Joe McNamara - a hero?
- Thread starter GerryC
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the celt
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lets be honest Gerry, the only reason its all went tits up
was because of greed, not only on the Bankers part but also
on Mr Joe Soap from Ballymun....
Lets get a bigger telly...sure da aul one is still going... aah but
sure well have HD.... i'll put it on me credit card... wait till Mary see
this..... sure she'll be green
was because of greed, not only on the Bankers part but also
on Mr Joe Soap from Ballymun....
Lets get a bigger telly...sure da aul one is still going... aah but
sure well have HD.... i'll put it on me credit card... wait till Mary see
this..... sure she'll be green
Bohsfc
Registered user
And Bertie and Mc Creevy fueled the whole F***in lot for personal and popularity gain and were in Seanies and Fingers pockets but are not taken the stick for all this in the way they should.
the celt
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And Bertie and Mc Creevy fueled the whole F***in lot and were in Seanies and Fingers pockets but are not taken the stick for all this in the way they should.
Now you know as well as meself that the average fella on the
street when it was all going well, though to them self far play on aul
Bertie ta be getting away with it
Bohsfc
Registered user
No, Wud disagree. Always knew he was a cheating gud for nothing W***ER.
Never a Fianna Fail voter so was never blinded by any of them.
Gizmo
Registered user
I dont buy this
I dont buy the government spin that joe soap and his missus were digging us into a huge hole.They contributed, but not on the scale that we are led to believe. Thats spun to convince you to carry the bail out. The facts are that 20 individuals racked up approx 24 billion of the debt. So lets jail these 20 and default on the loans.
That leaves the bond holder haircut of approx 6-8 billion minimum, let them take the hit.
The balance we can dicuss with the shareholders, senior bond holders and Joe soap and his wife about how we sort this f**k up out.
Finally investigate those at the top for negligence( as Iceland is doing) and then we might resore some credibility with the markets and more importantly with the citizens of this nation.
It makes my blood boil to listen to those sanctimonious f**kwits in Fianna Fail and the Greens blame everyone except their own quite blantant incompetence for the hole we find ourselves in. I'm just sorry the cement truck was empty and that we could'nt seal the whole lot of them in Leinster house and start again.
Roll on the election, if any FF or Green canvasser spends more than 1 nanosecond on my property I will ring the Garda and attempt to have them charged with trespass or "criminal damage" of my grass.I reckon about equal to the "criminal damage" to the gates of Leinster House.
I dont buy the government spin that joe soap and his missus were digging us into a huge hole.They contributed, but not on the scale that we are led to believe. Thats spun to convince you to carry the bail out. The facts are that 20 individuals racked up approx 24 billion of the debt. So lets jail these 20 and default on the loans.
That leaves the bond holder haircut of approx 6-8 billion minimum, let them take the hit.
The balance we can dicuss with the shareholders, senior bond holders and Joe soap and his wife about how we sort this f**k up out.
Finally investigate those at the top for negligence( as Iceland is doing) and then we might resore some credibility with the markets and more importantly with the citizens of this nation.
It makes my blood boil to listen to those sanctimonious f**kwits in Fianna Fail and the Greens blame everyone except their own quite blantant incompetence for the hole we find ourselves in. I'm just sorry the cement truck was empty and that we could'nt seal the whole lot of them in Leinster house and start again.
Roll on the election, if any FF or Green canvasser spends more than 1 nanosecond on my property I will ring the Garda and attempt to have them charged with trespass or "criminal damage" of my grass.I reckon about equal to the "criminal damage" to the gates of Leinster House.
richie
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I dont buy the government spin that joe soap and his missus were digging us into a huge hole.They contributed, but not on the scale that we are led to believe. Thats spun to convince you to carry the bail out. The facts are that 20 individuals racked up approx 24 billion of the debt. So lets jail these 20 and default on the loans.
That leaves the bond holder haircut of approx 6-8 billion minimum, let them take the hit.
