k1200s

[BBB61]

Of what relevance is it how many posts I've written about it? Did you count the number of people who mentioned the problem? Did you note the fact that its been mentioned in tests in various moto-mags, one of which (CycleWorld?) even went to the trouble of removing the steering damper in an effort to solve the problem? The front end weave certainly wasn't a product of anyone's imagination.

I wasn't suggesting it never happened, but it is ancient history. I had to search back 2 years before I could find any mention of it which suggests to me that the issue was rectified quickly. Certainly a lot quicker than Triumph reacted to the brake problems on the various 1050 models.

Now you're just being deliberately obtuse. Your claim was that the length of time Triumph took to address the issue suggests that the problem wasn't an easy one to fix. My example shows how absurd that reasoning is. There is no logical relation between the length of time it takes before a manufacturer addresses a known problem and how difficult the problem was to address.

So the issue of a leaking tap which you can't be bothered to fix is comparable to a motorcycle manufacturing taking 2 years to rectify a problem? I don't think so. Maybe it was a case of Triumph not bothering their arse for 2 years until the outside pressure was too much and they HAD to do something about it, but I stand by my assertion that it took them 2 years because it wasn't that easy a solution. If it was and they had worked on it as soon as they were getting reports of the problem then the issue would have been rectified in 2005 instead of this year.

Were these failures you mention common to the breed? I'm genuinely curious, since I've heard no similar reports. If you can direct me to a Triumph website where complaints like these have been posted, I'd very much like to read about them. And I promise not to dismiss them merely because they happen to be on the internet.

I have no idea because I didn't discover any Triumph websites until 2004. But I do know one thing...................one so called reputable US based Triumph website has been known to delete threads where there is criticism of Triumph, so you won't get the full picture there. But the issue of the factory fit alarms, poor battery life and seizing chain adjuster mechanism are all well known on the 1999-2004 ST's. The issue of the alarms was sorted with the advent of the Datatool System 3 alarm, but that fix was only applied in about 2003.

 

[Aurelius]

I wasn't suggesting it never happened, but it is ancient history. I had to search back 2 years before I could find any mention of it which suggests to me that the issue was rectified quickly. Certainly a lot quicker than Triumph reacted to the brake problems on the various 1050 models.

It was 2006 when I was told by my dealership that BMW had redesigned the steering damper to fix the front end weave. Mine was swapped out under warranty. It seemed to work for a while, but then the weave returned. That's two years after the K1200S was released - the same amount of time it took Triumph to address the front brake issue. Furthermore, I have no evidence aside from your word that the problem has been rectified. I'd need to ride the new K1200S to determine that.

So the issue of a leaking tap which you can't be bothered to fix is comparable to a motorcycle manufacturing taking 2 years to rectify a problem? I don't think so. Maybe it was a case of Triumph not bothering their arse for 2 years until the outside pressure was too much and they HAD to do something about it, but I stand by my assertion that it took them 2 years because it wasn't that easy a solution.

The solution was so easy that it took the mechanic all of two hours to replace all six pistons and bleed the system. The problem with the old caliper pistons, I'm told, was that they weren't long enough so they made them longer. It doesn't get much simpler than that. If anything, you should be criticizing Triumph for having taken so long to address an elementary flaw which should have been spotted well before the bike even went into production.

I have no idea because I didn't discover any Triumph websites until 2004. But I do know one thing...................one so called reputable US based Triumph website has been known to delete threads where there is criticism of Triumph, so you won't get the full picture there.

I joined www.triumphrat.com, which I believe is a British based website. I don't know of any others. There's a "sticky" at the top of the Speed Triple page which deals exclusively with S3 problems. So far they seem to be of a very minor nature - the worst being a failed computer which was replaced under warranty. I haven't seen anything like what you experienced, though that doesn't mean that I plan to ignore what you've said. Quite the contrary, I'll be keeping a very close eye on oil usage and any strange sounds that might indicate a failing cam chain.

 

[timeandtide]

Has any one changed from a 1200gs to K1200s
whats your thoughts on the K1200s

Bet you wish you hadn't started this now!

