KTM v GS build quality.

[Katy M]

This is not ‘which bike is better post’, although quite honestly, after 600 miles of (1250) GSA ownership, the jury is still out for me! In comparison, when I first rode the 1290 SAR it was love, no lust, at first ride and it hasn't really gone away. A truly amazing machine. The GS has not lit any fire under me as the 1290 did. When I came back from my first 150 mile ride on the GS I was really, really worried I had made a very expensive mistake. But the GS does have some pros over the 1290 that I just had to get out of my system - comfort and a more laid back ride being the top ones - and it is gradually growing on me.

Whilst this may sound like a 'which bike is best' thread but it's not intended that way. I've discussed the pros and cons time and again with my GS owning mates and there is no answer to the question - each can negate one and others points one way or another.

However, reputation suggests and a lot of GS owners swear, that their bikes are built better than a KTM, it's supposed to be one of the reasons to buy a BM. So having just jumped ship and become a GS owner I feel I can do a back-to-back comparioson and I’m not so sure BM's reputation is so deserved.
Here are some +/- points for and against.

+ KTM remote key seems far more robust.
- BM’s feels flimsy in comparison.
- BM's cubby hole 'lock' is very poor. It just wobbles about.
+ KTM put their keyless over-ride near the easy to reach head stock.
- BM’s is accessed under the rear mudguard!
+ KTM’s cockpit is enclosed protecting cables and junction blocks from weather and dirt.
- BM’s is open and exposed.
+ KTM’s underseat rear is covered edge to edge stopping a lot of crap coming up.
- BM’s GS has big gaps so you have to buy a mudsling.
+ KTM’s seat material looks far nicer and if it may last.
+ BM’s is more comfortable (just, according to my skinny butt) but seems to be made of rather flimsy material.
+ KTM’s TFT is bigger and has the custom info you want on display - you don’t have to scroll a menu.
+ BM’s have more buttons making access to some features quicker.
+ KTM have some useful storage under seat; tool kit, puncture kit.
- BM has none.
+ KTM give you a decent and useful tool kit.
- BM give you a …screw driver.
+ KTM’s seem equally as well screwed together as a BM.
+ KTM paint and plastics are easily on a par if not better. The decals seem more robust and have a good layer of clear coat on them.
+ KTM give you a nice, neoprene A4 sized wallet to keep your docs together.
- BM’s is a very nasty cheap plastic ‘thing’.
+ BM’s spoked wheels are better designed for tubeless.
+ BM have a dedicated button for fog lights.
- KTM’s are amateurishly added and hard to reach.

 

[wessie]

you seem to be writing more about design rather than quality

quality is not just about the look & build of a new bike but the durability and the back up from the dealer and manufacturer. It's a bit early for you to measure these variables with any objectivity.

 

[Bigcats]

I would then ask

Why leave KTM then if it lit a fire??

 

[cookie]

My KTM frame is powder coated. GS appears to be done in water colours.

 

[EVskiy]

I find KTM gloss black painted wheels still look good on mine after 23500 miles. BM alloy wheels don’t loom as nice and spoked black wheels looked shite after just 12000 miles.
Engine paint on KTM is by far superior to that found on BM 1200/1250LC.
Although some paint is chipped in mine now from stone chips.
I love my 2018 1290 SAS, and really would like the latest grey white variant, however, the cost of one is prohibitive at the moment.

 

[EVskiy]

I would then ask

Why leave KTM then if it lit a fire??

Funny enough I thought same.
The only reason I’d leave KTM at the moment, would be, If it become to heavy or even to fast.
KTM warranty claims are questionable, and dealers (in the uk at least) seem to be more interested in selling off-road green laneing bikes. Rather than looking after their customers. I have recently been ripped of by my dealer, without them even trying to prove why my service cost £350 more than quoted. Based on that and despite them only being 8 miles away, I shall not be going back. I will sooner go 50-60 miles away, but end up feeling like I have been looked after.

 

[Bigcats]

Funny enough I thought same.
The only reason I’d leave KTM at the moment, would be, If it become to heavy or even to fast.
KTM warranty claims are questionable, and dealers (in the uk at least) seem to be more interested in selling off-road green laneing bikes. Rather than looking after their customers. I have recently been ripped of by my dealer, without them even trying to prove why my service cost £350 more than quoted. Based on that and despite them only being 8 miles away, I shall not be going back. I will sooner go 50-60 miles away, but end up feeling like I have been looked after.