The balance we can dicuss with the shareholders, senior bond holders and Joe soap and his wife about how we sort this f**k up out.
Finally investigate those at the top for negligence( as Iceland is doing) and then we might resore some credibility with the markets and more importantly with the citizens of this nation.
It makes my blood boil to listen to those sanctimonious f**kwits in Fianna Fail and the Greens blame everyone except their own quite blantant incompetence for the hole we find ourselves in. I'm just sorry the cement truck was empty and that we could'nt seal the whole lot of them in Leinster house and start again.
Roll on the election, if any FF or Green canvasser spends more than 1 nanosecond on my property I will ring the Garda and attempt to have them charged with trespass or "criminal damage" of my grass.I reckon about equal to the "criminal damage" to the gates of Leinster House.
good stuff
Bohsfc
Registered user
I dont buy the government spin that joe soap and his missus were digging us into a huge hole.They contributed, but not on the scale that we are led to believe. Thats spun to convince you to carry the bail out. The facts are that 20 individuals racked up approx 24 billion of the debt. So lets jail these 20 and default on the loans.
That leaves the bond holder haircut of approx 6-8 billion minimum, let them take the hit.
The balance we can dicuss with the shareholders, senior bond holders and Joe soap and his wife about how we sort this f**k up out.
Finally investigate those at the top for negligence( as Iceland is doing) and then we might resore some credibility with the markets and more importantly with the citizens of this nation.
It makes my blood boil to listen to those sanctimonious f**kwits in Fianna Fail and the Greens blame everyone except their own quite blantant incompetence for the hole we find ourselves in. I'm just sorry the cement truck was empty and that we could'nt seal the whole lot of them in Leinster house and start again.
Roll on the election, if any FF or Green canvasser spends more than 1 nanosecond on my property I will ring the Garda and attempt to have them charged with trespass or "criminal damage" of my grass.I reckon about equal to the "criminal damage" to the gates of Leinster House.
There will be no investigation in this country cause it will only turn up (if conducted truthfully
) the fact that every Fianna Fail Minister was in cohoots with the bankers and were more than happy for their own personal gain, to go along with the whole charade.Roll on the election til I get a swing of whatever is to hand accross the head of any Fianna Fail candidate or supporter that comes within reach of my hall door
the celt
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Gizmo this is not some goverment spin, this is comes from meself somebody that had to leave Dublin because of lack of work, its just a honest opinion, do you know Ive a wee book in the house that i reread i few days ago to me wee nephew (hes three) and he understood the textile story in it, this is the same copy as i have here, infact i might put it up for sale along with me other books ive for sale. (PLUG) ;-)
9
I often quote Jean Kennedy Smith, when asked, as she left the position of American Ambassaror to Ireland, about the Irish people. She replied "The Irish have no sense of outrage"
We get cowboys and muppets because we expext cowboys and muppets and we vote for cowboys and muppets.
Consequences. People must be held accountable for their actions. That developer in the cement mixer knowingly took a chance that didn't work out. He can't, by his actions, suggest that the wrong was done to him and that he's a victim. We're the victims of his greed and that of all the developers, developers bankers and the ministers that didn't govern.
Banks are companies, charged with generating maximum profits for their shareholders but they are charged with maximising those profits over the term of the loan, not just the year of drawdown. The senior bankers who oversaw the "short term gain, pray for the future" policy failed to act as prudent bankers. They should not retire with millions. They should not be rewarded for failing to do their job.
The developers, including the guy in the truck, took a chance, failed and should not escape the consequences, sitting in millionaires houses. Does the guy in the truck live in a three bed semi?
The greatest responsibility, however, lies with those who governed while the bubble inflated.
It was great at first. It then grew to an obvious bubble. The developers and bankers took the opportunities to maximise profits, line their pockets and secure their future.
The tax regime in place facilitated and encouraged it and few of us will turn our nose up at a chance to make money in the short term FOR OURSELVES.
Governing the country is about maximising opportunities in a SUSTAINABLE manner for ALL the people of the country, with minimal risk.
