JohnGS1100 Tuning Chip

[Flipfly]

Iirc a lot of uk 1150 bikes were supplied with no CCP even though they ran CAT and Lambda.

 

[Roger 04 RT]

Iirc a lot of uk 1150 bikes were supplied with no CCP even though they ran CAT and Lambda.

That is fine for the 1150 GS. No plug is higher octane, yellow is 91 octane, beige is Japan.

On the 1100 GS beige is no lambda but co pot, pink 30-87-87a is with lambda.

There isn't a "formula" for the plugs such as 86 always changes octane even though at first glance it seems there is a formula. You just have to use the specific plug.

 

[Deleted account 200123001]

then you want a pink CCP. 30-87-87a

Ah......i have the yellow one still in.
I wonder if this is whats causing the problems

 

[Roger 04 RT]

Ah......i have the yellow one still in.
I wonder if this is whats causing the problems

It could be an issue. Here's why:

Even though the fuel table in the Motronic is merely a list of numbers that translate to injector on-times, the root information that BMW uses to create those times is a VE--read volumetric efficiency--table, which is a table of numbers that are the percentage of a full air charge that is in the cylinder when the intake valve closes.

From there, BMW sets specific AFR targets for the whole table, which are 14.7:1 for gasoline below half throttle. Because the GS and RT have different intake tubes, heads, cams and exhaust, the VE varies significantly. And even among cells in the Closed Loop area the VE varies.

For example, the GS has longer, narrower intake runners. Although that reduces VE and torque at higher RPMs, though a resonance effect there is slightly more air at lower RPMs. Knowing that, BMW adds fuel to hit 14.7:1. You get more air and hence more torque.

The bottom line is that the numbers in the closed loop area and the ratio among those numbers are important and shouldn't be altered, and should be matched to the bike.​

 

[JohnGS1100]

That is fine for the 1150 GS. No plug is higher octane, yellow is 91 octane, beige is Japan.

On the 1100 GS beige is no lambda but co pot, pink 30-87-87a is with lambda.

There isn't a "formula" for the plugs such as 86 always changes octane even though at first glance it seems there is a formula. You just have to use the specific plug.

No Roger, i made all test with CCP.

The R1150 without CCP runs by little richer AFR (than yellow CCP) only at middle revs of rpms because there are no maps or function for R1150 to working without lambda. That is all.

Also by no CCP there is problem to high revs of rpms.

The bikes feels not good at high revs of rpms because there is no correct timing advance (there is no map for "no CCP") and the AFR at high it very lean.
When take out the CCP the bike runs good for few miles until the ECU makes an adapt (as you said) because the AFR at middle is richer and after long trim the AFR at high will being very lean.

As i said at the past, it is a trik from many mechanic, but is working only for few miles.. the biker is happy for 10-20 miles..

By the yellow CCP the R1150 runs by litle lean AFR, but works also by correct timing advance and by better consumption.
A trik for little more richer AFR to R1150GS is to fiting the red CCP plug (pins 30,87,87a) like the RT, because the air intake tubes are narrow and not huge as the RT.
But it is not correct because the AFR is little richer agains and after few miles the ECU returns to lean AFR.

The diference "no CCP" and "red CCP" to a R1150GS is that by "no CCP" there is no maps for timing advance at high and by "red CCP) there is a correct timing advance map at high after long trim, it is better but the AFR (by both CCP) is still lean, much more lean (at high revs) than the correct yellow CCP (for R1150GS).

So the only solutions are two :

1. You tool by wideband.

2. My chip by mods at all maps.

I will send a chip to Phil (you know about) and you send your LC for measure the AFR at close loop.
Phil will makes all test or long riding.
So i hope we will have all results and i hope to resolve the mysterious of MA 2.4 Bosch motronic ECU.

This is a factory table for CCP plug to old boxer BMW (850-1100-1150).
There is no function for "no CCP" to R1150. There is no Japanish models. Thre is only a Switzarland model by low timing advance (for little down power and using low octane petrols) by connecting the pins "86".

