west coast traveller
Registered user
Let us know about results and consumption please
Will do that.
JohnGS1100 Tuning Chip
- Thread starter uncle dick
- Start date
Will do that.
Lots of people sounding happy, but having waded through the whole thread, is there any firm feeling about the significance of the closed loop / self correcting element of the design of the system as a whole? For those using the conversion for a longer period, has that proven to be an issue, or is this either set-up dependent, or is there another factor I'm missing here? Sounds brilliant, otherwise!
Does no matter the close loop. The AFR is little richer than stock at all revs of rpms.
But the great improvement is on the other maps, faster timing advance map for better torque (especially at very low rpms +60% ), atmosphere maps for smooth function to engine when is on mountains, richer maps (sensitive air temp sensor map) for safety function to engine when is very hot, expand ignition to the sparks for much more power and (+10% power) and more final speed (125+miles/h) at high rpms, all these by better consumption (better compustion of the gasoline), ideal values to the maps, it is just an upgrade firmware based exactly on the stock chip for better exploitation of petrol and synthetic oils of 2015.
I try all situations to my R1100GS and to all boxer engines (R1100S-R1150 R, GS, RT ,RS and K1200 GT-LT-RS).
It is great safety, the torque goes up, the power goes up, the consumption is much more better.
After many many tests, i know that it is worth !!
Thanks to all friends who try the chip, i always try too to management for the best improvement by the lowest cost..
But the great improvement is on the other maps, faster timing advance map for better torque (especially at very low rpms +60% ), atmosphere maps for smooth function to engine when is on mountains, richer maps (sensitive air temp sensor map) for safety function to engine when is very hot, expand ignition to the sparks for much more power and (+10% power) and more final speed (125+miles/h) at high rpms, all these by better consumption (better compustion of the gasoline), ideal values to the maps, it is just an upgrade firmware based exactly on the stock chip for better exploitation of petrol and synthetic oils of 2015.
I try all situations to my R1100GS and to all boxer engines (R1100S-R1150 R, GS, RT ,RS and K1200 GT-LT-RS).
It is great safety, the torque goes up, the power goes up, the consumption is much more better.
After many many tests, i know that it is worth !!
Thanks to all friends who try the chip, i always try too to management for the best improvement by the lowest cost..
Roger 04 RT
Registered user
There has been a lot of discussion in the thread and many opinions stated. However, this isn't a matter opinion, it's a matter of fact which can be confirmed by measurement.
I've provided several links to measurements that show: a) the Motronic on an R1150 always runs in Closed Loop when the engine is warm and the throttle isn't moving too much; and b) that the Motronic has powerful mixture adaptation software that creates a matrix of long term trims. Have a read here: http://advrider.com/index.php?threa...-af-xied-for-bmw.749080/page-40#post-23675190.
The Closed Loop area of the Motronic is roughly everything below 50% throttle, up to about 6,000 RPM.
When you try to change the Motronic's fuel map, any fuel added in the Closed Loop area results in fuel being subtracted in the area above 50% throttle. Think of it this way: the Motronic sees the fuel added in the Closed Loop area as an error; if you add, say, 10% on average in that area, a long term trim of 0.90 is created; that trim is applied everywhere. In the closed loop area the 10% reduction offsets the 10% you added. Outside the Closed Loop area it makes a 10% reduction to whatever you added. If you added 5% to WOT, then after the long term trim is applied you end up with 5% less fuel than stock.
The difficulty here is that the Motronic has a sophisticated Long Term Trim ability which BMW never documented for us. Without fully understanding it, one can reach a lot of wrong conclusions. For instance, it makes no sense to change the Air Temp compensation tables or atmosphere (barometric pressure) maps. Changing the spark maps can yield improvements since they are not part of the Closed Loop adaptation algorithms on the R1150.
The two responses here nicely encapsulate the need for long term feedback from those adopting the modified chip early on. If Rogers summary is right, then longer term users should see a degradation of general performance in both closed loop and open loop running as the motronic adapts. So, big question is, has that happened?
All bikes work the same for no limit miles, there is a short adapt for 2-3 miles until the ECU load all maps, after this point there is no longer adaptation.. be sure for that 
Here is my latest project, dyno result from R1100. from 86 to 93 Hp.
Keep tuning..!
I try next week to make the maps for more torque at middle at middle revs and more horsepower at high rpms.
Keep tuning..!
I try next week to make the maps for more torque at middle at middle revs and more horsepower at high rpms.
