fringe
Registered user
Do you need to apply the brake to stop the bike rolling with the clutch all the way in while stationary (and both wheels on the ground)?
Is this normal !
- Thread starter DING-DONG
- Start date
I'd like all owners of the NEW HEAVY FLYWHEEL ENGINE, place the bike on the centre stand, run it upto temp, pull the clutch lever in and engage 1st gear and whilst holding the clutch lever in Does the rear wheel start to spin to a point you cannot stop it by hand !
No, if your stood aside the bike whilst both wheels are on the ground and engage 1st it jolts and clonks, if the clutch is not fully disengaged (could plates be sticking !) and its not because the rear wheel starts to spin with the clutch lever in + you cannot stop it by hand so when you change gear you will get the excessive clonk and harsh gear changes, it did not do this previously.
Grim Reaper
Registered user
There's a thread running over on ADVRider regarding a clutch failure on a GSLC, when the owner took the cap off the clutch reservoir, it pi55ed fluid out.
I reckon too much fluid in the reservoir after service mech topped it up and then plates bedding in have caused an excess of fluid in the reservoir, with no way out this has caused the clutch to not fully engage and I think, start to slip, overheat and ultimately fail.
It looks like yours is doing the opposite, not disengaging fully. Likely not bled properly on assembly or mis adjusted.
As others have suggested, I would flush, refill and bleed the clutch line, make adjustments to ensure the clutch fully disengages, then leave a space in the reservoir to allow fluid to fill it up as plates bed in. Keep an eye on the level and don't let it get too high, treat the level marker as a max fill after use not a minimum fill before use.
I reckon too much fluid in the reservoir after service mech topped it up and then plates bedding in have caused an excess of fluid in the reservoir, with no way out this has caused the clutch to not fully engage and I think, start to slip, overheat and ultimately fail.
It looks like yours is doing the opposite, not disengaging fully. Likely not bled properly on assembly or mis adjusted.
As others have suggested, I would flush, refill and bleed the clutch line, make adjustments to ensure the clutch fully disengages, then leave a space in the reservoir to allow fluid to fill it up as plates bed in. Keep an eye on the level and don't let it get too high, treat the level marker as a max fill after use not a minimum fill before use.
nope doesn't turn but does make a loud clunk when it goes into gear and try going from first to second and half the time it struggles to engage.
KTM 1190 Adventure R came to mine .....
they're not trouble free ....
No mine dosent with clutch pulled in the wheel actually slows down and then stops I can easily stop the wheel with my foot too. Also in gear and clutch pulled in but engine not running I can wheel my bike along.
Terry
The plot thickens !
Called BMW UK, spoke to a customer service manager from andy cooks office, she asked me to forward the pictures and the description, did that yesterday, got a call back today she said she spoke directly to a motorrad tech manager whom is rd based and his email suggested because the bike has a wet clutch there will be some drag, you cannot stop the wheel by hand so how they think thats correct I'm puzzled they said this is to be expected with this type of clutch and it will clonk, I asked what about the fact it lurches forward when changing gear from 2-3 @ 40mph, he said that should be looked at. So despite another BMW dealer whom looked at the bike and said it does not look right, BMW UK think it is ok !
I stated my other 2 wc bikes did not operate in this manner and neither did the 2014 GSA demo and this new engine is actually more corse than the engine removed from the bike, They said if BMW feel that the new is an improvement (modifications) from the old engine than basically tuff.
This is my thoughts on why the gears clonk and drags, when the engine is cold the oil acts as a coolant around the clutch/friction plates so the gearbox is fine and there is no drag so the oil is lubricating the plates doing its job and allowing them to disengage freely, now when the engine is up to temp the oil is to hot the plates maybe sticking ! So not allowing them to disengage so you will get drag when in gear and every gear change will be harsh because the plates are not disengaging !
I personally feel it needs either bleeding (but I'm sure thats been done correctly the tech is very keen) or a complete clutch .
The kill time on the shift assist is fooking awful now the heavy flywheel does not allow for instant shifts as per the old light flywheel engine, because the heavy flywheel takes much more to spin up it means when i use shift assist the bike dips because there's to much lag.
