JohnGS1100 Tuning Chip

[Deleted account 200123001]

On the 1150s and 1100s, any changes made to the timing maps are in affected by lambda correction. So you might be noticing an improvement due to the ignition advance.

Yes I suspect so, in the absence of measuring equipment I'm also prepared to accept that John has a better base fuel map than stock that is more consistent after lambda correction has worked its magic.

Roger...do you know if you can swap an 1100 ECU for an 1150?

 

[Roger 04 RT]

On the 1150s and 1100s, any changes made to the timing maps are unaffected by lambda correction. So you might be noticing an improvement due to the ignition advance.

Yes I suspect so, in the absence of measuring equipment I'm also prepared to accept that John has a better base fuel map than stock that is more consistent after lambda correction has worked its magic.

Roger...do you know if you can swap an 1100 ECU for an 1150?

It would be lucky if the base fuel map is better in the closed loop area, since the most important issue in that part of the map is that the relative VE corresponds exactly to the actual VE of the engine. In other words, if there were 100 cells in the closed loop area, and you added 10% fuel to 90% of the cells but left the other 10% of the cells alone and left the stock O2 sensor connected, the long term trim would become 1*10% + 0.9*90 = 0.1 + 0.81 = 0.91. That would mean you end up with 0.1% extra fuel in the cells you added 10% to but 9% less fuel in the cells you didn't touch. And then in the non-closed-loop area you'd have a 9% reduction. It's complicated and you can't make this analysis easy.

You could swap the ECUs but you would need to design a converter cable since the pin outs (and connector?) are different. Also the base VE (volumetric efficiency) is different. I guess the benefit you see is the non-lambda-control mode. I've thought about that too but feel that lambda-control has more benefits than costs.

In terms of the head/wall interface, the best solution maintaining lambda control would be something like an AF-XIED set to lambda=0.94 combined with a chip that adds 6% fuel to the closed loop area and whatever is then needed to the open loop area, plus adjusted timing AND no adjustments to other tables (e.g. Oil temp, air temp, etc.). Is say this based on 4 years of riding with lambda set between 0.92 and 0.94. Some timing tweaks might perk my bike up a bit but the available chip mods make too many undesirable changes.

 

[JohnGS1100]

Roger i m ready for data logging by a tool like your.
So we can compare the results.

Tell me please, it is LC-1 or LC-2 this tool ? I want buy this from UK.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/INNOVATE-DB...795-/121183833742?hash=item1c371e8e8e&vxp=mtr

 

[Roger 04 RT]

Hi John,
Get the LC-2 it is the newer model and is easier to use. It includes a cable that goes between the O2 sensor and the LC-2 processor. The standard cable is 8', much more than you need. Optionally there is a 3' cable, get it if they don't charge more.

Are you going to set this up for an r1100 or R1150? The difference is the O2 connector. It would be best to make up two harnesses so you could install it on either type. I harvested O2 connectors from old narrowband sensors.

The LC-2 has two analog outputs. Each can be configured to create a simulated narrowband output. When you're ready to try using the LC-2 to connect to the Motronic let me know.

In the meantime you can weld a second bung near the first so that you can have a stock sensor and a Wideband sensor installed at the same time.

Here is a link to how I installed the LC-1 but the LC-2 is simpler to install: forums

 

[JohnGS1100]

Thanks Roger, i order this tool.

I want connect this tool only for take the results of AFR to my computer.
I will connect it to my R1100GS and one R1150GS twins. I do not want to connect bypass the narrowband on the bike, can i use it standalone only for dataloging ? Needed a pc on the bike for dataloging ?

 

[Roger 04 RT]

Thanks Roger, i order this tool.

I want connect this tool only for take the results of AFR to my computer.
I will connect it to my R1100GS and one R1150GS twins. I do not want to connect bypass the narrowband on the bike, can i use it standalone only for dataloging ? Needed a pc on the bike for dataloging ?

