Roger.
In the first post the OP describe this as a "no fault accident".
Whilst I accept it is not his fault, i.e. in that there was nothing he could do with the deris on the road, I think I'm right in thinking that if your insurance company can not recover the money from a third party then this counts as claim against you. I'm not sure of the terminology but I think it's referred to as an 'at fault claim'. Have I got this right or am I talking bollocks?
Bob
Whilst I accept it is not his fault, i.e. in that there was nothing he could do with the deris on the road, I think I'm right in thinking that if your insurance company can not recover the money from a third party then this counts as claim against you. I'm not sure of the terminology but I think it's referred to as an 'at fault claim'. Have I got this right or am I talking bollocks?
Bob
[email protected]
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re insurance
took the policy out on line after one of those search engine things, i guessed the value and no where in my statement of facts i got with the policy did it state that they would only pay out the value I had given the bike in the event of a write off. With this excellent policy came a policy wording booklet, which on page 8 in a sub papragraph, it states we will replace at market value unless owner value is less then this is max we will pay, lesson learned, I did not value the bike at £6000 there assesor did , i thought they would pay this amount as he would have a better clue than me, as for prices MCN do seem about right, however if you go on auto trader they are higher, classics guide is higher than glassess so it is all swings and roundabouts, I have my eye on an 08 Adventure, this just means my payments will be more as will my insurance and as the accident was not my fault, even though the insurance will blame me I am a bit pissed off, I have contacted the MIB re the accident but dont expect to hear anything any time soon, but you never know
took the policy out on line after one of those search engine things, i guessed the value and no where in my statement of facts i got with the policy did it state that they would only pay out the value I had given the bike in the event of a write off. With this excellent policy came a policy wording booklet, which on page 8 in a sub papragraph, it states we will replace at market value unless owner value is less then this is max we will pay, lesson learned, I did not value the bike at £6000 there assesor did , i thought they would pay this amount as he would have a better clue than me, as for prices MCN do seem about right, however if you go on auto trader they are higher, classics guide is higher than glassess so it is all swings and roundabouts, I have my eye on an 08 Adventure, this just means my payments will be more as will my insurance and as the accident was not my fault, even though the insurance will blame me I am a bit pissed off, I have contacted the MIB re the accident but dont expect to hear anything any time soon, but you never know
rubberscrubber
Registered user
Slightly off topic but, when I rang Bennets this year for quote:
they asked, has the bike got more than 3 modifications (other than factory fitted), errrrrr YES its a GS, more like 300, so they say they can't insure me. They kindly pass me over to someone who will though..
how many bikes in the UK have more than 3 modifications, quite a substantial amount I'm guessing, if they don't declare them, is their policy null & void ??
they asked, has the bike got more than 3 modifications (other than factory fitted), errrrrr YES its a GS, more like 300, so they say they can't insure me. They kindly pass me over to someone who will though..
how many bikes in the UK have more than 3 modifications, quite a substantial amount I'm guessing, if they don't declare them, is their policy null & void ??
And judging by the For Sale prices in MCN you got the price for a 54 GS about right at £5400, as the likely cost to replace your written off bike. Are you saying that you cannot buy a similar bike for that price? As to the swings in prices between guides, the link I posted to the Ombudsman's site explains his view on those. Take your very fair (if lucky) guess payment and think yourself lucky you did not guess at four grand.
In the first post the OP describe this as a "no fault accident".
Whilst I accept it is not his fault, i.e. in that there was nothing he could do with the deris on the road, I think I'm right in thinking that if your insurance company can not recover the money from a third party then this counts as claim against you. I'm not sure of the terminology but I think it's referred to as an 'at fault claim'. Have I got this right or am I talking bollocks?
Bob
If it is not the fault of the OP that he crashed, it is hard to see how it is the fault of his insurer either. Though they do seem to be carrying the consequences.
IMHO it all depends on how you define 'modifications'. Is a plastic headlight protector a modification? How about a fat foot for the side-stand? Tank bag? How about the toggle that attaches to my airbag vest to inflate it if I'm thrown off the bike? I assume they mean something that might or alter the behaviour (ie performance / handling / braking) of the bike, rather than a cosmetic enhancement. I realise I may be leaving myself open to a thieving insurance company (many are ogres IMHO) trying to wriggle out of any potential claim, but I'm prepared to argue my case with the ombudsman and, if necessary, a court of law.
