intermittent fault in fuel injection system?

[west coast traveller]

Hope that some one is able to offer some advice here about the recent problem I had with the engine cutting out.........

R1150GS, 2003, Datatool system 3 fitted

I set of for work on the bike, filled the tank and after 8 miles of high speed riding the engine cut out. No warning-it was as if the ignition had been turned off. Checked the bike over, all warning lights on and correct and starter motor turning over but bike refused to start again- no "catching" or misfire just dead.

Went and got a trailer and got the bike home. Left it for a couple of days and still wouldn't start though turning over.

I then checked systems.

1. Good spark at plugs
2. Fuses and relays fine
3. Fuel pump priming
4. No fuel at injectors

Removed tank and traced Hall Sensor wiring, disconnected plug and checked for corrosion-nothing evident. Reconnected sensor plug, replaced tank, turned on the ignition, pressed starter and suprise suprise, the engine fired up running smoothly with no misfire.
I then took bike out for a 20 mile run to get up to temperature with no further reoccurence of cutting out. Seemed like mission accomplisged, however, it did leave me feeling uneasy that with the exception of a possible bad connection at the Hall sensor plug, I had been unable to identify what had caused the enging to stop in the first place.

Yesterday I removed the Hall sensor and did a continuity check on the wires a different points along the line. All was well and no signs of hard/brittle cable. Put back the same hall sensor and bike running fine.

The only thing I haven't tested is the actual Hall effect sensors but from looking on the forum and seeking other advice would I be right in thinking that there would be some signs of them breaking down e.g rough running or a complete failure to function which wouldn't automatically cure itself?

I've a feeling that this might end up being a "run it and see what happens" situation but I'm trying to cover all bases. The only other thing that I'm not clear about and have not checked is the fuel pressure valve which I assume is somewhere under the battery Box or ABS unit. The circuit diagram shows wiring for this but I'm not sure whether this is likely to be a problem.

I don't expect anyone will be able to give me the answer to the problem but I'd be grateful for any advice on whether I have missed something somewhere along the way- I'm always amazed at the information that this forum generates!

Here's hoping.................

 

[Steptoe]

4. No fuel at injectors

. The only other thing that I'm not clear about and have not checked is the fuel pressure valve which I assume is somewhere under the battery Box or ABS unit. The circuit diagram shows wiring for this but I'm not sure whether this is likely to be a problem.

The injectors also get a pulse via the hall sensors. You can test if it's getting one by plugging in a noide, or a test bulb into the injector supply plug.

No wiring for the fuel pressure valve, it's a mechanical device.

One of the symptoms of a failing hall sensor is failure when it's hot, then running normal again once it's cooled down, which then fails again when hot.

So it fails, you call the AA and when they arrive the engine has cooled down and it starts ok without any problem. You then wave them off shouting your undying love for the AA repairman and your utmost thanks.
So off you set again on your intrepid journey without a worry in the world. The engine gets hot, and the hall sensors cut out, again.

This time the AA man is very wary of your motives .

 

[west coast traveller]

The injectors also get a pulse via the hall sensors. You can test if it's getting one by plugging in a noide, or a test bulb into the injector supply plug.

No wiring for the fuel pressure valve, it's a mechanical device.

One of the symptoms of a failing hall sensor is failure when it's hot, then running normal again once it's cooled down, which then fails again when hot.

So it fails, you call the AA and when they arrive the engine has cooled down and it starts ok without any problem. You then wave them off shouting your undying love for the AA repairman and your utmost thanks.
So off you set again on your intrepid journey without a worry in the world. The engine gets hot, and the hall sensors cut out, again.

This time the AA man is very wary of your motives .

Many thanks Neil for the reply. Because the bike wouldn't start even though it had cooled down for a couple of days after the initial breakdown, I'd initially assumed that the sensor was kaput (only to find it fired up again when I'd checked the connectors and replaced the tank) or that it was some fault with the wiring. I'll follow your advice about the test.

(I remember once being stuck on a car park in Denbigh waiting for the AA for over 12 hours...undying love didn't come into it but that's another story!!)

 

[west coast traveller]

the continuing saga...........................

Well, I took the bike out again today for another test run. It had been firing up no problem since last week. After about 13 miles same problem reoccured i.e bike stopping as before with all warning lights etc working. This time there was a hint that the engine was trying to "catch" once or twice when turned over but wouldn't start. The only other thing I noticed was that the usual 2 second prime of the fuel pump sounded a bit different to normal and also repeated the "prime" when I switched the ignition off.

Anyways, got bike home and resigned that it was probably the Hall sensors causing the problem but tried the test at injectors with bulb as Steptoe advised. Result- bulb lighting consistantly at TDC. Also strong spark at plugs.
Plugs dry as a bone- no evidence of fuel being injected into the cylinders.

Plugs then removed and turned wheel whilst in gear. I'm not sure whether there is supposed to be just a single pulse from the fuel pump at TDC but my pump going through the "2 second prime cycle" at TDC and also at 180 degrees.

Whilst I'm willing to get a new set of sensors, I can't help but wonder whether there is a problem with the fuel pump (though I thought if it wasn't working correctly it wouldn't make any noise at all). If it's pointing to the pump/fuel feed I'll drain the tank and strip it down next week.

In the meantime, if anyone has any pearls of wisdom or experience of similar symptoms and is able to offer any advice I would be really thankful to hear from them.

"Head" still says Hall Effect Sensors!

 

[Pekkavee]

I put my money on Hall sensors anyway.

You can buy Honeywell Hall sensors 2AV54 as separate items as well.
2AV54 Sensor

However if it turn to be the pump you can find one with a reasonable price in here
Pump

Pekka

 

[DrFarkoff]

IF you are buying sensors I strongly advise you go with the 2av54 the last set of chengyeng CHXXXX I had were schite and a set of honeywell worked perfectly

 

[west coast traveller]

Thanks to you both. I had thought about the Chengyeng sensors but had read some bad reports. It's a pity that other than someone wanting to buy1000 sensors, no one in the UK seems to want to supply them. Still, 15 quid freight from USA aint too bad. The fuel pump will be ordered and fitted and who knows what will show up in the process!!
Happy Easter.............

 

[bmstan]

sensors

You have a pm

 

[west coast traveller]

You have a pm

Hope I'm not to late............

 

[west coast traveller]

Sorted! It didn't take this long to fix-I've only got round to testing it yesterday.
Problem was cured with two replacement hall effect sensors grafted onto the old plate and wiring- cost approx £30. Many thanks for all the advice which was gladly received and to bmstan for ordering the bits.

For future reference in case anyone isn't clear, Honeywell 2AV54 sensors are a direct replacement for R1150 twinspark sensors marked 410 3027 MS2- well if they aren't, they work anyway!!