I need to break my silence

[Gaz_57]

This does make me nervous .... had 5 years and 60,000 Kms on my 2000 R1, and the only service it ever got was me changing the oil and filter every 5000. I kept feeding it brake pads too, but that is it ... and it will still start on the button today ... (and there are about 6 track days in there too) ..... I AM expecting that kind of reliability from Mr BMW ... and i will be pissed off if i dont get it .... it is bad enough having to go back to him for a good rodgering every time i need an oil change now becaause of his computer / can bus thingy ... Gaz

 

[Roughy]

Oh dear, never meant to cause so much upset although I guess thats down to Tentoone rather than me.

Everyone who has posted is right because thats your personal perception and at the end of the day perception is reality in the mind of the individual.

The real reason for my post (which was similar to thousands before it) was literally to let off steam after getting off the phone to mondial assistance who had once again mismanaged my expectations and told me my bike wouldn't be home for another week. AAAAARRRRRHHHH and all the time the suns shining outside my window.

Like I originally said I have read thousands of posts on the site including much of Pan Europeans useful info on sat nav, the sad tale of the baron crashing his adventure, the 'show me the inside of your garage thread' which in my opinion is the best ever etc etc.

I may have lost faith in the bike but not the forum and will continue reading in the background.

Maybe even chip in from time to time.

Dave

 

[Wapping]

Whilst I am no apologist for BMW (or the 1200) or Mondial Assistance per-se, here’s my tuppence worth.

BMW Recovery, along with a host of other manufacturers and recovery companies, pool their resources into Mondial Assistance. In effect it’s an insurance policy - backed by a recovery company - that will get you and your vehicle recovered back home following a breakdown and / or left in a position to continue your holiday and / or the vehicle repaired in-situ. That’s exactly what they did.

Given that you only had the final two days of your holiday left (I assume it was the return leg) it would seem sensible that they got you and your luggage home, by buying you an airline ticket, rather than you paying for it. Given the time constraints, there would seem to be little sense in Mondial Assistance then arranging for the repair to your bike in Europe (which is all they are obliged to do) as you would then have to return to the Slovenian garage to pick it up yourself.

So, to save you further cost and inconvenience, Mondial Assistance also shipped your bike home to the UK, not an inconsiderable distance and one which, I assume, you would not be willing to push it over. To reduce their costs (which would otherwise be passed onto you, the consumer) Mondial Assistance collect various bikes / cars together and transport them on low loader / container back to the home country/ies. Whether 25 days is reasonable to perform the task of transporting your bike from Lake Blad, Slovenia to Kent is up to you to decide.

Whether the breakdown of your 1200 was reasonable is another matter entirely. Some people have suggested that the mileage is over the top. My 1200 and another one, covered 4,200 in eight days no sweat and not slouching about. 2,500 in seven days? Pah….

 

[Roughy]

Wapping

I agree with your comments, thank you.

What I am most anoyed with is the fact that I have been continually lied to about when the bike will be back. First it was ten days, then it was 14 etc etc.

If someone had said to me your bike wont be back for a month I would have had the hump but accepted it.

And you're right they are going round europe scooping up a load of other bikes, probably all GS12's maybe they can put one good one together from lot.

 

[littleredrooster]

Problem with the 1200GS in my opinion is that it was rushed out too quickly with far too many innovative features. A lot of the supposed weight saving is again in my opinion just BMW cheapening and dumbing down the product. .

Like what, exactly?

 

[wilbjr21]

Roughy:

Oh dear, never meant to cause so much upset

And again:

And you're right they are going round europe scooping up a load of other bikes, probably all GS12's maybe they can put one good one together from lot.

This'll be you "not trying to cause so much upset" again then is it.???

 

[Paul Mac]

Like what, exactly?

(1) Canbus system - far too complicated - whats wrong with a fuse.
(2) Sealed for life final drive - too flimsy and not up to the job.
(3) Plastic side panels that blow off due to poorly designed fixings.
(4) Clutch that overheats and smells at the slightest loading.
(5) Gearbox neutral switch - unacceptable level of failure due to water ingress
(6) Very poorly designed fuel pump housing. - Massive water reservoir over the fuel pump connections that has no drain so water is allowed to accumulate and slosh about over vital electrics which eventually fail and stop the bike.
(7) Front discs that warp under normal use and braking.
(8) Rear brake light electrics left open to the elements - hence high level of corrosion and failure.
(9) High incidence of gear box failures.
(10) Battery far too small and in COLD weather goes flat after bike not started for approx 2 weeks.

As a riding machine the 1200GS is awesome - handles superbly and is a great bike to ride. The dealer back up is superb and no quibbles over warranty issues. My point is the bike isn't as reliable as it could be and this I believe is in part due to the large number of innovative design features incorporated into it. It was sold as rough tough RTW capable machine and of course I admit that I am never going to take the bike RTW - BUT I did buy it with the intention of exploring Eastern Europe in the former communist block area away from the sophisticated western style infrastructure of dealers etc. I don't think that the bike is inherently reliable enough to do this, and if it did happen to fail far too complex to repair in the field. To me the bike was realeased to public too early and I can't believe that it was adequately tested by BMW as the faults reported and experienced with 2004 bikes would surley have been identified and sorted prior to release. The liturgy of final drive failures/fuel pump failures for example beggars belief on a vehicle that has been properly product tested. The 1200GS is a great bike PERIOD - but flawed in my opinion by reliability issues and has unfortunately put me off ever buying another new BMW motorcycle again. This is unfortunate as I was always 100% commited to the BMW experience and have owned 5 previous to the GS. In contrast my 1150RT has been a superb motorcycle and I have not had one single issue with it - difference is my RT was one of the last to be made and no doubt well sorted with all previous problems ironed out.