It will work fine that way but you will need to weld a second bung in at an appropriate spot in your exhaust. On the 1150RT I found a spot which should work on the 1100GS. On the 1150 GS the stock bung is on the cat and it may be harder to find a spot. You could just choose on of the two pipes coming into the 1150gs.

But there is another way. You can program the simulates output to lambda = 1 then just put the Wideband in place of the narrowband O2.

I think eventually you will want to try having the LC-2 lower your lambda, it adds so much torque and responsiveness when you do, just like the AF-XIED does.

You will need a serial-to-USB cable too interface the LC-2 to your PC. I ride with a PC but a friend uses a PL-1 Pocket Logger rather than ride around with a PC. http://www.innovatemotorsports.com/products/pl1.php

 

[Roger 04 RT]

The bung on the left of the picture is the second one I added but cutting a hole and having it TIG welded.

 

[a2zworks]

Stage 6 chip idles at 1600 rpm

John,

I just put in stage 6 chip on my 2000 R1150GS with 58,000 km on the clock, no catalytic converter, standard BMW muffler, K&N and 98 petrol.

The bike idles at about 1600rpm, too high for my liking.

I tried adjusting throttle cable at handlebar but rpm still the same.

This morning I am going to remove the 30 87 jumper and see what happens.

What do you recommend?

I am leaving this Saturday for 3 weeks on a 5000km ride from Hobart to Queensland and back and I would like to lower the standing RPM closer to 900 rpm so that I can do a good fuel consumption calculation.


Thank you John,
Pablo

 

[JohnGS1100]

Hi Pablo. You can adjust the iddle speed by 3 way :
1. Little adjustments of TPS.
2. By the stop bypass screws.
3. By the big screws of throttles, note that should be arround 2+1/2 turns from ful closed.

I suggest these steps.
1. Adjust the TPS on 3,66 Volt.
2. The big screws on throttles 2+1/2.
3. Final the iddle speed by the stop bypass screws (behing the throttles).

Do not refit the jumper (30,87) you will no have any improvement.

 

[Roger 04 RT]

Pablo, usually when your mixture is richened at idle, the idle speed increases, so what happened seems normal to me. For now, leave the 30-87 jumper, that is the correct one for R1100GS, no cat, open loop. Does your bike have a CO Pot installed.

All the things John mentioned will affect the idle speed. However there is one correct way to do it. Assuming your throttle stop screws have not been tampered with, leave them alone. Same with the TPS. But if the TPS has been moved adjust the voltage by measuring between its pins 1 & 4 and adjust it to 340 mV (I think John mistyped when he suggested 3.66V) and then lock it down.

Next using a carb sync tool turn in the BBS screws until the idle speed is reduced to 1100 RPM +/- 50 while the throttles draw equal vacuum.

When was the last time you did a proper full throttle body sync procedure? I ask because the Motronic responds much better if everything is adjusted in the correct sequence. The most important adjustment is sync at 2500 rpm.

 

[a2zworks]

Hi Pablo. You can adjust the iddle speed by 3 way :
1. Little adjustments of TPS.
2. By the stop bypass screws.
3. By the big screws of throttles, note that should be arround 2+1/2 turns from ful closed.

I suggest these steps.
1. Adjust the TPS on 3,66 Volt.
2. The big screws on throttles 2+1/2.
3. Final the iddle speed by the stop bypass screws (behing the throttles).

Do not refit the jumper (30,87) you will no have any improvement.

Thank you John, I don't know about moving the TPS as I heard too many horror stories.
I'll try and balance the TBs first and see what that does.

 

[a2zworks]

Pablo, usually when your mixture is richened at idle, the idle speed increases, so what happened seems normal to me. For now, leave the 30-87 jumper, that is the correct one for R1100GS, no cat, open loop. Does your bike have a CO Pot installed.

All the things John mentioned will affect the idle speed. However there is one correct way to do it. Assuming your throttle stop screws have not been tampered with, leave them alone. Same with the TPS. But if the TPS has been moved adjust the voltage by measuring between its pins 1 & 4 and adjust it to 340 mV (I think John mistyped when he suggested 3.66V) and then lock it down.