Does seem BMW have not solved the problem especially after telling me its normal, i think its a cop out.
But its not over, while it has warranty it will never be over, unless they buy it back ! its going back to the dealer tomorrow hopefully they will fix it until the nxt time.
Called BMW UK, spoke to a customer service manager from andy cooks office, she asked me to forward the pictures and the description, did that yesterday, got a call back today she said she spoke directly to a motorrad tech manager whom is rd based and his email suggested because the bike has a wet clutch there will be some drag, you cannot stop the wheel by hand so how they think thats correct I'm puzzled they said this is to be expected with this type of clutch and it will clonk, I asked what about the fact it lurches forward when changing gear from 2-3 @ 40mph, he said that should be looked at. So despite another BMW dealer whom looked at the bike and said it does not look right, BMW UK think it is ok !
I stated my other 2 wc bikes did not operate in this manner and neither did the 2014 GSA demo and this new engine is actually more corse than the engine removed from the bike, They said if BMW feel that the new is an improvement (modifications) from the old engine than basically tuff.
This is my thoughts on why the gears clonk and drags, when the engine is cold the oil acts as a coolant around the clutch/friction plates so the gearbox is fine and there is no drag so the oil is lubricating the plates doing its job and allowing them to disengage freely, now when the engine is up to temp the oil is to hot the plates maybe sticking ! So not allowing them to disengage so you will get drag when in gear and every gear change will be harsh because the plates are not disengaging !
I personally feel it needs either bleeding (but I'm sure thats been done correctly the tech is very keen) or a complete clutch .
The kill time on the shift assist is fooking awful now the heavy flywheel does not allow for instant shifts as per the old light flywheel engine, because the heavy flywheel takes much more to spin up it means when i use shift assist the bike dips because there's to much lag.
Does seem BMW have not solved the problem especially after telling me its normal, i think its a cop out.
But its not over, while it has warranty it will never be over, unless they buy it back ! its going back to the dealer tomorrow hopefully they will fix it until the nxt time.
so you found the same relation between clutch drag and temperature as me in the end?
Adhesion is heavilly dependant on temperature, so the higher it is the lower adhesion force you have between objects, in this case clutch plates and lubricant. Maybe engine temperature is not the problem here, but amount of oil which fills clutch plates.
My engine when doesn't reach 50C, makes really subtle clunk into 1st gear, but that goes away after riding minute or so. I remember reading some people reports that draining oil to lowest level make gear shifts much smoother, and I heard that from my dealer when they were testing my bike after gearbox replacement, that they started with lowest level and were topping up to maximum while checking if this doesn't cause will to spin ( as per our central stand test). I haven't actually checked my oil level since picking up my bike 3 weeks ago, so I'm not sure at what level I got it from them! I'll find out tomorrow, but so far wheel doesn't spin, although gear changes are not always nice....
Adhesion is heavilly dependant on temperature, so the higher it is the lower adhesion force you have between objects, in this case clutch plates and lubricant. Maybe engine temperature is not the problem here, but amount of oil which fills clutch plates.
My engine when doesn't reach 50C, makes really subtle clunk into 1st gear, but that goes away after riding minute or so. I remember reading some people reports that draining oil to lowest level make gear shifts much smoother, and I heard that from my dealer when they were testing my bike after gearbox replacement, that they started with lowest level and were topping up to maximum while checking if this doesn't cause will to spin ( as per our central stand test). I haven't actually checked my oil level since picking up my bike 3 weeks ago, so I'm not sure at what level I got it from them! I'll find out tomorrow, but so far wheel doesn't spin, although gear changes are not always nice....
Clutch Drag
Tried my 2015 spec bike, with heavier flywheel,no clutch drag at all, wheel does not move even when reved. Gear change smooth and precice, totally different to my March 2013 bike.
Tried my 2015 spec bike, with heavier flywheel,no clutch drag at all, wheel does not move even when reved. Gear change smooth and precice, totally different to my March 2013 bike.
