Jump starting GSA?

[Deleted account 200502001]

Just had a thought, if ever I have a flat battery whats the safest way to jump start my 2009 GSA using jump leads? Is it done just like a car, +ve to +ve and then the -ve to bike engine frame?

 

[adventuredon]

yes. or bump start it on a downhill slope. Use 6th gear and bounce hard on the seat as you dump the clutch. I tried it on mine and works well.
A normal 12v battery will also start your bike without harming the battery of other bike.

 

[DrFarkoff]

Yup Positive to positive or the top "stud" on the starter solenoid to save removing seats etc

"but" use chassis to chassis for the ground rather than battery negative to frame and if you are using a car Just do it with the engine NOT running!

You have to protect the ECU from Voltage spikes There's plenty in a car battery to spin the bike over nicely

Just had a thought, if ever I have a flat battery whats the safest way to jump start my 2009 GSA using jump leads? Is it done just like a car, +ve to +ve and then the -ve to bike engine frame?

 

[Popell]

You could employ the Lorenzo technique - its new but the astute could see him practicing it on Sunday...

 

[newboy]

I live on a steep hill - when I let the battery run down over winter (I now have a battery conditioner jobbie) - I couldn't get it going quickly enough to bump it!! Never went that quick - (before anyone says - it was in neutral!)

I went about 50 yards downhill and then I had to push the bloody thing back up.....

Luckily I later spotted that Oblertone had sensibly fitted the jump start post so it was a doddle off the other bike

 

[DrFarkoff]

A wee Heads up for you !

All these bikes have electrical fuel pumps and electronic ignition and circuit controls

and MOST important the alternators need volts to be stimulated into life to produce energy

If there's nothing at all Do not try to bump it

If there's something and its REALLY sluggish STOP and sort the battery or you could do the electronics some damage

If the starter is slow but its trying This is the only real time it makes sense to bump one of these big bikes

Be aware too that the driveshaft is in 2 parts bonded by a Rubber media Do it wrong you can place a LOT of strain on that media!

Is it really worth Fcuking around with a duff battery now??

 

[Roymondo]

Don't know if this applies (much) to the Boxers, but my understanding is that some modern fuel injection and engine management systems can make bump starting all but impossible as the injectors won't fire without the engine already running unless the starter button is pressed - The idea being to prevent unburnt fuel poisoning the cat. Or maybe I've misunderstood how it was explained to me.

 

[Deleted account 200502001]

Are we talking bump starting, or jump starting. Are there strict rules for both?

 

[Roymondo]

I think we are talking about both. There is guidance/best practice for both techniques - but the Strict Rules are really only about polarity and electrical safety (when jump starting), as getting that wrong can have spectacular consequences. The other stuff is mostly about minimising the risk of causing other damage (or simply being able to get it to work in the first place - e.g. you'd not get far trying to bump start it in 1st or 2nd gear).

 

[King Key]

Not BM related, but my battery on a Triumph Sprint 1050 died whilst touring in France (it chose a fine time) I was at the top of a large hill and thought I'd bump start it, anyhow there was no way it would restart. The Triumph has a system where the ignition won't fire unless the crank turns a couple of rotations in a minimum time. In the end we made up some make shift jump leads and powered it off another bike.

 

[DrFarkoff]

Basically it is like I said above

If there is sufficient "Magic Smoke" available (as you do not need amps as you are not cranking with the starter)

The ecu will have the enough "Magic Smoke" to operate

The alternator will have enough "Magic Smoke" to excite the coils and generate more energy

The Fuel pump will have enough "Magic Smoke" to create fuel pressure

and the "Magic Smoke" will be able to move around the circuits at the speed of light to "switch" the injectors and spray fuel at the appropriate time

Whilst other "Magic Smoke" makes sparking things at the appropriate time also

If its really really sluggish STOP or you'll create huge surges of "Magic Smoke" through the system and quite possibilty damage the "Magic Smoke" management devices

Simply coupling another bike to your bike with jump leads and going positive to positive and frame earth to frame earth (rather than battery neg to battery neg) and letting it run for 5 or 10 mins (provided its not aircooled ) will transfer enough magic smoke usually to get you bump started

Don't know if this applies (much) to the Boxers, but my understanding is that some modern fuel injection and engine management systems can make bump starting all but impossible as the injectors won't fire without the engine already running unless the starter button is pressed - The idea being to prevent unburnt fuel poisoning the cat. Or maybe I've misunderstood how it was explained to me.

