I'm stumped and a bit depressed

[Spud]

I'm stumped and a little fed up. My old 2002 1150, "Ada" has 130,000 odd miles and has never let me down. She's been in the garage for a few months for various reasons but started occasionally (last time about 6 weeks ago) and kept on battery tender. I went to start it yesterday and unlike the usual, 1 turn and she's off, no effort at starting at all.
The Battery appears in good health and throws the bike over well.
I pulled the plugs, and they are sparking well, and were a bit wet with petrol.
I cleaned and dried the plugs but still no joy.
The fuels been in a while so figured it must be that, so pulled the tank off, emptied the whole contents and re filled with a gallon of fresh Super unleaded. Still no joy.
I checked the plugs again, a healthy spark. Pulled a injector and that's firing a nice fine mist of fuel when the engine turns over.
so, why won't it make any effort to start ??
I'm confused with this one, so appealing to those with a much better mechanical knowledge than I...
Thanks in advance for any help.
Spud

 

[Mad Hatter]

Hall sensor?

 

[Spud]

Hall sensor?

I wondered that, but it's sparking and injecting ?? I thought a Hall sensor gone bad would kill one or both of those ?

 

[Mad Hatter]

If it’s getting fuel and it’s getting sparks and it’s got compression and the valve timing hasn’t been cocked up then I would question whether the spark timing is correct hence the hall sensor….

 

[JohnnyBoxer]

Starter motor failed?

 

[Spud]

Starter motor failed?

Throws it over just as fast as it always has though .....,

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[Redboots]

New plugs.
Spark plugs often show sparks, but under pressure, fail.
How long have they been in there?

 

[Paradiso]

Another shout for starter motor. Maybe a detached magnet?

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[Nin]

I’d start by checking the hall sensor. It’s a long time since mine failed but I think the process is:

Remove plugs
Switch ignition on
Listen for fuel pump prime
Put in high gear
Turn rear wheel to turn engine over
The fuel pump should operate each time the engine passes the ignition timing mark. If not, fritzed Hall Sensor.

 

[Spud]

I’d start by checking the hall sensor. It’s a long time since mine failed but I think the process is:

Remove plugs
Switch ignition on
Listen for fuel pump prime
Put in high gear
Turn rear wheel to turn engine over
The fuel pump should operate each time the engine passes the ignition timing mark. If not, fritzed Hall Sensor.

Well, after leaving the plugs out to let it all dry out overnight.
Tested the Hall sensor as mentioned above, pump cycles on and off as described. Still a good spark too.
But trying to start it just results in wet (petrol) plugs, but no firing ...
I'm at a total loss now, I don't understand it ....


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[DrFarkoff]

Well, after leaving the plugs out to let it all dry out overnight.
Tested the Hall sensor as mentioned above, pump cycles on and off as described. Still a good spark too.
But trying to start it just results in wet (petrol) plugs, but no firing ...
I'm at a total loss now, I don't understand it ....


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firstly and I am sorry but it has to be asked!!! Have you checked that the throttles are both closed??
The cable sitting out of place (1 of 4 places!) thing, allows the motor to spin over even with good fuel spray and good spark but just not want to start unless you manually open the throttle and then it farts and bangs and sometimes drops back down, into place or you have to pick which of the 4 recepticales it has not sat back into and click it back in

So Lead us up to the issue??

what was the last thing / Change that you did/ happened before it would not start ??

Has it got any compression ?? Did you do a valve clearance adjustment and maybe do them 180 degrees out ?

I have actually seen that a couple of times!

EDIT Other thoughts!