 

[BBB61]

The solution was so easy that it took the mechanic all of two hours to replace all six pistons and bleed the system. The problem with the old caliper pistons, I'm told, was that they weren't long enough so they made them longer. It doesn't get much simpler than that. If anything, you should be criticizing Triumph for having taken so long to address an elementary flaw which should have been spotted well before the bike even went into production.

So I ask again why it took Triumph 2 years to react to the problem and come up with a fix for it?

I joined www.triumphrat.com, which I believe is a British based website. I don't know of any others. There's a "sticky" at the top of the Speed Triple page which deals exclusively with S3 problems. So far they seem to be of a very minor nature - the worst being a failed computer which was replaced under warranty. I haven't seen anything like what you experienced, though that doesn't mean that I plan to ignore what you've said. Quite the contrary, I'll be keeping a very close eye on oil usage and any strange sounds that might indicate a failing cam chain.

Triumphrat is run by Shawn Reed and he is in Arkansas I believe. He doesn't take too kindly to people expressing an opinion that is contrary to his, especially if it hurts his ego With Triumphrat its not what you see on there but the stuff they delete. It is not a very liberal site.

 

[Aurelius]

So I ask again why it took Triumph 2 years to react to the problem and come up with a fix for it?

This is a question that has come up many times, and not just in motorcycle forums. Why, for instance, did Nikon continue to make cameras with plastic latches that would invariably break during normal use? Why does Mercedes continue to produce premium cars with bumpers incapable of withstanding a 5 mph impact? Why did McDonalds continue to serve coffee at temperatures hot enough to cause third degree burns even after 700 reported injuries? Some speculate that manufacturers conciously avoid fixing known defects because doing so would tacitly acknowlege their awareness of the problem, thereby opening the door to a raft of negligence suits. I don't know whether that's true, but its as good an explanation as any I've heard.

Triumphrat is run by Shawn Reed and he is in Arkansas I believe. He doesn't take too kindly to people expressing an opinion that is contrary to his, especially if it hurts his ego With Triumphrat its not what you see on there but the stuff they delete. It is not a very liberal site.

Are there any better alternatives? Triumphrat is the only website of its kind that I'm familiar with.

 

[jnrobert]

Ah yes, the psychology of denial. You’ve paid a lot of money for a motorcycle, thinking it’s a quality product, but suddenly someone comes along to challenge that belief. What do you do? The usual response; “Well nothing has gone wrong with my bike so I don’t believe there’s a problem,” only makes you look stupid, so that plainly won’t do. A much more promising strategy is to demand irrefutable proof from an unimpeachable source, knowing that this criterion can never be satisfied. For any evidence supplied, respond with the claim that its unreliable, or that the sample is too small, or that the complainants have some hidden agenda and therefore aren’t to be trusted. With this strategy, any threat to the confidence you repose in your bike can be easily sidestepped.

You must still be trying to get your tongue out of your cheek after writing that Andrew. Apparently, to avoid any accusation of denial, you believe everything

 

[BBB61]

Are there any better alternatives? Triumphrat is the only website of its kind that I'm familiar with.

www.t595.net. Much more anarchic than Triumphrat.net but more liberal too. Triumphrat is very restrictive and they don't like people posting negative things about Triumphs that much, especially if the poster doesn't even have a Triumph! It's bad enough if you still have a Triumph and you post about your disatisfaction. Threads do get deleted there, unlike here and T595.net where criticism of the brand can be made (though don't expect a smooth ride if you do make adverse comments but you can make them without being banned by the site owner ot having your posts deleted ).

 

[Aurelius]

www.t595.net. Much more anarchic than Triumphrat.net but more liberal too. Triumphrat is very restrictive and they don't like people posting negative things about Triumphs that much, especially if the poster doesn't even have a Triumph! It's bad enough if you still have a Triumph and you post about your disatisfaction. Threads do get deleted there, unlike here and T595.net where criticism of the brand can be made (though don't expect a smooth ride if you do make adverse comments but you can make them without being banned by the site owner ot having your posts deleted ).

