I.A.M.'s course, anyone done it recently?,,,

[Dave78]

I'm in the position where I know I could do with some more training, pointing in the right direction etc..

One of my friends has just passed her IAM test, and another one of my mates is an senior observor for the local IAM group, so I've been out with them for some pointers.. Conclusion, I'm not that bad - although watching them ride I feel like I'm crap and might as well give up now...

One of the guys at work (who I only see every now and then) has done both the IAM and the ROSPA, his view is any (proper) training is better than none..

I will prob go for the IAM to start with given my connections to the local group, and after that who knows.. over the bank holiday weekend I saw a lot of blood/medical tissue/parts bike out and about - it's sort of something that I would like to look into in a few years and someone told me you need to be IAM'd before they will let you ride for them.. but we shall see

 

[Littledumptruck]

Why worry about IAM or ROSPA, if they are both available in your area then start with one and then do the other as well.

Good reply.

Whats the difference between them. Well IAM are out there doing it, but from my experience, and I have tried 3 times over the last 10 years, Rospa are only available in Name only. Naf all groups, naf all observers. Oh and when you do find someone there so full of themselves.

Don't understand first comment about Roadcraft. Why would anyone have issues with it? If its good enough for Police riders its good enough for me. You tried keeping up with any of them when there out for a play!!

 

[Timolgra]

someone told me you need to be IAM'd before they will let you ride for them.. but we shall see

Well IAM are out there doing it, but from my experience, and I have tried 3 times over the last 10 years, Rospa are only available in Name only. Naf all groups, naf all observers. Oh and when you do find someone there so full of themselves.

Perhaps a common theme

 

[Boxerboy55]

' I was like 2 riders, on the big B roads, & A roads he couldn't keep up and I was clearly an excellent rider, but on the narrow B roads I had no confidence and was like a novice.' He changed that, and gave me confidence to ride the bike on all types of roads

I think that's what I'm looking for. Better All-Round confidence and competence. I did ERS last summer and didn't enjoy it at all. Didn't learn a thing. Actually felt screwed. What price a piece of paper?

The fact the "instructor's" radio never worked, it rained as hard as I've ever met didn't help my afternoon. Oh, did I mention the cost? VFM? No.

I agree that almost any coaching is better than none, but would recommend anyone looking for the first time might try one of the free offers before throwing good money at what may be poor coaching.

A bloke I know recommends California Bike School for confidence building. He's not been riding too many years, but has taken an accelerated learning path and is planning to ride his bike from UK to Turkey to the Caspian Sea.

 

[Ogmios]

Good reply.

Whats the difference between them. Well IAM are out there doing it, but from my experience, and I have tried 3 times over the last 10 years, Rospa are only available in Name only.... Oh and when you do find someone there so full of themselves.

Don't understand first comment about Roadcraft. Why would anyone have issues with it? If its good enough for Police riders its good enough for me. You tried keeping up with any of them when there out for a play!!

i have heard the RoSPA admin is.... not up to scratch.
RoSPA usually use Police riders to deliver their Diploma course, so they should be damn good.
as for RoSPA instructors being full of themselves... someone else please answer that - preferably someone i've trained / assessed.
If i answer i could be accused of the same!

 

[st247]

Don't understand first comment about Roadcraft. Why would anyone have issues with it? If its good enough for Police riders its good enough for me. You tried keeping up with any of them when there out for a play!!

It's another argument but, Roadcraft is pretty good at what it does but IMO is left rather lacking in the machine control area and it's a difficult read (low boredom threshold i guess). For SAFETY it does what it says on the tin, but if safety was our only concern we wouldn't be riding bikes would we

There are of course alternatives, Not the blue book - heard good things about this one but not read it myself. Twist of the wrist 2 - i have read this one and personally i prefer it for machine control than any of the other books i've read including roadcraft.

A bloke I know recommends California Bike School for confidence building. He's not been riding too many years, but has taken an accelerated learning path and is planning to ride his bike from UK to Turkey to the Caspian Sea.

Having done all four levels of the superbike school i'd have to say it is very good, expensive but you get what you pay for, a proper school with damned good instruction on and off track. The other thing to remember, which is made very clear on the day, is that it is NOT a race school and a large amount of the drills are appropriate on the road, there just taught in a safe enviroment. Might even go back for a refresher.