This Government, Bertie the Bollox in particular, governed for the short term for the few.
Consequences. These ministers should not retire on generous pensions, having failed in the job they were handsomely paid to do.
Back to Jean Kennedy Smiths quote.... No outrage, no consequesces, no real change. Why would they. We got the cowboys and muppets we expected and voted for (I didn't.)...and they will be voted for again. J.K.S was so right.
We get cowboys and muppets because we expext cowboys and muppets and we vote for cowboys and muppets.
Consequences. People must be held accountable for their actions. That developer in the cement mixer knowingly took a chance that didn't work out. He can't, by his actions, suggest that the wrong was done to him and that he's a victim. We're the victims of his greed and that of all the developers, developers bankers and the ministers that didn't govern.
Banks are companies, charged with generating maximum profits for their shareholders but they are charged with maximising those profits over the term of the loan, not just the year of drawdown. The senior bankers who oversaw the "short term gain, pray for the future" policy failed to act as prudent bankers. They should not retire with millions. They should not be rewarded for failing to do their job.
The developers, including the guy in the truck, took a chance, failed and should not escape the consequences, sitting in millionaires houses. Does the guy in the truck live in a three bed semi?
The greatest responsibility, however, lies with those who governed while the bubble inflated.
It was great at first. It then grew to an obvious bubble. The developers and bankers took the opportunities to maximise profits, line their pockets and secure their future.
The tax regime in place facilitated and encouraged it and few of us will turn our nose up at a chance to make money in the short term FOR OURSELVES.
Governing the country is about maximising opportunities in a SUSTAINABLE manner for ALL the people of the country, with minimal risk.
This Government, Bertie the Bollox in particular, governed for the short term for the few.
Consequences. These ministers should not retire on generous pensions, having failed in the job they were handsomely paid to do.
Back to Jean Kennedy Smiths quote.... No outrage, no consequesces, no real change. Why would they. We got the cowboys and muppets we expected and voted for (I didn't.)...and they will be voted for again. J.K.S was so right.
An investigation into the competencies/criminality of Ahern/Cowen and co. in government, the Central Bank, the Financial Regulator, Dept of Finance, and the Banking sector would restore some credibility to our economy, but only if the feckers found guilty did serious time in jail.
The main people to immediately gain from this would be the legal profession, and it is in their interest to drag it out for 20 years.
Its never going to happen!
Incredibly, 23% of ****wits in this country would vote FF in again.
We get what we deserve.
The main people to immediately gain from this would be the legal profession, and it is in their interest to drag it out for 20 years.
Its never going to happen!
Incredibly, 23% of ****wits in this country would vote FF in again.
We get what we deserve.
Bohsfc
Registered user
Just to correct you 'Kamikazee', there was no 'BUBBLE'. It was all totally fictitious and lead by Bertie and Mc Creevey for their popularity gains.
You are right Damien, we do get what we deserve and to see FF go back up in the ratings in the last poll by 3% just enrages me even more at how braindead a nation we are.
Corporal Punishment
Registered user
I dont buy the government spin that joe soap and his missus were digging us into a huge hole.They contributed, but not on the scale that we are led to believe. Thats spun to convince you to carry the bail out. The facts are that 20 individuals racked up approx 24 billion of the debt. So lets jail these 20 and default on the loans.
That leaves the bond holder haircut of approx 6-8 billion minimum, let them take the hit.
The balance we can dicuss with the shareholders, senior bond holders and Joe soap and his wife about how we sort this f**k up out.
Finally investigate those at the top for negligence( as Iceland is doing) and then we might resore some credibility with the markets and more importantly with the citizens of this nation.
It makes my blood boil to listen to those sanctimonious f**kwits in Fianna Fail and the Greens blame everyone except their own quite blantant incompetence for the hole we find ourselves in. I'm just sorry the cement truck was empty and that we could'nt seal the whole lot of them in Leinster house and start again.