Next using a carb sync tool turn in the BBS screws until the idle speed is reduced to 1100 RPM +/- 50 while the throttles draw equal vacuum.

When was the last time you did a proper full throttle body sync procedure? I ask because the Motronic responds much better if everything is adjusted in the correct sequence. The most important adjustment is sync at 2500 rpm.

Thanks Roger,
My bike is a 2000 R1150GS (not an 1100) so it does have a CO Pot.
TPS and throttle stops have not been touched and I won't move any of those things, I heard too many horror stories.

Had the bike for 2 years and I never have done a TB sync, just a valve adjust when I purchased it, Ill do a TB sync this afternoon and see what happens.

 

[Steptoe]

.

Roger...do you know if you can swap an 1100 ECU for an 1150?

No you can't .

 

[a2zworks]

TB sync

Using an electronic Harmonizer from the USA I managed to sync at idle to 1150 RPM, by seating the brass screws then backing out 1.5 turns and then sync.

At 2500 RPM its pulling more vacuum to the right, how do I go about this without affecting the sync at idle?

Thanks for your help once again.

 

[Roger 04 RT]

Here's the full procedure which does the whole job right: http://forums.bmwmoa.org/showthread...stment-Beyond-Zero-Zero&p=1003851#post1003851.

But a quick answer is use the adjust for the cable at the right hand throttle body. But be sure there is a bit of slack when you're done. If the the right adjuster already doesn't have slack, then use the left hand adjuster. Remember this is a short cut. The full procedure above results in all the cables properly tensioned.

 

[a2zworks]

Here's the full procedure which does the whole job right: http://forums.bmwmoa.org/showthread...stment-Beyond-Zero-Zero&p=1003851#post1003851.

But a quick answer is use the adjust for the cable at the right hand throttle body. But be sure there is a bit of slack when you're done. If the the right adjuster already doesn't have slack, then use the left hand adjuster. Remember this is a short cut. The full
procedure above results in all the cables properly tensioned.

Thank you Roger,
Oh I see, I was adjusting the cable on the wrong TB trying to pull back the vacuum, I'll give it another go later.

See if that also fixes a slight shake of the bike at 1300 RPM

Pablo

 

[a2zworks]

Started the bike this morning and bike wouldn't idle without holding throttle open to 2500 rpm.
Went out and only idled at 1100 rpm once it reached running temperature.
Rode 300km today and bike popping every now and then on deceleration.
There are out of ordinary engine vibrations above 120km/h I assume due to TBs out of sync at mid rev range.
Other ways bike seems ok, no hesitation on acceleration and did 300km today with 3 bars left on fuel gauge.
I am on the ferry right now on my way to the mainland, in the next few days I'll have a break from riding and try and sort it out with the Harmonizer that I brought on the trip with me, and with your collective help as well.

 

[Orinoco]

interesting, mine (1100GS) was fine to start, but after some 3000 miles, despite being balanced and checked twice by local indy BMW tech hunts and surges horribly now until @ 3500rpm, not sure what to check next, change back to stock chip?

 

[JohnGS1100]

The problem is not on the chip. 3.000 miles are too long. Take out the fuse 5 for 5-10 min, that make a reseting on maps. If the problems still on, then you should try to found to other hardwares. Check the sparks, fuel pump or hall sensor.

 

[Roger 04 RT]

interesting, mine (1100GS) was fine to start, but after some 3000 miles, despite being balanced and checked twice by local indy BMW tech hunts and surges horribly now until @ 3500rpm, not sure what to check next, change back to stock chip?

Do you have an O2 sensor? If you don't it is probably not related to the chip.

Although 3000 isn't too long for full Mixture Adaptation to have caused the problems you have, before you replace the chip pull fuse 5 for 5-10 minutes as John mentioned. This will clear everything that has been learned. Let us know how it runs after.