Listen to / read the question being asked of you when you take out a policy of insurance and answer them as truthfully as you can, is the only advice worth giving and receiving. If you are unsure what they mean, ask the person / organisation to explain them.
Then read the documents that you will receive through the post or via email. Some of them may well ask you to take some sort of action within X number of days, for instance signing a declaration that the facts you gave when taking out the policy are the truth and your answers correctly recorded. Most often the facts that you gave will be repeated in the documents you receive. Some will simply ask you to check the details and point out any errors. The end effect is the same.
Pay particular attention to material facts. These are a common pre-condition of any policy of insurance, not just a simple motor policy. A material fact is:
Any information that may influence either an insurer's decision to offer you cover or the premium they charge for it. If you leave out information which may influence a decision to offer cover, your policy may be invalidated.
Very helpfully the Ombudsman gave examples of innocent non-disclosure and / or the relevance of material facts on a website, a http://www.financial-ombudsman.org.uk/publications/ombudsman-news/7/july-innocent-non-disclosure.htm
Should you wish to pursue your grievance into the courts of law, you will be well advised to engage the counsel of legal council, as only a fool represents himself. Of course the chances of you ever needing to do so are very slight. Indeed, the likelihood of you even needing to talk to the Ombudsman or exhaust an insurer's claims appeals system is remote enough.
In the first post the OP describe this as a "no fault accident".
Whilst I accept it is not his fault, i.e. in that there was nothing he could do with the deris on the road, I think I'm right in thinking that if your insurance company can not recover the money from a third party then this counts as claim against you. I'm not sure of the terminology but I think it's referred to as an 'at fault claim'. Have I got this right or am I talking bollocks?
Bob
Fault claim
An accident or loss where you are considered to be to blame, or where you or your insurance company cannot recover costs from somebody else.
Remember, if your car is hit while parked, by someone who cannot be traced, this counts as a fault claim.
Non-fault claim
With a non-fault claim your insurer is able to recover the cost of the claim from someone else.
Thanks for the info, that's how I thought it worked. I had someone run into my car earlier this year just before insurance renewal, I thought my insurers said at the time it would be a fault claim against me until they could recover the money from the third party. To speed things up I had the car repaired through my insurers, I'm glad I did, the third party was an Avis employee moving Avis stock, it took eight months for Avis insurers to sort out the claim with my insurers, only resolved when court action was threatened.
Bob
rubberscrubber
Registered user
Would you include very sexy (and expensive) Ohlins suspension in that list?
Or what about £400 odd quids worth of Autocom and bike-to-bike radio?
Exactly my point: I'd have thought aftermarket suspension components were a declarable modification, but not an Autocom. On second thoughts, I suppose if the Autocom was incorrectly installed installed and set the bike on fire...
But declaring "anything not fitted by the factory"? Well how long have they got? let's start with the oil, brake and clutch fluids, disks, different tyres, air filter, oil filter, some light bulbs
It's a real nightmare. Maybe there should be a clear definition of what's an accessory and what's a modification.
Exactly my point: I'd have thought aftermarket suspension components were a declarable modification, but not an Autocom. On second thoughts, I suppose if the Autocom was incorrectly installed installed and set the bike on fire...
But declaring "anything not fitted by the factory"? Well how long have they got? let's start with the oil, brake and clutch fluids, disks, different tyres, air filter, oil filter, some light bulbs
It's a real nightmare. Maybe there should be a clear definition of what's an accessory and what's a modification.
I tend to keep my insurance company updated with a list of bling and farkle I've fitted. BMW Insurance seem less interested than Ebike, taking the view that, for example, my Wilbers shocks would only be replaced with the standard BMW ones if terminally bent in an accident.
Update. I asked my insurers, eBike. They make a distinction between "accessories which don't affect the function of your bike" and modifications. They provide a list of modifications that clients are required to declare. Seems a very sensible approach to me!
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