 

[grandtrousers]

I am currently doing my IAM - (no, not eating cat food!) with Manchester 500 and really enjoying it I have done BMW offroad and Redtread in Spain and enjoyed those as well. If you keep an open mind and most importantly try to enjoy yourself whilst doing any riding course you will always benefit; and each course I have been on has taught me something really usefull and I feel more comfortable in handling my bike - I've had my bike for seven years now and with every course I have been on I enjoy it more and more as I find myself using more techniques in varying situations and find it great fun to explore what my bike (and me) are really capable of.
So yes , go for it - and any other course you fancy, you won't regret it

 

[Ogmios]

coming from the other end...

... as in; delivering the training

to me, Roadcraft is not a tool used in isolation. Though 'essential reading'. (Why pay a trainer to teach theory when you can do a fair percentage of that yourself?).
I use it alongside putting theory into practice.

Research shows (and dont get me started on that topic )
the bulk of crash causation is divided between machine control and Hazard perception / management.
I'd say a roughly 50/50 balance of each is the key to staying alive and still having fun.

 

[thauma]

I think that's what I'm looking for. Better All-Round confidence and competence. .........

I agree that almost any coaching is better than none, but would recommend anyone looking for the first time might try one of the free offers before throwing good money at what may be poor coaching.

Only good coaching is worthwhile - bad coaching could push you in the wrong direction (ie - unsafe).

I agree that trying one (or all) of the 'freebies' is a good way to find out what it's like. Most importantly getting the right relationship is so important - which is why I don't like the pay & train philospohy. OK costs have to be covered, but I do feel that when $$$ is involved, then things are paired down to the minimum delivery for max profit. As it happens the IAM (don't know about Rospa) guys I went with were all bike lovers, and happy to give advice / observation as a club not a business. As many observed rides as I needed when I wanted them at my convenience to get me to the test standard, pre-test / confirmation validation ride(s) and then the test. To be honest I'd have had to pay 10 times the money to get the same hours, and probably less quality. BUT THIS WAS MY EXPERIENCE, I can't say that it will be the same for all.

Cheers

Dave#...

 

[Ogmios]

Only good coaching is worthwhile - bad coaching could push you in the wrong direction (ie - unsafe).

I agree that trying one (or all) of the 'freebies' is a good way to find out what it's like. Most importantly getting the right relationship is so important - which is why I don't like the pay & train philospohy. OK costs have to be covered, but I do feel that when $$$ is involved, then things are paired down to the minimum delivery for max profit. As it happens the IAM (don't know about Rospa) guys I went with were all bike lovers, and happy to give advice / observation as a club not a business. As many observed rides as I needed when I wanted them at my convenience to get me to the test standard, pre-test / confirmation validation ride(s) and then the test. To be honest I'd have had to pay 10 times the money to get the same hours, and probably less quality. BUT THIS WAS MY EXPERIENCE, I can't say that it will be the same for all.

Cheers

Dave#...

Dave,
fair enough, you say; "THIS WAS MY EXPERIENCE".
But i have to say that the comment

"when $$$ is involved, then things are paired down to the minimum delivery for max profit."

... is hurtful.
for one thing, this could be levelled at anyone - e.g. a tradesman working in your home.
and it's not the case.
In my own case, i have spent a lot of money to gain the professional qualifications to be fit to be called an approved, advanced instructor.
I dont expect to recoup this from people i train. (never will - i'm part time anyway and if motivation was profit - believe me, i'd pick some other line of work )
I deliver a high standard and do my utmost to do justice to the end user.
Please dont tar all with the same brush.
Thank you.

 

[Boxergs]

... as in; delivering the training

to me, Roadcraft is not a tool used in isolation. Though 'essential reading'. (Why pay a trainer to teach theory when you can do a fair percentage of that yourself?).
I use it alongside putting theory into practice.

Research shows (and dont get me started on that topic )
the bulk of crash causation is divided between machine control and Hazard perception / management.
I'd say a roughly 50/50 balance of each is the key to staying alive and still having fun.

 

[bladerunner]

Twist of the wrist 2 - i have read this one and personally i prefer it for machine control than any of the other books i've read including roadcraft.


.

I agree Twist of the Wrist 2 is an excellent book - it is interesting how when riding a bike (bit like skiing) the first intuition may well be wrong and one needs to unlearn "instinct" and get in-grained good habits.