Roger 04 RT
Registered user
The Motronic works the way it works (Closed Loop fueling with long term trimming, which btw takes several tanks of fuel). It seems likely that the improvements felt with these chips are due to changes to the ignition advance.
If you read through the thread, there are claims that closed loop fueling can be altered by changes to the chip. That has not yet been demonstrated and when I tried a chip, it showed that closed loop fueling didn't change.
I keep saying that a bike set up with lambda-shifting and then a chip with only modified ignition advance might show great gains. The chip timing changes won't be adapted away and the lambda-shifted fueling can be permanently shifted to Best Power Mixture, something that CANNOT be done with changes to the chip, except on the R1100R/RT/GS by using No Coding Plug or a Beige Coding Plug.
Karlread
Registered user
I have been following this thread as I am considering getting one for my standard R1100RS with no catalytic converter. Basically, is there an improvement throughout with the surging problem resolved, is the performance and fuel consumption improved, or as seems to be suggested, is this only short term before the Motronic resets itself back to the factory settings?
Hi Karlead. You should try the chip. There is no back to any setting, i make mods to factory maps for much better results.
Send me a pm please with your bike and address details please.
Send me a pm please with your bike and address details please.
Roger 04 RT
Registered user
You've got an R1200GSA, right?
Karlread
Registered user
The bike is a 1996 BMW R1100RS SE with no catalytic converter fitted, the bike has the standard exhaust. The main thing is the surging it suffers, it has been set up properly with everything checked by both a dealer and independent but it still does it.
Roger 04 RT
Registered user
Is yours one of the early bikes with the Coding Plug function built into the wiring harness or do you have a Coding Plug? If so What color?
You might find that your injectors have different flow rates. My first step would be to have them measured, cleaned and measured again.
You might find that your injectors have different flow rates. My first step would be to have them measured, cleaned and measured again.
As previously discussed on if the Motronic will eventually re-learn and re-adapt itself and reset all settings to factory after sometime with the installation of this chip. My recently acquired ride is an 03' GSA with cat off, on K&N air filter and laser exhaust, previous owner has done some good maintenance on the machine. It is running smooth, no complains so far except for the poor lack of torque at the low band. As I am following the reads so far, the chip will improve this area. I am based in Singapore btw.
By the way i make my R1100GS work by CO-POT, i remove the oxygon sensor i fit the brown CCP and i try to make the AFR variable by the main injection maps, from 14,7:1 (idle speed) until 12,5:1 at red line.
It is funny, the engine runs better and smoother, gives me the feeling that I ride motorcycle carburetor.
Finally you are right about the close loop it is always 14,7:1 the difference when i give richer value it is for a snap little richer, that affect the afr for little time to richer because the motronic is very very slow to make it to 14,7:1, need about 1-2 sec to do that and only when the throttles is stable. On acceleration the richer AFR by the richer maps works fine that is the reason for smooth function of engine. So The changes on the injection map (to richer) on accelerate the AFR is richer, the ECU can not do to 14,7 very fast because wait for stable throttles. So it is work and both (me and you) are rights
And finally there is no longer adapt, i drive the bike for 10.000 miles and the AFR, the power are all the same as the first time that i fit the chip. There is no back to factory settings, because i change the values of the factory settings by new maps with faster timing advance, expand ignition to the sparks, faster advance for fulll open throttles, colder maps (richer when the engine is very hot) and much more else maps like atmospair map, high mountain map, air intake sensor map.. so there is no factory settings now, there is only the John's settings now, that's all.
It is funny, the engine runs better and smoother, gives me the feeling that I ride motorcycle carburetor.
Finally you are right about the close loop it is always 14,7:1 the difference when i give richer value it is for a snap little richer, that affect the afr for little time to richer because the motronic is very very slow to make it to 14,7:1, need about 1-2 sec to do that and only when the throttles is stable. On acceleration the richer AFR by the richer maps works fine that is the reason for smooth function of engine. So The changes on the injection map (to richer) on accelerate the AFR is richer, the ECU can not do to 14,7 very fast because wait for stable throttles. So it is work and both (me and you) are rights
And finally there is no longer adapt, i drive the bike for 10.000 miles and the AFR, the power are all the same as the first time that i fit the chip. There is no back to factory settings, because i change the values of the factory settings by new maps with faster timing advance, expand ignition to the sparks, faster advance for fulll open throttles, colder maps (richer when the engine is very hot) and much more else maps like atmospair map, high mountain map, air intake sensor map.. so there is no factory settings now, there is only the John's settings now, that's all.