Well ! the tech manager from BMW UK (no names) and the dealer stated its normal for the wheel to spin sorry DRAG and the lurch at 40mph from 2nd - 3rd using the shift assist is also normal, they have both rode my bike and said its the characteristic of the new engine.
Now I've been fitting quickshifters kits to gs bikes well before bm, bikes such as - 1150 - 800gs - 2 twin cams and even my translogic shifter i fitted on my first 2013 bike, well before shift assist was out and they did not lurch because i adjusted the kill time correctly to suit the engine characteristics. The new engine, the flywheel is heavier and so the shift pro is not set up correctly. BUT WHAT DO I NO IM JUST FRED IN HIS SHED.
Also as my bike is a 2014 bike i should have had a like for like engine and not a heavy flywheel engine, after i rode the GSA demo i did not like the heavy engine and that alone and several other reason put a stop to trading up, but seems now i got something i did not want and its not as refined as my 2014 engine.
Gsman1 as your bike is doing what it should not be doing, you must have a fault with it, I'd advise you to take it straight back and tell the dealer the man from BMW UK said its normal for the rear wheel to spin and yours don't mate so must have something wrong with it
david a hall
Registered user
You willbe getting an envelope soon from BMW with a Honda voucher in it.
Tbh honest i think it would do them and myself a favour if i fooked off !
got my new 2015 gs yesterday and i was playing with the gear assist up the motorway and on the back roads on the short journey home, like dave says 2-3 is a bit of a pot luck job but might get better when i get the hang of it, i did find that its more user friendly and certainly a lot smoother if you use it from 3-4-5-6 and the same going down, overall im very impressed, love the keyless ride..i wont leave my keys in the bike anymore, like ive done on more than one occation
and i was playing with the gear assist up the motorway and on the back roads on the short journey home, like dave says 2-3 is a bit of a pot luck job but might get better when i get the hang of it, i did find that its more user friendly and certainly a lot smoother if you use it from 3-4-5-6 and the same going down, overall im very impressed, love the keyless ride..i wont leave my keys in the bike anymore, like ive done on more than one occation
I have a very early standard no frills 2013 LC, it clonks into 1st but otherwise the gear change is pretty good, different to my previous Twin-cam and took some adapting to, but now after 21,000 miles it is pretty sweet once you adapt to its quirks - some clutch drag can give a little lurch when starting from cold with the clutch lever all the way back to the bar, but really it is nothing to worry about.
I have since ridden 2 other LCs both 2014 bikes as loaners while mine was being serviced and they both behaved almost identically to mine, also tested the clutch drag on a bloke's 2013 bike bought within a day of me getting mine in March 2013 and it is identical.
Like all mass produced mechanical devices there will inevitably be a few real fails, but I am still finding it hard to believe that there are a large number of bikes with serious gearbox/clutch problems as they are all built out of the same parts.
The heavier flywheel thing is a red herring, my understanding is that the reason the mass was increased was to give slightly smoother running at low revs - I can understand that, but it is a compromise isn't it? mass of flywheel versus how quickly you want the engine to 'spin up'. I haven't tried a heavier flywheel bike but my early bike feels just about right to me for a large capacity twin.
I cant comment of the shift assist thingy because I have ridden a bike with it - but the GS doesn't really need such a gadget does it?
I have since ridden 2 other LCs both 2014 bikes as loaners while mine was being serviced and they both behaved almost identically to mine, also tested the clutch drag on a bloke's 2013 bike bought within a day of me getting mine in March 2013 and it is identical.
Like all mass produced mechanical devices there will inevitably be a few real fails, but I am still finding it hard to believe that there are a large number of bikes with serious gearbox/clutch problems as they are all built out of the same parts.
The heavier flywheel thing is a red herring, my understanding is that the reason the mass was increased was to give slightly smoother running at low revs - I can understand that, but it is a compromise isn't it? mass of flywheel versus how quickly you want the engine to 'spin up'. I haven't tried a heavier flywheel bike but my early bike feels just about right to me for a large capacity twin.
I cant comment of the shift assist thingy because I have ridden a bike with it - but the GS doesn't really need such a gadget does it?
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