Hilltop Motorcycles fact or fiction
- Thread starter MalcGSA
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I never liked School days so
My 2014 LC ADV went to hilltop ( I am a repeat offender as i had my old TC done) the ECU was not opened up just plugged in and at the end i was presented with some graphs that showed considerable improvement in BHP, Torque and fueling. Now the premise that Geoff just altered the Dyno and took my money whilst laughing up his sleeve is indeed a possibility but ....
The bike is so much better to ride with smoother more responsive behaviour and much better performance which sort of tells me that somehow the remap has improved the bike unless of course I am just Imagining things again and so are all the other happy customers.
Just because you don't know of any way of doing it without opening the ECU does not mean it isn't possible.
As for what Geoff actually does or the programme he uses etc etc being a secret that is understandable as a good deal of money was invested and it is his living so why the feck would he give his secrets away.
My 2014 LC ADV went to hilltop ( I am a repeat offender as i had my old TC done) the ECU was not opened up just plugged in and at the end i was presented with some graphs that showed considerable improvement in BHP, Torque and fueling. Now the premise that Geoff just altered the Dyno and took my money whilst laughing up his sleeve is indeed a possibility but ....
The bike is so much better to ride with smoother more responsive behaviour and much better performance which sort of tells me that somehow the remap has improved the bike unless of course I am just Imagining things again and so are all the other happy customers.
Just because you don't know of any way of doing it without opening the ECU does not mean it isn't possible.
As for what Geoff actually does or the programme he uses etc etc being a secret that is understandable as a good deal of money was invested and it is his living so why the feck would he give his secrets away.
I was rather hoping I could get Hilltop like results without touring all the way down to Notts or wherever. Still don't know!!
I'm sure Delboy is pleased with his results, and he appears to know what he is talking about, but I would like some information without dick swinging.
An immediate thought is that if the original mapping can be improved so markedly by 3rd parties..by what appears to be a simple procedure....why don't the manufacturers ....BMW...do it? What is the downside? Is there one? Apart from 4-500 notes? Or is it just the cost of the kit?
I don't know.....all the answers seem to generate more questions!! I'd probably take a punt if it wasn't 400 miles away! Which is why I was interested in what appears to be a local, if more expensive possibility.
'Spose I could just leave it as it is, but this is probably the last bike I'll have.....gulp....
I'm sure Delboy is pleased with his results, and he appears to know what he is talking about, but I would like some information without dick swinging.
An immediate thought is that if the original mapping can be improved so markedly by 3rd parties..by what appears to be a simple procedure....why don't the manufacturers ....BMW...do it? What is the downside? Is there one? Apart from 4-500 notes? Or is it just the cost of the kit?
I don't know.....all the answers seem to generate more questions!! I'd probably take a punt if it wasn't 400 miles away! Which is why I was interested in what appears to be a local, if more expensive possibility.
'Spose I could just leave it as it is, but this is probably the last bike I'll have.....gulp....
I'm riding said distance on thursday....currently have a power commander 5 but with near as download map from dynojet site. Thought seriously about AF-XIED but hilltop recommendations are overwhelming so I'm just going for it.
But I showed you the graph from my wc that has the newer ME17.2 type ecu, it was mapped by no means of removing or unscrewing the ecu, so I'm not sure why you keep referring to the older ecu's.
What i do no is my seat ov my pants tells me what I need to know regarding value for money or have I had my pants down and the gain was immediately noted on the WC .
Rather then pull the mans business to bits, why not pay him a visit, sit in the booth whilst he's running up a bike and watch what he does or ask him what he did in another life and then you'll realise he's not as daft as he looks.
Mine starts, goes and stops, just as it came off the production line.
I'm not a perfectionist, but very happy.... Ignorance is bliss.
I'm not a perfectionist, but very happy.... Ignorance is bliss.
Im not pulling the guys business to bits, ive said nothing against him at all.
My LC is remapped and im delighted with it.
My LC is remapped and im delighted with it.
Bendy toy
Registered user
Do most folks care about the exact BHP increase? Probably not. Do they care about how their bike rides? Of course they do.
I have a PC5 on mine its improved the bike a lot but without a dyno run its never going to run fully as it should. Will I dyno the PC5? Probably not because its still an add on box. When funds allow I'll be going to see Hilltop Geoff.
It works because BMW set the bike to run on the cheapest low octane fuel and to pass noise regs set by the EU. They also seem to be obsessed by miles per gallon regardless of the risk to exhaust valves. Sort out the lean running, use posh petrol and the bike will run as its designers originally intended.
I have a PC5 on mine its improved the bike a lot but without a dyno run its never going to run fully as it should. Will I dyno the PC5? Probably not because its still an add on box. When funds allow I'll be going to see Hilltop Geoff.
It works because BMW set the bike to run on the cheapest low octane fuel and to pass noise regs set by the EU. They also seem to be obsessed by miles per gallon regardless of the risk to exhaust valves. Sort out the lean running, use posh petrol and the bike will run as its designers originally intended.
Sot1200
Registered user
Same here.