I found IAM of some use but they were rather sanctimonious and dry.

I learned a lot of road craft from the BMW off road schools (e.g. what it feels like to have a front wheel skid) and I benefit a lot from riding with an ex police class 1 rider (Andy "the food" Smith).

I think it is helpful to think back on each ride and honestly ask yourself if you nearly screwed up at any point.

 

[HonestJohn]

It makes you think ..

Big Si,

I'm new(ish) - not returning like you ... did my test Jan 08, bought a 1200GS Mar 08, passed IAM July 08, Off Road Skills 1 Sept 09, bought a G650Xcountry for trails fun in Nov 09 and ORS level 2 on a 1200GS last month ... and after that, and over 20,000 UK miles in all weathers, I'd say ...

Go for it!

I found the Roadcraft system a pain, my instructor a good bloke but a bit pernickety at times, some of the IAM guys a bit pedantic - but if you're looking to find bad points you can always find them, and reasons to undermine what's on offer.

What I found amazing was how committed and helpful my observer Alan was in helping me think about my riding, and improve. And all he wanted in return from me was £5 to cover his petrol, and a bacon butty. Wow!

And after Alan got inured by another biker's mistake a few years ago, he can't get onto a GS any more and now rides a 600cc scooter - I can imagine some folks rolling their eyes - but that didn't stop him being a top bloke, able to challenge me and offer real insight into how I could ride faster and safer.

It was a major commitment - like most worthwhile things. And skills are things that I find I learn through doing again and again, until they're automatic. I can't remember any of the irritating acronyms, but my riding is vastly improved because of the time and attention that Alan gave me.

If you're open to criticism - of your IAM observer and yourself - and prepared to reflect on what you might have done better during an observed 2-3 hour ride out, you'll probably learn loads!

Give it a go - there's very little to lose, and possibly an enormous amount to gain. I did.

Good luck!

 

[Bikerjim]

Passed my IAM Test last week

I passed my test last week after only about 5 ride outs with my obsever

The instruction recived was very good , but there were several confilcts of interest (from different observers) Some use common sense others which way the wind blows.

Generaly a good club with good ride outs, Problem is when people pass there test they are never seen again . Club needs more social or events to keep interest.

Just my 2pence

Jim

 

[too loud man]

I am a Qualified Senior Observer and Chair of a my local IAM group. I always read with interest the views expressed by non trained and trained riders, their experiences as trainees, quality of training etc.

I agree that there are a lot of Green badges and Rospa medals on screens and helmets out there that seem to give their owners a superiority ticket or faux policeman status. Dont be put off by these wannabees, funny enough I dont see them on many club social rides where their 'skills' may be on view to all.

Some of the comments about the disparity between trainers (observers) is spot on, without measured quality control within the various groups, training skills drop off and the trainee(associate) will suffer from a poor service.
My group is not uncommon in ensuring our observers are trained to senior level although it is up to them whether they wish to take a Senior Observer test (repeated every three years with a IAM staff examiner).

My advice to a prospective trainee would be to try and attend a training evening, usually once a month. All groups should have an online calender on their website. Get a feel for what the group is about, speak to some observers, book an assesment ride and make a decision whether its going to suit you and book the skills for life course.

What the course doesnt do is teach you to get your knee down, out corner leon Haslam, ride over frozen mud with your £13K fully loaded motorcycle or wheelie for Engalnd. What it can do is give you confidence to ride at a snails pace and do feet up full lock U turns; smooth, safe and systematic overtakes; safe, progressive cornering in wet and dry conditions; amongst a host of other things.

It doesnt suit all people and egos can be damaged, but you will get out what you put in, this applies to both IAM or Rospa.

Good luck with what ever route you take.

Mark

 

[byker_tr]

i don't live in UK and i am not British. all the way over here in Turkey, we come accross similar discussions about whether to get training or not. also iam vs rospa..

i am pro-training person. i enjoy sharing riding experiences. not just when i am being observed, but also when i listen to other riders' rights or wrongs, this adds to my riding.

.. so go for it. all you'll loose is a few quid.

 

[Kahuna]

I'm late to this discussion but just thought my 2p worth might help others.

If you really want to see the Police System in action, both slow - broken down to its proper parts where you can learn from it - and fast as they often ride, with full cometary (and comedy music...) have a look at Mike Waite's DVD. He's an (the) ex-police instructor and pretty much single handedly developed the cometary rider training system a lot of other forces now use.