Roger 04 RT
Registered user
Hi John,
Thanks for this detailed update, now that you have the LC-2 installed. At some point, if you wish, I can explain to you how to easily use your LC-2 as a lambda-shifter on your bike and/or and R1150. That way you can explore the power improvements that are achieved through this technique. It will definitely boost the R1150 bikes beyond what you can do with just the chip. The simple reason is that if desired you can get the low end and mid range to run nearer Best Power Mixture.
I have some comments on your post below that I hope help you to take Closed Loop bikes to better levels of performance.
By running the Brown Plug (30-87a), you have selected the non-O2 sensor, or Open Loop mode, for your R1100 (this mode isn't available on the R1150). All the changes you made to the chip are permanent and there is no Closed Loop mixture adaptation. You should consider increasing the idle AFR to 13.8:1, you will find that the bike idles stronger.
The R1150 used with an LC-2 or AF-XIED also feels more like an older, richer mixture, carburetor bike. Aren't they a real pleasure to ride in this state of tune? One of my friends has richened his R1150 to about 13.2:1 (fairly rich) and just loves it.
John, I'm glad that you have discovered that the R1150 always returns to Closed Loop mixtures of 14.7:1. However, the reason for the improvement you see isn't due to the richer map, but is due to timing improvements and any changes you made to the TPS rate of change map.
Although you made the base maps richer, over time, mixture adaptation negates the changes to the main, base fuel map. I've measured and demonstrated the effect, and as the GS-911 reports more and more data as they improve it, they are starting now to report the long term Additive and Multiplicative trims, which show the point I'm making in another conclusive way (the first way is my direct measurements).
You will probably say I'm wrong, that there isn't mixture adaptation here, but you will find out the same thing as with the Closed Loop fueling. The Motronic works in a certain way, and that way is Mixture Adaptiion with Long Term Trims, when running with an O2 sensor in Closed Loop. This applies to all R1150s, the R1100S and any R1100s running with an O2 sensor.
However, and I repeating, your timing changes are probably helpful and are permanent on all bikes. And if you can find and adjust the TPS acceleration/deceleration tables, changes there are not adapted away.
Lastly, until you try lambda-shifting on a Closed Loop bike, you won't know how much better it is that your fuel map changes. You made the point that it takes a second or two for Closed Loop to recover. That is not exactly true. Closed Loop can recover faster but the Motronic chooses to leave the Acceleration Enrichment in effect for that amount of time. The reason lambda-shifting is even better is that the intake tract (throttle body, and valve area) has more fuel ready instantly, even faster than the acceleration enrichment that you can change in the map.
On your R1100 with the Brown Plug, it is true that there is no Mixture Adaptation. That is the definition of an Open Loop bike.
However, on any R1150 and any R1100 using an O2 sensor, the do adapt and they do so in a complex way. Your chips could be improved when you fully understand the way that Closed Loop Mixture Adaptation works. As I've been saying for years, the AF-XIED (or LC-2 for those comfortable with wiring) AND one of your chips could make a really good improvement.
Thanks for this detailed update, now that you have the LC-2 installed. At some point, if you wish, I can explain to you how to easily use your LC-2 as a lambda-shifter on your bike and/or and R1150. That way you can explore the power improvements that are achieved through this technique. It will definitely boost the R1150 bikes beyond what you can do with just the chip. The simple reason is that if desired you can get the low end and mid range to run nearer Best Power Mixture.
I have some comments on your post below that I hope help you to take Closed Loop bikes to better levels of performance.
By running the Brown Plug (30-87a), you have selected the non-O2 sensor, or Open Loop mode, for your R1100 (this mode isn't available on the R1150). All the changes you made to the chip are permanent and there is no Closed Loop mixture adaptation. You should consider increasing the idle AFR to 13.8:1, you will find that the bike idles stronger.
The R1150 used with an LC-2 or AF-XIED also feels more like an older, richer mixture, carburetor bike. Aren't they a real pleasure to ride in this state of tune? One of my friends has richened his R1150 to about 13.2:1 (fairly rich) and just loves it.
Finally you are right about the close loop it is always 14,7:1 the difference when i give richer value it is for a snap little richer, that affect the afr for little time to richer because the motronic is very very slow to make it to 14,7:1, need about 1-2 sec to do that and only when the throttles is stable. On acceleration the richer AFR by the richer maps works fine that is the reason for smooth function of engine. So The changes on the injection map (to richer) on accelerate the AFR is richer, the ECU can not do to 14,7 very fast because wait for stable throttles. So it is work and both (me and you) are rights
John, I'm glad that you have discovered that the R1150 always returns to Closed Loop mixtures of 14.7:1. However, the reason for the improvement you see isn't due to the richer map, but is due to timing improvements and any changes you made to the TPS rate of change map.