Roll on the election, if any FF or Green canvasser spends more than 1 nanosecond on my property I will ring the Garda and attempt to have them charged with trespass or "criminal damage" of my grass.I reckon about equal to the "criminal damage" to the gates of Leinster House.
I agree 100%. I plan on telling my local FF candidate ( who's actually not bad ) that I consider a vote for him the same as a vote for cowan and lenihan, so while it's nothing personal. he wont be getting my vote.
not likely
I won't be supporting Joe McNamara for two reasons.
1. I don't want to see unrest on the streets and people taking matters into their own hands. this will get people hurt and cost the country (you and me) a lot more money in the long run.
2. I don't have any sympathy for someone who was inextricably involved in the property rip off that has got us into this mess.
I am not a supporter of any party. Nor will I be. I don't think any of them can do better than the incompetent shower in government now. But I will ask you to remember Bertie's "Suicide" comment of 2007 where he castigated those people who were warning of the Shite he was getting us into. I would also point out that Michael Lowry topped the poll after he was caught out, when he should have gone to jail.
We get what we vote for.
I won't be supporting Joe McNamara for two reasons.
1. I don't want to see unrest on the streets and people taking matters into their own hands. this will get people hurt and cost the country (you and me) a lot more money in the long run.
2. I don't have any sympathy for someone who was inextricably involved in the property rip off that has got us into this mess.
I am not a supporter of any party. Nor will I be. I don't think any of them can do better than the incompetent shower in government now. But I will ask you to remember Bertie's "Suicide" comment of 2007 where he castigated those people who were warning of the Shite he was getting us into. I would also point out that Michael Lowry topped the poll after he was caught out, when he should have gone to jail.
We get what we vote for.
political lamb to the slaughter here / can only give my personal perspective.
I'm one of the seemingly loathed 'Public Servants'.
took the job for the security and long term benefits.
spent many years working (yes - really - some Public Servants do ) on a lower rate than private sector as 'benchmarking' would improve our lot if we gave (more work) as good as we got (wages brought up to private sector levels).
Now,
I do more for less as i've a 10 to 15% reduction in wages, no overtime to be had and i retire later on a lower pension.
Net result is approx 20 / 25% less in my pay packet every week.
i am outraged.
That my naive simplistic outlook let me be shafted by those that knew better (hah!).
i trusted my financial future to them and now I am supposed to bail them out?!
It's like telling a kid to save their pocket money and then spending it on them and telling them - YOU have to pay it back!
Oh - and in the last 'recession' i was a newly wed Father with no job, no hope and no future. I DO well appreciate that i am one of the lucky ones... this time around.
A little help would do a hell of a lot for those now on the bottom of the pile.
gods help them - for the government certainly wont
I'm one of the seemingly loathed 'Public Servants'.
took the job for the security and long term benefits.
spent many years working (yes - really - some Public Servants do
) on a lower rate than private sector as 'benchmarking' would improve our lot if we gave (more work) as good as we got (wages brought up to private sector levels).Now,
I do more for less as i've a 10 to 15% reduction in wages, no overtime to be had and i retire later on a lower pension.
Net result is approx 20 / 25% less in my pay packet every week.
i am outraged.
That my naive simplistic outlook let me be shafted by those that knew better (hah!).
i trusted my financial future to them and now I am supposed to bail them out?!
It's like telling a kid to save their pocket money and then spending it on them and telling them - YOU have to pay it back!
Oh - and in the last 'recession' i was a newly wed Father with no job, no hope and no future. I DO well appreciate that i am one of the lucky ones... this time around.
A little help would do a hell of a lot for those now on the bottom of the pile.
gods help them - for the government certainly wont
Last edited:
Gizmo
Registered user
Not a swipe at you Celt
I was'nt having a cut at you Celt, I know you are not a FF spindoctor!
My point is that the Government PR (propaganda) machine is in overdrive to convince us that this mess is all our own fault, that everyone is to blame.That is how they will herd the citizens of this country into agreeing that the bank bailout has to be borne by all.The facts are are long way from this.