I have never owned KTM but I must admit I have heard horror stories about our local KTM dealer (Gosport) and a small man syndrome guy with his customers

I mean how can it cost £350 MORE.....thats a complete service

A GS main 12k service is £510 ffs

 

[EVskiy]

I have never owned KTM but I must admit I have heard horror stories about our local KTM dealer (Gosport) and a small man syndrome guy with his customers

I mean how can it cost £350 MORE.....thats a complete service

A GS main 12k service is £510 ffs

That was a valve service. Needing 3 new shims (aparently) which I never been shown when asked for. The things cost £3.50 each. They quoted me £800-850. Ended up being £1100.00
They have also reset my chain tension from what @Stevie4scoops & I tensioned it to. A chap at a Yamaha dealer in Rennes on a recent trip to France tensioned it again correctly (yes complete drivetrain is original) despite me not asking him to do so. He was only meant to put a new tyre on, but he had even lubricated it for me, and only charged £30 for the lot. What a legend, gave him my last €5 in cash, although he did deserve more, seeing as it was 5:45pm on a sunny Saturday.

The advantage of a GS main service cost being lower due to the motor layout. With KTM it is a fuel tank and every panel around it has to come off, same goes for an air filter change/inspection.

 

[TIJ650]

This is not ‘which bike is better post’, although quite honestly, after 600 miles of (1250) GSA ownership, the jury is still out for me! In comparison, when I first rode the 1290 SAR it was love, no lust, at first ride and it hasn't really gone away. A truly amazing machine. The GS has not lit any fire under me as the 1290 did. When I came back from my first 150 mile ride on the GS I was really, really worried I had made a very expensive mistake. But the GS does have some pros over the 1290 that I just had to get out of my system - comfort and a more laid back ride being the top ones - and it is gradually growing on me.

Whilst this may sound like a 'which bike is best' thread but it's not intended that way. I've discussed the pros and cons time and again with my GS owning mates and there is no answer to the question - each can negate one and others points one way or another.

However, reputation suggests and a lot of GS owners swear, that their bikes are built better than a KTM, it's supposed to be one of the reasons to buy a BM. So having just jumped ship and become a GS owner I feel I can do a back-to-back comparioson and I’m not so sure BM's reputation is so deserved.
Here are some +/- points for and against.

+ KTM remote key seems far more robust.
- BM’s feels flimsy in comparison.
- BM's cubby hole 'lock' is very poor. It just wobbles about.
+ KTM put their keyless over-ride near the easy to reach head stock.
- BM’s is accessed under the rear mudguard!
+ KTM’s cockpit is enclosed protecting cables and junction blocks from weather and dirt.
- BM’s is open and exposed.
+ KTM’s underseat rear is covered edge to edge stopping a lot of crap coming up.
- BM’s GS has big gaps so you have to buy a mudsling.
+ KTM’s seat material looks far nicer and if it may last.
+ BM’s is more comfortable (just, according to my skinny butt) but seems to be made of rather flimsy material.
+ KTM’s TFT is bigger and has the custom info you want on display - you don’t have to scroll a menu.
+ BM’s have more buttons making access to some features quicker.
+ KTM have some useful storage under seat; tool kit, puncture kit.
- BM has none.
+ KTM give you a decent and useful tool kit.
- BM give you a …screw driver.
+ KTM’s seem equally as well screwed together as a BM.
+ KTM paint and plastics are easily on a par if not better. The decals seem more robust and have a good layer of clear coat on them.
+ KTM give you a nice, neoprene A4 sized wallet to keep your docs together.
- BM’s is a very nasty cheap plastic ‘thing’.
+ BM’s spoked wheels are better designed for tubeless.
+ BM have a dedicated button for fog lights.
- KTM’s are amateurishly added and hard to reach.

Sounds like you’re looking for some contrarian arguments for making the switch?!
I’ve owned 3 KTM’s, but not the big adventure ones. From my experience, the KTM is a more focused ride, but the BMW feels more planted with better longevity. I prefer the BM cause I’ve slowed down a bit. Think it’ll last longer too (and I keep my bikes generally)
Big ‘elephant in the room’ is the Chinese parts on the KTM……….and that’s a straight red for me

 

[Bigcats]

That was a valve service. Needing 3 new shims (aparently) which I never been shown when asked for. The things cost £3.50 each. They quoted me £800-850. Ended up being £1100.00
They have also reset my chain tension from what @Stevie4scoops & I tensioned it to. A chap at a Yamaha dealer in Rennes on a recent trip to France tensioned it again correctly (yes complete drivetrain is original) despite me not asking him to do so. He was only meant to put a new tyre on, but he had even lubricated it for me, and only charged £30 for the lot. What a legend, gave him my last €5 in cash, although he did deserve more, seeing as it was 5:45pm on a sunny Saturday.

The advantage of a GS main service cost being lower due to the motor layout. With KTM it is a fuel tank and every panel around it has to come off, same goes for an air filter change/inspection.