After my testing i respond these mods at CCP depending of change the air intake tubes, just for test, working good :
http://ukgser.com/forums/showthread...-Tuning-Chip?p=3892646&viewfull=1#post3892646

http://ukgser.com/forums/showthread...-Tuning-Chip?p=3883786&viewfull=1#post3883786

Thanks for talking Roger

 

[gspod]

Hi John

So what about my 1100 as per post 579:

Biege or pink CCP?

Thanks

P.S I shall write up my findings just want to compare different plugs

 

[JohnGS1100]

Pink (red) CCP if your R1100 has lambda, biege if has no lambda. The cat does no matter for CCP, only the lambda.

Edit.
So if anybody remove the cat of bike, the CCP must be in the fusebox because the lambda still give a signal to ECU and the ECU looking for the correct set of maps depending of CCP.

 

[gspod]

Pink (red) CCP if your R1100 has lambda, biege if has no lambda. The cat does no matter for CCP, only the lambda.

Edit.
So if anybody remove the cat of bike, the CCP must be in the fusebox because the lambda still give a signal to ECU and the ECU looking for the correct set of maps depending of CCP.

OK thanks

I can't find anyone selling them on the net - Is there anything special about the plug? Internal Fuse? or is it just a way of connecting the sockets together - in which case I can make my own.

I'm getting there ..........I think

 

[Flipfly]

OK thanks

I can't find anyone selling them on the net - Is there anything special about the plug? Internal Fuse? or is it just a way of connecting the sockets together - in which case I can make my own.

I'm getting there ..........I think

spade connectors and wire does the same job.

 

[gspod]

spade connectors and wire does the same job.

Thanks Flipfly

 

[Orinoco]

This is all beyond me.

I've ordered a chip from John and had assumed my bike has a cat, but now not sure, it's a 1999 R1100GS, UK bike AFAIK, has the big bogoff collector box which I thought was the cat. Could someone let me know how to check (yes, I'm incompetent!)

TIA

 

[JohnGS1100]

Hi Andrian. I make a chip as you suggest me with no surge at 1.500-2.500 rpms.

I want you check the big screws on injections throttles, sould be 2+3/4 full turns from closed. Maybe the problem is on this adjust (of big screws) and the bike take no the correct volume of air at low rpms.

Here is a pdf file take a read please.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B7b6GlMSZji5bXJ0cjFUclNjaVU/view?usp=sharing

Also here is a pdf file for adjust the TPS :

http://advwisdom.hogranch.com/Wisdom/tps3.1.pdf

and here is a post (UKGSer) little details for adjustment of throttles :

http://ukgser.com/forums/showthread...-Tuning-Chip?p=3948350&viewfull=1#post3948350

 

[Orinoco]

Thanks John, bike serviced and balanced, less surge, but still there a little, but I can live with it! Looking forward to the chip

 

[Flipfly]

Collector box means cat

 

[topcat2006]

Collector box means cat

Didn't the 1100 have the collector box regardless of wether it had a cat or not? I was under the impression (and maybe wrongly) that the only way to tell if there was a cat fitted was the presence of a lambda sensor. (Otherwise remove collector box and see if a welding wire etc went all the way through)....

 

[drinu64]

My 96 850 has a collector box but no cat

 

[NitroMax]

Collector box means cat

Nope, Lambda in collector pot means cat, Lambda should be somewhere on the right side in the collector I heard ( but I cannot check because I dó have the collector but no cat )

My R 1100 GS runs perfect after John's advice on tuning the GS and his Stage 5 chip, no surge at all and nice and smooth in every gear.

Fuelconsumption did not go down ( even went up a little ) but I don't care, it's running perfect !

 

[Flipfly]

Doh, you lot an your complicated 1100

 

[JohnGS1100]

The R1100 has cat, does no matter if has lambda or not.

So colector box=cat.

The problem by CO-pot is that if it is no at correct adjust for AFR close to 14,7 at middle revs, there is a problem at long time. I think is better to remove the cat (from R1100 with co-pot) or replace by a new one, because it is very old, after the bike will runs by better consumption.

 

[NitroMax]

Well, color me confused

Oh well, like I said: mine runs perfect as a daily driver. Sometimes I secretly think about the bigger airintake/bigger tunnels to the TB's and a freeflowing exhaust but then again............daily driver I can start next to the neighbors bedroomwindows without waking them up..............