Just consider this,
1. The Government gave 3 billion to AIB two days ago., yet if you bought all the shares at the market rate it would cost us 600 million for the bank. Why then today does the taxpayer not own 100% of this bank?
2. When NAMA was established another agency was established called the SPV, special purpose vehicle( not a 4WD for crossing a bog). The SPV has control of the assets within NAMA. Cast your mind back, we handed over millions in the first tranche of loans handed over to NAMA and the price paid is accepted by all as having been above the market value for the assets. The SPV was set up to keep the cost of NAMA off our sovereign debt. Control of the assets within NAMA was by the SPV and guess what, for a miserly 51 million euro the banks bought CONTROL (51%) but not the liability of these assets back. If you check out the SPV you will see BOI and its associated insurance companies and AIB and its associated insurance companies are the two dominant shareholders. So what did we achive from this exercise? Did it keep the cost of impaired assets off the sovereign debt? NO
It effectively gave the banks a chunk of our cash for a crock of S**te and then for pennies gave them control back just in case something is rescued from the wreckage, because in that scenario they get to pick up a percentage bonus!!
3. Property developers were taking advantage of tax breaks introduced by a FF government and rolling over developments to avoid paying tax, effectively with the full knowledge and collusion of the government. By turning the monumental private speculative debt incurred by these people into sovereign debt we (the taxpayer)are effectively paying for the speculative excesses and gambling of a priveliged elite. Is it any wonder the markets are whipping us with interest rates? It is crystal clear that the ruling elite are either trying to manipulate the rules of capitalism to THEIR benefit or they have absolutely no idea about economics and the markets.
4. We are now raiding the national piggy bank ( the same piggy bank that was raided to fund the SSIA scheme and buy an election with your own cash..think about that) to keep a low profile until next June and not going to the markets with a bond issue until then. These consummate bluffers in their twilight world are hoping that another country will be in deep doo doo before we go looking for cash again so we might slip in under the radar or that everyone will have forgotten us. The markets are waiting to whip us again. And why? Because we dont apply the basic rules of capitalism as understood by everyone except FF- High Risk = High Reward, Venture collapses= lose your stake.
Even when we kick them out, and it is a no brainer that we will,they have left a ticking potential IMF timebomb for the next government to deal with.
Folks, Mr Lenihan asked us all to do our Patriotic Duty when this crisis broke, so lets give him his wish and kick this cabal of scroundrels into the political wilderness for at least 15 years to reflect on their sins, learn some humility and force them to reform their cute hoor party to return to politics in the service of those that elect them, not vested interests.Vent your righteous anger, these fools have grievously damaged our nation.
I am not a member of any political party, just a very angry and pissed off citizen that has watched his country being destroyed twice by these FF F**kwits in the last 30 years. Do it for your children, they deserve all that this country has to offer. I am going to do it for mine.
I was'nt having a cut at you Celt, I know you are not a FF spindoctor!
My point is that the Government PR (propaganda) machine is in overdrive to convince us that this mess is all our own fault, that everyone is to blame.That is how they will herd the citizens of this country into agreeing that the bank bailout has to be borne by all.The facts are are long way from this.
Just consider this,
1. The Government gave 3 billion to AIB two days ago., yet if you bought all the shares at the market rate it would cost us 600 million for the bank. Why then today does the taxpayer not own 100% of this bank?
2. When NAMA was established another agency was established called the SPV, special purpose vehicle( not a 4WD for crossing a bog). The SPV has control of the assets within NAMA. Cast your mind back, we handed over millions in the first tranche of loans handed over to NAMA and the price paid is accepted by all as having been above the market value for the assets. The SPV was set up to keep the cost of NAMA off our sovereign debt. Control of the assets within NAMA was by the SPV and guess what, for a miserly 51 million euro the banks bought CONTROL (51%) but not the liability of these assets back. If you check out the SPV you will see BOI and its associated insurance companies and AIB and its associated insurance companies are the two dominant shareholders. So what did we achive from this exercise? Did it keep the cost of impaired assets off the sovereign debt? NO
It effectively gave the banks a chunk of our cash for a crock of S**te and then for pennies gave them control back just in case something is rescued from the wreckage, because in that scenario they get to pick up a percentage bonus!!
