JohnGS1100 Tuning Chip

[Timolgra]

The GS's didn't like 80

 

[ahutcheon]

In NZ regular petrol is 91 and super is 95. We can get 98 in some places, but pay quite a lot extra.

My standard 1150gs can be provoked into pinging quite easily on a lot of what is sold as 95 octane, so not sure how variable the quality is.

 

[JohnGS1100]

The GS's didn't like 80
..........

80 Ron ??????

Only US Harley and Russian Ural works by this gasoil

 

[JohnGS1100]

In NZ regular petrol is 91 and super is 95. We can get 98 in some places, but pay quite a lot extra.

My standard 1150gs can be provoked into pinging quite easily on a lot of what is sold as 95 octane, so not sure how variable the quality is.

By stock chip the problem is at 4.000-4.600 revs of rpm. Only at these revs BMW gives a very high timing advance.. This combined with the lean mixture (AFR) and by high compress ratio (10,3 or 10,8 :1) the engine have some pings..

 

[Roger 04 RT]

John, I don't know if this will help you to perfect your chip but below is the plot of 2004 R1150 Spark Advance. Maximum advance is between 5000 — 7000 RPM, and between 10 — 20 degrees throttle.

 

[mr_magicfingers]

Only at high revs of rpm.


Yes.

By de-cat the only improvement at bike is at very high revs of rpm (6.700+).
So there are two harware setup works by two different chips (stage 4 and 5).
By stage 4 chip no needed to change anything hardware at bike.

For stage 5 is better to fit a Y pipe (de-cat system) or after market system exhaust, must fit too and a free air filter to make the "venturi" in-out correctly.
For this setup the stage 5 chip works very fine, runs superb especially at high revs. From iddle speed until red line (8.100 rpm).

But if you are an easy driver and if you want a very good improve at low and middle revs of rpm, you can just fit a chip for stage 4 (stock hardware setup). You can only change the air filter by (K/N) works better, It is very good for consumption and at low and middle revs has the same torque as the stage 5 setup.
The torque by chip (stage 4) goes up a 15% at low, 10% at middle revs of rpm, the consumption is better up to 10% at all revs of rpm.

Hi John, thanks very much for taking the time to explain that. Although I do like to use the top of the range occasionally (who doesn't accelerate hard now and then ), it sounds like keeping everything stock and going with a stage 4 chip is likely the best option for me.

 

[mr_magicfingers]

This
http://stores.ebay.com.au/dan-dans-...62515011&_sid=775914571&_trksid=p4634.c0.m322
is what I have from Dan-moto and fits perfectly, except that it does not have the center stand stop bracket.
There are many ways around that though.

That's handy thanks, but I found one at Motorworks for less money and british made, though think I'll stick with the cat and a stage 4 chip for now.

 

[Nick591]

John FYI most standard unleaded in Great Britain is 95 now with premium grades being 97

 

[a2zworks]

Hi Pablo. I was send the chip yesterday, so you will have it after few days. (The K/N or DNA recommend for all bikes- it is beter air filter than stock for all hardware setup).

I have a question too for you..

what kind of petrols have in australia ?
I was send "stage 5" chips to US and the guys there, tell to me that have pings or not working good, so i make only stage 4 for US, Canada and Australia (have similar petrols). That chip i was send to you too.

The petrols in USA have 91-92 ron they told it is like 95 octane europe, but not works good in all euorpean motors and cars. Why ?
There is a guy there, he order a chip by very low timing advance to use it in US and Mexiko by all kinds of petrols. The stock chip too did not work good by low octane petrols (make pings).

I read at this link, there are 3 stantards characteristics in petrols, RON-MON and AKI.

Take a look please :

"regular" gasoline in Australia, New Zealand, Canada and the US......91–92
Super/Premium in New Zealand, Australia.........................................95
Shell "V-Power Racing" in Australia - discontinued July 2008 [15].......100

By stage 4 chip you can use all these petrols, but work better by 95 ron *(like european petrols).
Make a test please by using a "regular gas australia" 91-92 ron (in US not work good).

Take a look to european petrols.. :

"Regular unleaded" in Europe.........................................95
Great Britain, Slovenia and Spain, "SP98" in France...........98
"SuperPlus" in Germany.................................................98
Shell V-Power in Italy and Germany...............................100

.
.
.
There is not low octane petrol in europe (<95 ron)..
At US it is difficult to find 95+ octane petrols (few gas stations), what about in australia ?
Did you find easy 95 or 98 octane petrols ?