 

[Deleted account 200502001]

Thanks everyone. I have a Sealey RS1 for when I need to jump start my Land Rover. Would this be ok on the smaller battery of my GSA?

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Sealey-RS1-RoadStart-Emergency-Power/dp/B000R9Y5HI

 

[DrFarkoff]

If it has a charge facility? Use that for a while.

Otherwise I think the voltage spike or current surge could be quite detrimental to the ECU's on board

Your call though

Thanks everyone. I have a Sealey RS1 for when I need to jump start my Land Rover. Would this be ok on the smaller battery of my GSA?

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Sealey-RS1-RoadStart-Emergency-Power/dp/B000R9Y5HI

 

[kevmean]

Remember that connecting another battery of the same voltage is really only the same as reconnecting the original battery to the bike ( you go from no voltage on the systems to 12 volts as soon as you connect the lead) . Just remember to have the ignition switched off as you connect.

 

[davegs]

Are we talking bump starting, or jump starting. Are there strict rules for both?

Yeah, jump starting can save a long hard push up hill!!

 

[Roymondo]

Basically it is like I said above

If there is sufficient "Magic Smoke" available (as you do not need amps as you are not cranking with the starter)

The ecu will have the enough "Magic Smoke" to operate

The alternator will have enough "Magic Smoke" to excite the coils and generate more energy

The Fuel pump will have enough "Magic Smoke" to create fuel pressure

and the "Magic Smoke" will be able to move around the circuits at the speed of light to "switch" the injectors and spray fuel at the appropriate time

Whilst other "Magic Smoke" makes sparking things at the appropriate time also

If its really really sluggish STOP or you'll create huge surges of "Magic Smoke" through the system and quite possibilty damage the "Magic Smoke" management devices

Simply coupling another bike to your bike with jump leads and going positive to positive and frame earth to frame earth (rather than battery neg to battery neg) and letting it run for 5 or 10 mins (provided its not aircooled ) will transfer enough magic smoke usually to get you bump started

That's not what I was on about at all. I meant that some vehicles cannot be bump started (even with a fully charged battery) unless the starter button is pressed. Not because there's not enough Magic Smoke, but because "computer says no".

 

[cookie]

Simply coupling another bike to your bike with jump leads and going positive to positive and frame earth to frame earth (rather than battery neg to battery neg) and letting it run for 5 or 10 mins (provided its not aircooled ) will transfer enough magic smoke usually to get you bump started

what exactly is the difference in connecting that way, and how near the battery neg to frame earthing point can you go before it ceases to be a problem?

 

[DrFarkoff]

Cookie I don;t know 100% to be honest

My thoughts are derived from my pal who designs Electronic controller things for Siemens

Apart from the science lecture which he launched into, which was interesting and good "but" a little high brow for me!

but after he wittered I asked "So! Is it better if there's a big fook off bit of metal between the negative and the frame earth? and "Am I correct in thinking that it helps absorb some of the surge and spike?"

He looked at me blankly and said "That's What I just told you!"

No Pleasing some people

 

[Deleted account 200502001]

As far as I know, its advised to connect the negative leads to something metal like the bike frame because otherwise, a spark could occur and ignite any escaping gasses from the battery. But for years I would connect the negative lead to both negative battery terminals thinking I was doing the correct thing.

 

[buncobooth]

There is a section in the manual about this, it suggests you connect terminal to terminal for both. Not sure if the connect to a metal part works for a Canbus bike ? But I don't understand such things