3. Property developers were taking advantage of tax breaks introduced by a FF government and rolling over developments to avoid paying tax, effectively with the full knowledge and collusion of the government. By turning the monumental private speculative debt incurred by these people into sovereign debt we (the taxpayer)are effectively paying for the speculative excesses and gambling of a priveliged elite. Is it any wonder the markets are whipping us with interest rates? It is crystal clear that the ruling elite are either trying to manipulate the rules of capitalism to THEIR benefit or they have absolutely no idea about economics and the markets.
4. We are now raiding the national piggy bank ( the same piggy bank that was raided to fund the SSIA scheme and buy an election with your own cash..think about that) to keep a low profile until next June and not going to the markets with a bond issue until then. These consummate bluffers in their twilight world are hoping that another country will be in deep doo doo before we go looking for cash again so we might slip in under the radar or that everyone will have forgotten us. The markets are waiting to whip us again. And why? Because we dont apply the basic rules of capitalism as understood by everyone except FF- High Risk = High Reward, Venture collapses= lose your stake.
Even when we kick them out, and it is a no brainer that we will,they have left a ticking potential IMF timebomb for the next government to deal with.
Folks, Mr Lenihan asked us all to do our Patriotic Duty when this crisis broke, so lets give him his wish and kick this cabal of scroundrels into the political wilderness for at least 15 years to reflect on their sins, learn some humility and force them to reform their cute hoor party to return to politics in the service of those that elect them, not vested interests.Vent your righteous anger, these fools have grievously damaged our nation.
I am not a member of any political party, just a very angry and pissed off citizen that has watched his country being destroyed twice by these FF F**kwits in the last 30 years. Do it for your children, they deserve all that this country has to offer. I am going to do it for mine.
Well said, Gizmo. Not a disputable word in that. 
the celt
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From what i can remember way back when i brought me house it was 2 and half times my wages and 1 and half her wage now this is going back 20 years, and i got the house for 22,000. Now i hav'nt got a clue where all this new found wealth in Ireland came from, was there gold found in Meath ? Did we hit Oil in the bog of Allen ? Was a coal stream found in Donegal ? Did we open up the cooper mine in Avoca again ? But every man, woman and child got sucked into this Alice in Wonderland Ireland as i said The Emperor's New Clothes...
Corporal Punishment
Registered user
16 years ago it was 2 1/2 times my wages plus Miriams income. We had to get my company to massage my income cert by including potential overtime in order to qualify for the £35,000 required.
I'm not sure it's fair to blame all and sundry for the mess the gov't, developers and banks caused. Plenty of people were not sucked in, and I like to include ourselves in that. We have very little debt, no credit card debt and we drive modest cars. We have savings. How long we'll have those saving for depends on the next budget. As it is, making ends meet is beginning to become a challenge. We behaved financially responsibely during the fake celtic tiger, but we'll be expected to pick up the tab. There are many like us across the country. Likewise there are many who have massive cars, houses, GSA's and massive debt. We will be collectively punished for thge idiocy and criminality of the ruling elite.
I'm not sure it's fair to blame all and sundry for the mess the gov't, developers and banks caused. Plenty of people were not sucked in, and I like to include ourselves in that. We have very little debt, no credit card debt and we drive modest cars. We have savings. How long we'll have those saving for depends on the next budget. As it is, making ends meet is beginning to become a challenge. We behaved financially responsibely during the fake celtic tiger, but we'll be expected to pick up the tab. There are many like us across the country. Likewise there are many who have massive cars, houses, GSA's and massive debt. We will be collectively punished for thge idiocy and criminality of the ruling elite.
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