Cool, thanks for the link. Last night I plowed through all 300+ postings listing problems with Speed Triples. I was relieved to find nothing major, except for one complaint about a broken cam chain. There was one post about unusually high oil consumption, which you also mentioned, but the problem was fixed under warranty and the owner left no clue as to the possible cause. Two complained of battery acid leaking out onto the rear shock, causing some corrosion, and there were numerous complaints from owners of pre-'05 models regarding broken clutch cables (allegedly Triumph addressed this problem on the 1050's). So there are a number of minor things to be aware of, but nothing to make me reconsider my planned 2000 mile road trip next month. Just out of curiosity, did you mention all the problems you experienced with your Sprint on Triumphrat? If so, what was the response?

 

[BBB61]

Andrew, I did mention the problems I had with my first ST in one of my posts and the response I got was along the lines of "well if you had all those problems, why the hell did you buy another!" The simple answer why I bought another was because after the problems were all sorted the bike was good as gold and ran beautifully, just needing consumables, and it was a cracking motorcycle. It was the second one, which had less serious issues, which was the straw that broke the camels back, or rather the warranty departments reaction and their refusal to honour the warranty that has made me turn my back on Triumph for good.

 

[Aurelius]

Andrew, I did mention the problems I had with my first ST in one of my posts and the response I got was along the lines of "well if you had all those problems, why the hell did you buy another!" The simple answer why I bought another was because after the problems were all sorted the bike was good as gold and ran beautifully, just needing consumables, and it was a cracking motorcycle. It was the second one, which had less serious issues, which was the straw that broke the camels back, or rather the warranty departments reaction and their refusal to honour the warranty that has made me turn my back on Triumph for good.

I think that if I'd had your experience with the first one, that would have been it for me. Maybe I just have a lower level of tolerance. Having wittnessed the incompetence of the mechanics at the local Triumph dealership (a building I designed, by the way), I've resolved never to bring the bike there again. One of the bolts on the right brake caliper was stuck, and they refused to remove it before first obtaining authorization from Triumph in case it broke or had been cross threaded. I grabbed the wrench from the grease monkey working on the bike and managed to extract the bolt without even using a breaker bar. The only thing wrong with it was that it had apparently been over-torqued at the factory. I'm told by someone who used to work there that this type of behavior is common at Cycle Riders: anything out of the ordinary, no matter how minor, must first be cleared by Triumph before they'll continue the work. I don't know whether this is Triumph's policy or just the service manager's fear of possible litigation, but it explains the rediculous delays I've heard about from others who have had service work done there.

 

[BBB61]

Triumph policy is that any warranty issues have to be cleared by them first, which is very different to BMW (in the UK at least). Here a BMW dealer can authorise a lot of work on the spot.

I was prepared to give it a go because I really did like my first ST and it took me on some wonderful trips around Europe with no problems at all. The issues with the second were minor in comparison to the first, but they all related to poor build quality. Whilst the factory were very good first time round, they were a complete pain with the second ST. My dealer also confirmed this and said they had to fight for their customers on many occasions often with Triumph still refusing to honour their obligations.

 

[Aurelius]

Triumph policy is that any warranty issues have to be cleared by them first, which is very different to BMW (in the UK at least). Here a BMW dealer can authorise a lot of work on the spot.

I was prepared to give it a go because I really did like my first ST and it took me on some wonderful trips around Europe with no problems at all. The issues with the second were minor in comparison to the first, but they all related to poor build quality. Whilst the factory were very good first time round, they were a complete pain with the second ST. My dealer also confirmed this and said they had to fight for their customers on many occasions often with Triumph still refusing to honour their obligations.

Well, my S3 is one month out of warranty so I suppose I won't have to worry about that. My original Triumph of choice was the ST 1050, but it got horrible reviews. A couple of moto journalists suggesting that it was a step backward from the previous model (which they praised).

Oh, and you were right about the price of Triumph parts. Not only are they frighteningly high, but I can't find any discount mail-order source for them like I could for every other bike I've owned. I suppose its a good thing that they're built so solidly that I'll never have to buy any replacement parts, eh?