Although you made the base maps richer, over time, mixture adaptation negates the changes to the main, base fuel map. I've measured and demonstrated the effect, and as the GS-911 reports more and more data as they improve it, they are starting now to report the long term Additive and Multiplicative trims, which show the point I'm making in another conclusive way (the first way is my direct measurements).
You will probably say I'm wrong, that there isn't mixture adaptation here, but you will find out the same thing as with the Closed Loop fueling. The Motronic works in a certain way, and that way is Mixture Adaptiion with Long Term Trims, when running with an O2 sensor in Closed Loop. This applies to all R1150s, the R1100S and any R1100s running with an O2 sensor.
However, and I repeating, your timing changes are probably helpful and are permanent on all bikes. And if you can find and adjust the TPS acceleration/deceleration tables, changes there are not adapted away.
Lastly, until you try lambda-shifting on a Closed Loop bike, you won't know how much better it is that your fuel map changes. You made the point that it takes a second or two for Closed Loop to recover. That is not exactly true. Closed Loop can recover faster but the Motronic chooses to leave the Acceleration Enrichment in effect for that amount of time. The reason lambda-shifting is even better is that the intake tract (throttle body, and valve area) has more fuel ready instantly, even faster than the acceleration enrichment that you can change in the map.
On your R1100 with the Brown Plug, it is true that there is no Mixture Adaptation. That is the definition of an Open Loop bike.
However, on any R1150 and any R1100 using an O2 sensor, the do adapt and they do so in a complex way. Your chips could be improved when you fully understand the way that Closed Loop Mixture Adaptation works. As I've been saying for years, the AF-XIED (or LC-2 for those comfortable with wiring) AND one of your chips could make a really good improvement.
Hi Roger.
I m ecstatic by the smooth function by the setup 30,87a (no oxygon sensor).
I se the iddle speed by the big screws on throttles (2 full turns) to 14,7 :1.
Also i make the injection map :
1,100-1.900 14,2:1.
2.000-3.000 13,8:1.
3.000-4.000 13,6:1.
4.000-5.000 13.5:1
5.000-6.000 13,2:1
6.000-79000 12,5:1.
The bike works fine, the power is linear at all engine speeds without faltered.
At the future i will buy a engine R1100S and i fit to my GS and i make the settings again 30,87a by no lambda sensor. I think will work like racing bike, like carpyrator.
The only problem by this setup is the consumption.
The consumption by lambda sensor (on) is little better. By one tank (22 l) i make 330 Km, now i make 280km but anyway does no matter, i keep this setup for enjoy.
By the way Roger, i make all test with LC2 on my bike with stock (lambda sensor on), i drive 300 miles, there is no longer adapt. If you still believe that there is a longer adapt, the solution is very easy, just fitout the fuese 5 from the fusebox for 5 min , refit the fuse 5 again, open the key without start the engine and open 3 times the throttles and start finish the bike again. That makes zero maps to load agains.. So there is any problem anywhere.
There is only a short adapt after 4-5 miles until the ECU load all maps but this is physically, happen to all ecu.
And as i said by higher value to maps :
1. Main injection map.
2. Atmospair map.
3. Air intake sensor map.
4. High mountain map.
By all these higher values, the bike (with lambda) works smooth by little more richer fuel. The AFR is 14,7 only when the thortles is stable. That is ok and help the more consumption. On aceleration the fuel is more richer than stock maps, that is the best for power and faster speed.
Also by mods at maps :
1. Ignition advance map (faster).
2. Expand ignition to the sparks.
3. Faster timing advance to full open throttles.
4. Little corrections advance when the engine is hot.
5. Variable values to main advance map.
All these gives :
30% much better torque at 1.100-1.900 rpm.
15 % much better torque at 2.000-3.500 rpms.
10% much better torque at 3.500-5.100 rpms.
And 6-10 plus HP at high revs of rpms.
I m sure now that my 4 years hard job is worth.
The cost of my chip is much more cheap than others (lazer, bbpower) and any other, also it is free (no locked), it is open software, everybody can see what i make. Also i try management for very low cost.
I try many chips, lazer, BBpower, Germany;s chip, really it is true that these are worst than stock chip, no improvement anywhere.
