Norfolk Tiger ?
IAM training/"making progress"
- Thread starter agfoxx
- Start date
Norfolk Tiger ?
Giles has followed me at Dent 2016, so hope it's not me or you............ as you were on that ride too
I think that the bike you ride sets the mood.
When I ride my K1300S I find it very difficult to pootle.
On the other hand when I ride my R1150GS I have to pootle or the knobbly tyres wear down in no time. I had to ride over to Wales for the pre Iceland get together and it was most strange having to travel along with cars instead of overtaking them. Very irritating when they seem to go everywhere at 45mph even in the 30s. I even got to admire the scenery which is something I never get to do when riding the K.
When I ride my K1300S I find it very difficult to pootle.
On the other hand when I ride my R1150GS I have to pootle or the knobbly tyres wear down in no time. I had to ride over to Wales for the pre Iceland get together and it was most strange having to travel along with cars instead of overtaking them. Very irritating when they seem to go everywhere at 45mph even in the 30s. I even got to admire the scenery which is something I never get to do when riding the K.
Giles has followed me at Dent 2016, so hope it's not me or you............ as you were on that ride too
I didnt want to say that !
What with it being someones birthday and all
As one of my fellow observers who mentored me says "Maximum safe progress, with the minimum of effort, showing quiet efficiency", sums it up really.
With regards to the speed limit thread, humans on the end of a speed gun could make the 10% variance decision to make allowances for calibration, however the cameras don't and as little as 3mph over can mean a fixed penalty. Thats how I understand it.
With regards to the speed limit thread, humans on the end of a speed gun could make the 10% variance decision to make allowances for calibration, however the cameras don't and as little as 3mph over can mean a fixed penalty. Thats how I understand it.
People get their knickers in a twist over "Progress", its not at the top of the list, safely, smoothly , progressive and well, its third.....if you ride safe and smooth, you make progress well, simples.
In making progress what would be the examiners view in this situation
In a 50 mph zone.
You are doing 50mph following a car in front of you doing 50 mph.
A safe overtake situation becomes available.
Do you stay behind at the legal speed limit or do you overtake and drop back to the speed limit
In a 50 mph zone.
You are doing 50mph following a car in front of you doing 50 mph.
A safe overtake situation becomes available.
Do you stay behind at the legal speed limit or do you overtake and drop back to the speed limit
Personally I would stay behind if doing the advanced stuff. If in a 60 though, if a vehicle was doing say 58, I would pass, then drop back.
thanks
that is what I thought but many IOM riders I have ridden with would not follow that rule - they seem to think that having the IOM badge elevates then to act like idiots
that is what I thought but many IOM riders I have ridden with would not follow that rule - they seem to think that having the IOM badge elevates then to act like idiots
IAM guidance is 100% clear: speed limits are there to be observed. If someone overtook under those circs then they've either failed to spot the limited zone OR decided they're above the law. Either way is a fail. Progressive riding means using the system to make the best possible and safest progress within the prevailing circs and the law. The other thing is racing. Thats fine on the track.
I’ve been an IAM Roadsmart bike examiner since last year and it’s worth noting that the IAM approach was overhauled in 2016. There is a clear standard now & every candidate should get the same test.
It’s not a police test so to expect the standard of a police rider who has probably had 200 hours of full time training + regular refreshers would be unrealistic.
The examiner has limited discretion on speeding, so if you take a clear decision to overtake a car & you’re over the limit, that’s a fail.
A safe & legal thinking ride, with reasonable progress and without surprising anyone else on the road should see a pass.
It’s not a police test so to expect the standard of a police rider who has probably had 200 hours of full time training + regular refreshers would be unrealistic.
The examiner has limited discretion on speeding, so if you take a clear decision to overtake a car & you’re over the limit, that’s a fail.
A safe & legal thinking ride, with reasonable progress and without surprising anyone else on the road should see a pass.
Soif the driver slowed to 55 in a 60 one would still stay a safe distance behind?
No, you just fall back and follow them at the legal speed limit, and at an appropriate distance. Why overtake somebody who is not preventing you from making progress in a legal manner?
Spot on - a common mistake is to stay in the overtaking position when an overtake is not on - drop back to following position, first making sure you'll not surprise anyone behind you.
Spot on - a common mistake is to stay in the overtaking position when an overtake is not on - drop back to following position, first making sure you'll not surprise anyone behind you.