 

[Fanum]

(1) Canbus system - far too complicated - whats wrong with a fuse.

I'm not going to argue with any of your other points Paul, but the Canbus actually seems to be one of the better developments...I can't remember one breakdown that is actually down to it

The ancilliary electricals have failed due to water ingress/design etc, and there have been a few issues with software (time out on aux socket etc) but the canbus itself seems very reliable (though I'm sure somebody will give an example now when it hasn't been ) and is in fact simpler than the multiple circuit design of the previous series GS's.

Once you've stuck in a NN fuse box to power extras, it seems like a good system...and that's coming from a confirmed 1150 Adv devotee

 

[Paul Mac]

As I write time 0900 postman delivers letter - see its from my BMW dealer. Open letter two recalls on my 1200GS Quote I am writing to inform you that your BMW motorcycle has two outstanding recalls.

The first recall is a small modification to the front brake.
The second recall is the re routing of the ABS sensor cable.

Of course I accept these minor issues and not really significant - but thats really my point its a drip drip effect of all these problems that should have been identified in proper product testing. My dealership are, in common with the vast majority of experiences that I have heard about, excellent and I dont have a single issue with the BMW back up service - just wish that there weren't so many reliability/design issues - this is the 4th recall on my bike. I rest my case!!!

 

[Graham G]

Of course I accept these minor issues and not really significant - but thats really my point its a drip drip effect of all these problems that should have been identified in proper product testing. My dealership are, in common with the vast majority of experiences that I have heard about, excellent and I dont have a single issue with the BMW back up service - just wish that there weren't so many reliability/design issues - this is the 4th recall on my bike. I rest my case!!!

Agree again with Paul. Seems as though BMW are intent on chasing the market and problem solving as it goes. Maybe with that strategy they can afford just to dish out recall notices as and when.

 

[smilee mark]

Thats right. Courior Systems purchased a job lot at a massively reduced rate and their riders spend their lives bitching about them (weight, width etc). However, such was their investment, they have to run them for a lot lot longer and service them in house as the only way to afford the frequent reliability problems.

Back in the real world, Couriors who ride their own bikes choose bikes that are reliable, not cost the earth to purchase and maintain and actually last.

Very much in the real world (here) down under. I was a courier for 18 months and chose a bike that was "reliable", "did not cost a fortune to purchase" for the machine it was and cost very little to maintain, nothing went wrong ie no breakdowns whilst travelling three hundred Kilometres a day,five days a week.The Bike was a BMW R100. add to that, at the end of the day I had no back or hip pain,(no pain in general) my posterior never got sore during the day and the bike was a pleasure to ride around on. The couriers that owned BM's swore by them as ideal. I am sure the others were envious.

 

[nleader]

<snip>Some people have suggested that the mileage is over the top. My 1200 and another one, covered 4,200 in eight days no sweat and not slouching about. 2,500 in seven days? Pah…. <snip>

Not for the bike, they didn't - just their own (mine) personal choice of daily mileage for a holiday. 500 mile days, day after day, just aren't for me. The bike wouldn't have any trouble with it, but I do!

Norman

 

[Paul Wakefield]

(1) Canbus system - far too complicated - whats wrong with a fuse.

Like Bill, another vote for the Canbus system here as well.

When my GPS was installed (not by a BM dealer I might add), two wires were left bare inside the insulation tape. They would occasionally touch and short circuit. Took ages to trace the problem whilst touring in France.

The Canbus just shut the offending systems down. I would have run out of fuses long before solving the issue (that is what is wrong with fuses). OK - not a great cost but hassle. Solve problem, Canbus repowers systems. Great.

There was a lot of knocking of the Canbus concept when first announced on the 1200 and the idea of it being complex and unreliable seems to have passed into folklore - just lack of understanding I suspect. No doubt someone will have had a problem but it does not seem to be generally unreliable.

Won't argue with your other nine points especially the fuel pump housing. However, apart from the fuel pump and the clutch which smelt a bit for the first few hundred miles only, never had any of the other problems and I do wonder how widespread problems with, say, discs and neutral lights are.

Paul

 

[wilbjr21]

Another vote for the CAN Bus. After all it's an Industry Standard. A pair of wires over which bits of electronics communicate with each other - such as giving your readout on the speedo. It just cannot get simpler than two wires.

As for corroding plugs and sockets; there's such a thing as ACF 50 grease and self help. Prevention is better than cure. And before some smart arse says that this doesn't happen on my Honda, Yamaha, 1150 etc. - it just plain does.

 

[BBB61]

Agree again with Paul. Seems as though BMW are intent on chasing the market and problem solving as it goes. Maybe with that strategy they can afford just to dish out recall notices as and when.

Graham,

Do you think BMW are the only manufacturer who use their buyers as development riders?