There are clips on his web site, it'll be the best £15 you'll spend if you buy it, and to make life even more interesting then book with one of Mikes trainers!

4 Days with one of those guys and you WILL be riding Police Stylie!

http://www.mikewaite.co.uk/

Here's the thing for me - I could have spent £800 - £1k on exhausts and power commanders and still not achieved the increased progress I can make after this type of training (I've had a quite a bit from others over the years - though nothing like this). I ride faster (when I choose too) I'm super safe in comparison and I really enjoy my rides so much more now - literally adore the time sat on the bike - it's like precision riding - but just comes naturally after a few days.

PS: Does anyone have a source for 'NOT The Blue Book' - Amazon don't have it any more?

 

[Urban Rider]

I passed my test last week after only about 5 ride outs with my obsever

The instruction recived was very good , but there were several confilcts of interest (from different observers) Some use common sense others which way the wind blows.

Generaly a good club with good ride outs, Problem is when people pass there test they are never seen again . Club needs more social or events to keep interest.
Just my 2pence

Jim

Good point Jim,

But you shouldn't need a group ride out or social event to stay interested in advanced riding. Isn't it supposed to change your attitude to riding. I am not aware of the IAM school of training but can certainly see your point. How many IAM qualified riders take the test then within 6 months fall back into their old habits and forget the majority of what they trained for. When I decided to take the plunge into advanced riding that was what put me off IAM. The re-test every 3 years with RoSPA attracted me and made me think it would be at a higher standard with consistant progress.....

 

[ELIMINATOR]

I.A.M. I may consider giving them a try, as opposed to the ROSPA lot for reasons explained below.

I went the Rospa route for the same reasons as in the above thread, plus, my partner passed her I.A.M. car test , and her driving is crap.

Hmm, I only signed up after I was told that a local branch would be opened in Hamshire, as I didn't fancy going to Crawley to attend the 6 Sunday lectures.

After paying subscriptions, the Hampshire branch decided not to do the lectures. So I had to go to Crawley for 6 consecutive Sundays. I would say that these lectures were far better than I had anticipated, and I still follow what I learnt from these.

Then the Hamshire branch at Otterborne closed completely. I tried to change to the Thames valley group and contacted them, more than once.

I gave up in the end, it seems that they don't need /want new members.

 

[Stormtrooper]

When I passed my bike test in 2005, the following year I signed up for the IAM's Skill For Life program. In the same year I also did Bikesafe with my local police force. The first few weeks was tough! After being told in direct access to keep to the left and then the IAM telling you it was right of centre for you normal defensive riding position.

However after week 3, the penny dropped and it all of a sudden became second nature! By the time I was test ready, my standard of riding and hazard awareness had improved ten fold!

After passing my test I went back to my local group to train as an IAM Observer so I could pass on what I learned to other people willing to learn. I have been an IAM Observer for 3 year but unfortunately due to work commitments I have been unable to train others this year. It is very satisfying seeing someone's standard of riding great improve from week 1 to when they are test ready.

Last year, out of interest I applied to do my RoSPA test. I did the test with no training from a RoSPA group so this was purely to see what my standard of riding was like since a) passing my IAM test 4 years ago and b) to see if there was a difference in IAM vs RoSPA expectations on the test.

I was awarded RoSPA Gold.

The structure of the Skills For Life and the RoSPA training are both based around Police Roadcraft. The main difference being the IAM is a pass or a fail (officially stated as 'recommended membership to the IAM' or not) whereas the RoSPA offers 3 standards of pass rates (Gold, Silver and Bronze) and a fail.

I like the way through RoSPA membership (£20 per year) they offer re-tests after 3 years free of charge. However, in the Aberdeenshire area there is no active RoSPA bike group.

I also like the way the IAM encourages those who have passed their test to come back into the Group and train as Observers and pass on what they have learned to others. The IAM Group assess the Observers initially when they become an fully qualified Observer and their standard of riding and teaching ability is re-assessed at least every 3 years to ensure training standards are consistant.

Whichever method of advanced training you chose, you will learn something and I would recommend any form of advanced training whether it be attending a Bikesafe course with your local police (which is purely a taster), IAM, RoSPA or private advanced tuition.