Thank you John,

We only have octane 95 and 98

I always use octane 98

Pablo

 

[cookie]

i think someone has their MON and RON mixed up

 

[JohnGS1100]

John, I don't know if this will help you to perfect your chip but below is the plot of 2004 R1150 Spark Advance. Maximum advance is between 5000 — 7000 RPM, and between 10 — 20 degrees throttle.

Thanks Roger. Yes i know and see it at maps. No matter whether in small openings of throttles has given high timing advance because in those revs the throttles are above 60%.
But if you open at 60-100% the thorottle position, you will have pings only at 4.000-5.000. At these opens of throttle and revs of rpm the timing advance is very high.

Boxer engine need a lower advance at 4.000-5.000 rpms, than stock chip and much more fuel. At all else revs need higher timing advance, especially at 1.100-3.600 rpm.

 

[JohnGS1100]

John, I don't know if this will help you to perfect your chip but below is the plot of 2004 R1150 Spark Advance. Maximum advance is between 5000 — 7000 RPM, and between 10 — 20 degrees throttle.

Take a look what i see at stock map No 8, (stock chip) of R1150twin. The numbers is degrees. Horizontal is the rpm and vertical the throttle position opening.

I also mark :

(green line) the "throttle opening track".

(blue line) the lower timing advance

(red line) the very high advance.

STOCK MAP (CHIP R1150 TWIN):

 

[JohnGS1100]

Roger.. this is my mod map at stage 4 chip for R1150 twin :
(Note that these values i see on maps in to the chip it is the same for all R1150 twins but in practice differ from model to model, affects the position of the TPS, the position of Hall sensor and the overall state of the engine..), You see the practice by your tool, i see the practice only at dyno results..

Sorry to friends users but when talk me and Roger, will present somes difficult math charts ..

 

[Roger 04 RT]

Take a look what i see at stock map No 8, (stock chip) of R1150twin. The numbers is degrees. Horizontal is the rpm and vertical the throttle position opening.

I also mark :

(green line) the "throttle opening track".

(blue line) the lower timing advance

(red line) the very high advance.

STOCK MAP (CHIP R1150 TWIN):

Based on the typical advance map below, the R1150 map doesn't seem to be obviously wrong.

Below is the spark advance map for my R1150 for 6 on-the-road, WOT accelerations. The advance at WOT seems smooth and predicatable.

 

[Roger 04 RT]

Take a look what i see at stock map No 8, (stock chip) of R1150twin. The numbers is degrees. Horizontal is the rpm and vertical the throttle position opening.

I also mark :

(green line) the "throttle opening track".

(blue line) the lower timing advance

(red line) the very high advance.

STOCK MAP (CHIP R1150 TWIN):

Based on the typical advance map below (which can get pretty complicated), the R1150 map doesn't seem to be obviously wrong.

Below is the spark advance map for my R1150 for 6 on-the-road, WOT accelerations. The advance at WOT seems smooth and predicatable.

 

[JohnGS1100]

Roger this is a 3d chat from R1150 twin, Stock Map 8 (Timing Advance) :
Note that the throttle position is in reverse direction than your 3d Chat (fig 4.4).
Note too, that your 3d chat mayby is from R1150 single.

 

[Roger 04 RT]

Good picture but my point exactly. A "normal" Motronic spark map has bumps all over the place so the map you show isn't necessarily "bad". Also, the r1150rt uses map 3, not 8. Is there much of a difference between 3 and 8?

 

[JohnGS1100]

This is the No3 Advance timing map of BMW R1150RT twin. Very poor..
by full open of throttle position the advance is very very slow, poor performance. BMW make this, because of produce R1150RS.
At Rs maps at full open of throttle position the advance is still high so the power still goes a little up than RT..

Up (stock map), Down (Stage 4 map).
RT1150 TWIN Map No 3 , Advance timing

 

[ralphy]

My brain hurts.

R

 

[Roger 04 RT]

This is the No3 Advance timing map of BMW R1150RT twin. Very poor..
by full open of throttle position the advance is very very slow, poor performance. BMW make this, because of produce R1150RS.
At Rs maps at full open of throttle position the advance is still high so the power still goes a little up than RT..

Up (stock map), Down (Stage 4 map).
RT1150 TWIN Map No 3 , Advance timing

Question about the axes on your charts:

X-axis: 700, 800, 900, etc. Do you read those values from the Motronic chip or did you get them somewhere else?
Y-axis: 0.1, 0.8, 1.5, etc. Same question. Also, what are the units of those values?

Many thanks,

My brain hurts.

R

Getting this right is mind-numbing work at times.