Delboy777
Registered user
I was never looking for more bhp and an increase of 4 hp over what the bike produced isnt that much which just goes to prove that it was good in the first place. All i wanted was a smoother more tractable engine and thats what i got. You can all slag me off as much as you like but im happy with my outcome and you lot can carry on on your quest for more hp that cant be got just by sticking a generic map into your ecu. Dont you think that BMW would have done that if it was possible in the first place ? Go on deluding yourselves about the so called hp increase which is just fantasy AFAIC. Racing teams have to spend many thousands of pounds to gain the % increase being claimed on here. So it can be done for only a few hundred quid ehh ? better go and tell all the racing teams that are spending loads to achieve what Hilltop claim to be able to do in a couple of hours. Theres no doubt that flashing a map to your ecu will improve the bike but it is a generic map, not one suited to your bike alone but to all bikes of the same model. What I got was a map suited to MY bike and im happy with it. I will NEVER believe what Hilltop claim as far as HP increase is concerned, it just isnt that easy.
If you are pleased wit the results then all is well but i cant help wondering how it feels much smoother with that dip at 5k revs ? Its that flat spot that the power comander or the remap should eliminate or make considerably better and looking at that graph there is no difference in that flat spot from the before and after runs
BMW and all the other manufacturers are hampered by EU Legislation, in respect of emissions, noise and also the "all important" fuel consumption figures, at a steady 56mph?
That is why the engines run so lean.
Al
That is why the engines run so lean.
Al
Delboy777
Registered user
I wondered that too but I can assure you there is no flat spot that I can detect either before or after the fitting the PC.
All is well in your world then and I am glad you are as happy with yopur set up as I am with my Hilltop version
Delboy777
Registered user
Seems very strange then does it not, that according to the fuel computer on my bike that nearly always sat around 53mpg (and it was accurate because I checked it several times against actual fuel use) that, in the admittedly short distance, 60 miles, ive done its now reading a steady 62mpg and ive zeroed it twice and its returned to the same both times. Please explain this to me. I will be checking for the next few weeks every time I fill the tank and I will post up my findings. All I know is im not twisting my wrist half as far as I used to do to get the same result.
its down to your throttle response, I think. Remaps can also see an improvement here.
your mpg isn't really accurate anyway - it's only accurate in relation to your mileage as calculated on your bike. This will typically be 5-8% optomistic. Just compare your speedo to a satnav on a level, straight stretch of road. What it is - is consistant.
is the "explain this to me" meant to be provocative?
Al
your mpg isn't really accurate anyway - it's only accurate in relation to your mileage as calculated on your bike. This will typically be 5-8% optomistic. Just compare your speedo to a satnav on a level, straight stretch of road. What it is - is consistant.
is the "explain this to me" meant to be provocative?
Al
When this thread started, I thought the OP was a little bizarre. At the time I had read people's positive experiences about Hilltop and - as ignorant as I am about the mechanics of bikes - figured it was widely accepted that it was a good thing, thus thought it was saying "Hey is this good thing REALLY a good thing? Yes it is", which seemed a little pointless. On the back of what I had read, I mentally listed Hilltop on the shopping list of things to do when I have some expendable income.
What do I know? Fuck all really, as this thread has morphed into another UKGSers dramafest. Apparently, the OP wasn't such a daft thing to surmise as there wasnt the consensus I had perceived. Oh such drama.
What do I know? Fuck all really, as this thread has morphed into another UKGSers dramafest. Apparently, the OP wasn't such a daft thing to surmise as there wasnt the consensus I had perceived. Oh such drama.
Delboy777
Registered user
Why would I be provocative ? pray tell. Had your read my post, I had stated that the fuel computer on MY bike was very accurate and I had confirmed that fact by checking at regular intervals that actual fuel use and computer readout were the same. Fill the tank to the brim trip the tripmeter and brim again taking note of mileage covered. It matters not if the thing over reads by one or twenty % because it will still do so after being mapped so nothing has changed apart from the fact that it would appear im now getting much better mpg. Speed was checked on the dyno when bike was mapped and at 60 mph my speed was over reading by 2mph and at 100 mph it was 5mph.
Bendy toy
Registered user
If the bike came out of the factory with an optimised ECU map then the tuners would have nothing to do. However the manufacturers have to meet all sorts of regulations that offer no benefit to the buying public so engine are strangulated. They also have to accommodate poor fuels so err on the safe side.
Putting the ECU map back to where the designers intended puts back that lost power. It's not magic.
My MPG, measured brim to brim on tank fills, agrees with the trip computer to less than 0.5mpg. The speedo reads fast when compared to Sat Nav. Ive not made serious not of how much but its around 4 to 5 mph fast at 70.
Putting the ECU map back to where the designers intended puts back that lost power. It's not magic.
My MPG, measured brim to brim on tank fills, agrees with the trip computer to less than 0.5mpg. The speedo reads fast when compared to Sat Nav. Ive not made serious not of how much but its around 4 to 5 mph fast at 70.
No idea "why" you'd want it to be provocative - just that it appears thus.
Your mileage isn't accurate - it's consistant. that's the point I was making. Your speedo appears to be around 5% inaccurate (I did say "typically")
On a different note - You should check what horsepower and torque gains are achievable by Rexxer remapping - different method, but as far as I am aware - of similar gains.
I got 125bhp out of a Hilltop'd 1200 twincam - seems good, without being too "optomistic"
Al
Your mileage isn't accurate - it's consistant. that's the point I was making. Your speedo appears to be around 5% inaccurate (I did say "typically")
On a different note - You should check what horsepower and torque gains are achievable by Rexxer remapping - different method, but as far as I am aware - of similar gains.
I got 125bhp out of a Hilltop'd 1200 twincam - seems good, without being too "optomistic"
Al
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