You only have a 5mph speed differential to stay legal.
Ask yourself; Do the circumstances allow me enough time to complete the overtake safely without exceeding the limit?
Sorry,
The IAM is not a national standard, if you straightline or off-side in Englandshire as long as it is done safely it isn't an issue (common misconception for examiners doc by Peter Rogers) however do it in Scotlandville it is a fail.
Why because Tulliallan doesn't do it therefore all Police Scotland trained don't do it, whether it is safe or not.
Example, 3 mini roundabouts in a row which can be straightlined without crossing white line, perfect vision and no other road user's, do you treat each one separately and ride around it circular fashion or link them, to the furthest point you can see, and straighten them out.
To me the first option isn't advanced riding, the second is. BUT if you do first one you could fail, as it isn't showing forward planning where as if you do second one in Scotland you WILL fail.
It is inconsistencies like this that make organisations look stupid to outsider's.
Another small point is this, my speedo may say 59mph where yours say 62mph, which is correct ?
If, I was behind someone doing 59mph in a nsl it'd be following position; Depending on how they're driving, all over the road, chatting to mate, putting on make up or driving up the arse of the lorry in front of them, then I'll be at least double the following distance, safer for me.
There are occasions where pulling over and getting a gap is the best and safest option, there is no emergency to attend so why risk your life ?
What I can see
What I cannot see
What I can reasonably expect to develop.
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The IAM's take on the OP's question is that you do not plan to exceed the speed limit.
There are times when, whilst you were not planning to exceed the speed limit, the actions of other road users may suddenly cause you to have to re-evaluate the situation and the best/safest course of action to take may be to speed up slightly. In this situation, providing it is justifiable, I think it would be very unusual for an examiner to fail anyone. I believe it falls under what the IAM's Peter Rogers would call a 'thinking rider' approach.
'Tractors are go' raises some interesting points, particularly with the discrepancies between Scotland and England. We were discussing these just the other week at an intergroup meeting I was at which was on the 'Borders'. A question was raised that if British traffic law applied to both countries, and it wasn't illegal to straight line (nor offside for that matter) then, providing it was done safely/in safe situations, then why should a Scottish IAM examiner fail someone just because Police Scotland don't do it. We felt it shouldn't matter that Police Scotland don't do it, they don't set the Road traffic Law nor does the Scottish Parliament (currently), therefore the Scottish Examiners should apply British Law. Just our opinion at this meeting.
Regarding the speedo discrepancy, normally these are only differences of 2 or 3 mph so are too insignificant to worry about and should have no impact on a 'test' situation. Besides, speedos are designed to under-read rather than be over. The only time, whilst observing, I've had an issue is when someone has been using their SatNav to gauge their speed rather than the bikes speedo, especially on particular windy roads. In this situation the SatNav will display the incorrect speed and they will actually be going faster than they think, potentially exceeding the speed limit.
Bob
There are times when, whilst you were not planning to exceed the speed limit, the actions of other road users may suddenly cause you to have to re-evaluate the situation and the best/safest course of action to take may be to speed up slightly. In this situation, providing it is justifiable, I think it would be very unusual for an examiner to fail anyone. I believe it falls under what the IAM's Peter Rogers would call a 'thinking rider' approach.
'Tractors are go' raises some interesting points, particularly with the discrepancies between Scotland and England. We were discussing these just the other week at an intergroup meeting I was at which was on the 'Borders'. A question was raised that if British traffic law applied to both countries, and it wasn't illegal to straight line (nor offside for that matter) then, providing it was done safely/in safe situations, then why should a Scottish IAM examiner fail someone just because Police Scotland don't do it. We felt it shouldn't matter that Police Scotland don't do it, they don't set the Road traffic Law nor does the Scottish Parliament (currently), therefore the Scottish Examiners should apply British Law. Just our opinion at this meeting.
Regarding the speedo discrepancy, normally these are only differences of 2 or 3 mph so are too insignificant to worry about and should have no impact on a 'test' situation. Besides, speedos are designed to under-read rather than be over. The only time, whilst observing, I've had an issue is when someone has been using their SatNav to gauge their speed rather than the bikes speedo, especially on particular windy roads. In this situation the SatNav will display the incorrect speed and they will actually be going faster than they think, potentially exceeding the speed limit.
Bob
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