Fianlly i have to say that the chip is just a remaping chip, update for the 20yeras old stock chip. better by great results.
Anyway Roger thanks for talking, you are my teacher for many ideas and information.
Regards
I m ecstatic by the smooth function by the setup 30,87a (no oxygon sensor).
I se the iddle speed by the big screws on throttles (2 full turns) to 14,7 :1.
Also i make the injection map :
1,100-1.900 14,2:1.
2.000-3.000 13,8:1.
3.000-4.000 13,6:1.
4.000-5.000 13.5:1
5.000-6.000 13,2:1
6.000-79000 12,5:1.
The bike works fine, the power is linear at all engine speeds without faltered.
At the future i will buy a engine R1100S and i fit to my GS and i make the settings again 30,87a by no lambda sensor. I think will work like racing bike, like carpyrator.
The only problem by this setup is the consumption.
The consumption by lambda sensor (on) is little better. By one tank (22 l) i make 330 Km, now i make 280km but anyway does no matter, i keep this setup for enjoy.
By the way Roger, i make all test with LC2 on my bike with stock (lambda sensor on), i drive 300 miles, there is no longer adapt. If you still believe that there is a longer adapt, the solution is very easy, just fitout the fuese 5 from the fusebox for 5 min , refit the fuse 5 again, open the key without start the engine and open 3 times the throttles and start finish the bike again. That makes zero maps to load agains.. So there is any problem anywhere.
There is only a short adapt after 4-5 miles until the ECU load all maps but this is physically, happen to all ecu.
And as i said by higher value to maps :
1. Main injection map.
2. Atmospair map.
3. Air intake sensor map.
4. High mountain map.
By all these higher values, the bike (with lambda) works smooth by little more richer fuel. The AFR is 14,7 only when the thortles is stable. That is ok and help the more consumption. On aceleration the fuel is more richer than stock maps, that is the best for power and faster speed.
Also by mods at maps :
1. Ignition advance map (faster).
2. Expand ignition to the sparks.
3. Faster timing advance to full open throttles.
4. Little corrections advance when the engine is hot.
5. Variable values to main advance map.
All these gives :
30% much better torque at 1.100-1.900 rpm.
15 % much better torque at 2.000-3.500 rpms.
10% much better torque at 3.500-5.100 rpms.
And 6-10 plus HP at high revs of rpms.
I m sure now that my 4 years hard job is worth.
The cost of my chip is much more cheap than others (lazer, bbpower) and any other, also it is free (no locked), it is open software, everybody can see what i make. Also i try management for very low cost.
I try many chips, lazer, BBpower, Germany;s chip, really it is true that these are worst than stock chip, no improvement anywhere.
Fianlly i have to say that the chip is just a remaping chip, update for the 20yeras old stock chip. better by great results.
Anyway Roger thanks for talking, you are my teacher for many ideas and information.
Regards
Just look this dyno. ,
R1150GS, De-cat system exhaust, remus exhuast free air filter K/N and chip stgae 9 with more finetuning.
+12 hP MORE UP, +1.5 kGR TORQUE FROM VERY LOW RPMS UNTIL HIGH rpms, MORE HORSEPOWER, 240 KM/h final speed (the 6h gear is very long).
Note that this bike has lambda and works with lamba for 40,000 km and the power is the same, there is no longer adapt as you said. And finally the consumption is 5,4-6,5 l/100km by any driving.
The most Better torque and power by the lower consumption by only a cheap chip.!!
R1150GS, De-cat system exhaust, remus exhuast free air filter K/N and chip stgae 9 with more finetuning.
+12 hP MORE UP, +1.5 kGR TORQUE FROM VERY LOW RPMS UNTIL HIGH rpms, MORE HORSEPOWER, 240 KM/h final speed (the 6h gear is very long).
Note that this bike has lambda and works with lamba for 40,000 km and the power is the same, there is no longer adapt as you said. And finally the consumption is 5,4-6,5 l/100km by any driving.
The most Better torque and power by the lower consumption by only a cheap chip.!!
Chip #8
John,
Today I did 360 km of mix city/highway riding.
I still have 2 bars on the fuel readout.
I'll go out again in the next couple of days and see how many more km I do until the yellow low fuel light comes on.
What do you think about this John?
Regards,
Pablo Michelin
John,
Today I did 360 km of mix city/highway riding.
I still have 2 bars on the fuel readout.
I'll go out again in the next couple of days and see how many more km I do until the yellow low fuel light comes on.
What do you think about this John?
Regards,
Pablo Michelin
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