What colour is the spark at the plugs ?? The only colours that will work is clean crisp purple or blue! Red, Greens, Yellow, Whites, Mean the plugs are shagged usually from starting an engine through the winter without bringing it to full working temp to burn off the extra fuel from a cold start, I have had to sort this for people many times over the years so much so I tell them add stabil / fuel stabiliser of your choice Fill the tank ride it around for 15 to 20 mins, Let it cool, Wash it and put it away and disconnect the battery Blow up the tyres to 60 psi and prop it off the floor and cover with blankets and leave it alone until you intend to ride it! Even teh BM manual says Start the engine and ride off and do not idle

The Loads of fuel thing is interesting Any chance you have NOT snicked the return line QR coupling back into the tank side completely,
If that is the case then there is no fuel relief valve to keep pressure at 2 ish bar and just full pressure (Whatever the pump can push) in the line ?? A usual indication of this is a heavier than normal "groan" of the fuel pump when you switch on !

AND finally I think this is unlikely as you keep saying wet plugs, but open the fuel tank cap (Obviously taking precautions not to Blow oneself up Old Chap!) and turn on the ignition and listen for a spray inside the tank

 

[Spud]

firstly and I am sorry but it has to be asked Have you checked that the throttles are both closed?? The cable sitting out of place (1 of 3 places!) thing Will allows the motor to spin over even with good fuel spray and good spark but just not want to start unless you manually open the throttle and then it farts and bangs and sometimes drops back down


So Lead us up to the issue

what was the last thing / Change that you did/ happened before it would not start ??

Has it got any compression ?? Did you do a valve clearance adjustment and maybe do them 180 degrees out ?

I have actually seen that a couple of times!

Also The Loads of fuel thing is interesting Any chance you have NOT snicked the return line QR coupling back into the tank side completely,
If that is the case then there is no fuel relief valve to keep pressure at 2 ish bar and just full pressure (Whatever the pump can push) in the line ?? A usual indication of this is a heavier than normal "groan" of the fuel pump when you switch on !

All good advice and thank you. This is the thing. Id done nothing to it at all. She started and ran like a swiss watch about 6 weeks ago. No issues at all. Switched off and left, battery on tender occasionally...
Then came to start the other day and just won't fire...
Changed the fuel, checked for a spark, tested Hall sensor as suggested about, but nothing. Turns over, but just won't fire ?

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[DrFarkoff]

@Spud I added in a few extra thoughts in the last post for you to have a look at All cheap and all easy checks

One other Idea Carefully disconnect the TPS connection and let it hang and just use the fast idle lever (if it works) or crack the throttle about an 1/8 of an inch and just press the starter button

Does it start then?? TPS out of spec or tracked short to higher fuel range

 

[DrFarkoff]

All good advice and thank you. This is the thing. Id done nothing to it at all. She started and ran like a swiss watch about 6 weeks ago. No issues at all. Switched off and left, battery on tender occasionally...
Then came to start the other day and just won't fire...
Changed the fuel, checked for a spark, tested Hall sensor as suggested about, but nothing. Turns over, but just won't fire ?

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How long did you run it for ??
Was it quite cold out there ??

What colour is the spark now ??

And Did you lift the tank to fit the battery connections for the Tender Hence the Check the throttle cables are seated at all 4 places ?

 

[Steptoe]

I wondered that, but it's sparking and injecting ?? I thought a Hall sensor gone bad would kill one or both of those ?

I’ve had quite a few bikes that start and idle perfectly, but the instant you touch the throttle the engine instantly stopped.
So they had sparks and fuel.
All cured by fitting a new hall sensor.

Going through things logically it doesn’t make sense, but the hall sensors were the problem.
So don’t think because it has a spark and fuel the HS is ok.

 

[Spud]

Huge thanks to everyone for all your help....
I tried it with a booster pack yesterday but with no joy, but with clean dry plugs and given some time to dry out, she fired up pretty much straight away with a booster today, so after all that, it looks like the battery needs replacing....
At least something pretty simple to sort out....
HUGE thanks again to everyone for your inputs, really appreciated and I've learnt some things along the way ...

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[EVskiy]

Another shout for starter motor. Maybe a detached magnet?

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A gentle tap normally works wonders

 

[Reevo]

I I enjoyed reading that
Good you got it going
I’ll start on mine in a few days