Yeah I do love how easily everything is to access on my GSA

That's alone is worth big brownie points for me

 

[snerkler]

I don't know about quality, but I was disappointed in the KTM when I took it for a test ride, the seat was incredibly uncomfortable and I really didn't like the engine characteristics especially if you wanted to ride it lazily, it really didn't like lower revs from my experience.

It's odd as some rave about it, especially the engine so I'm clearly missing something

 

[RedRick Esq.]

Sounds like you’re looking for some contrarian arguments for making the switch?!
I’ve owned 3 KTM’s, but not the big adventure ones. From my experience, the KTM is a more focused ride, but the BMW feels more planted with better longevity. I prefer the BM cause I’ve slowed down a bit. Think it’ll last longer too (and I keep my bikes generally)
Big ‘elephant in the room’ is the Chinese parts on the KTM……….and that’s a straight red for me

And you dont think that the MBW has as many if not more chinese made parts ??

 

[wessie]

And you dont think that the MBW has as many if not more chinese made parts ??

and Mexican, Indian, Brazilian, Turkish and Vietnamese all using Russian gas & oil to power their factories

 

[Mr Derek]

My Super Duke GT was plagued with electrical gremlins. The fuel filler wouldn't open, the electric pre load wouldn't adjust and the rear brake warning light was saying a problem that 2 KTM dealers couldn't find. This was all in the first 2,500 miles and it was on the way back from a 600 mile weekend that I decided that I really wanted to go back to a GS. 2 days later the px was sorted.
No problems with the GS. Better panniers, much better TFT. Surprisingly similar riding position except much lower bars on the SDGT, but the SDGT wins on comfort. I occasionally miss the power of the KTM, but not often and I'm now thinking about my next bike, which needs to be lighter following my back injury, but still capable of 2 up touring. Tracer GT+ maybe?

 

[EVskiy]

I don't know about quality, but I was disappointed in the KTM when I took it for a test ride, the seat was incredibly uncomfortable and I really didn't like the engine characteristics especially if you wanted to ride it lazily, it really didn't like lower revs from my experience.

It's odd as some rave about it, especially the engine so I'm clearly missing something

I was same when I test rode a 2017 KTM Super Adventure T after coming of a 2014 1200 GS. It does become very apparent that the GS is lazy to ride, KTM is engaging and keeps on asking for more. You do not have to push it or your limits, but you do have to be in the right gear at the right time sort of thing. So rejected it, as not suitable for me. More like I wasn’t willing to adapt and the lack of modern tech on it such as LED headlamp, LCD display etc, was a non starter for me. I had also noticed that. Handlebars were slightly narrower too.
So purchased a 2017 1200 GSA. Kept that for 18ish months and then went to try a KTM once again. This time round it was a 2018 SAS. I liked it, the deal was on the table and as usual KTM were chopping a big lump from the asking price at Christmas time.
I have replaced rear brake pads only once on KTM that was done at 20500 miles or at the begining of June. The front pads have plenty of life in them. The engine braking is great on KTM, hence why you also want to be in the right gear at the right time or it’ll stutter before you think it will.
On both my GS and GSA I had to replace rear pads every 5000-6000 miles. Which was annoying. Front had to be replaced once in the GS. Hadn’t touched them on GSA.
Pillion comfort on GSA is better too. My wife had noticed this straight away, there is simply a bit more room compared to KTM.

If my wife wasn’t to come along as a Pillion, then I’d be very very tempted to buy DUCATI Desert X. I just love the look of that bike and it is plenty fast enough as was being demonstrated by one other in our party on a recent trip, it Waldo sounds incredible.

 

[GSMarky]

This is not ‘which bike is better post’, although quite honestly, after 600 miles of (1250) GSA ownership, the jury is still out for me! In comparison, when I first rode the 1290 SAR it was love, no lust, at first ride and it hasn't really gone away. A truly amazing machine. The GS has not lit any fire under me as the 1290 did. When I came back from my first 150 mile ride on the GS I was really, really worried I had made a very expensive mistake. But the GS does have some pros over the 1290 that I just had to get out of my system - comfort and a more laid back ride being the top ones - and it is gradually growing on me.

Whilst this may sound like a 'which bike is best' thread but it's not intended that way. I've discussed the pros and cons time and again with my GS owning mates and there is no answer to the question - each can negate one and others points one way or another.

However, reputation suggests and a lot of GS owners swear, that their bikes are built better than a KTM, it's supposed to be one of the reasons to buy a BM. So having just jumped ship and become a GS owner I feel I can do a back-to-back comparioson and I’m not so sure BM's reputation is so deserved.
Here are some +/- points for and against.

+ KTM remote key seems far more robust.
- BM’s feels flimsy in comparison.
- BM's cubby hole 'lock' is very poor. It just wobbles about.
+ KTM put their keyless over-ride near the easy to reach head stock.
- BM’s is accessed under the rear mudguard!
+ KTM’s cockpit is enclosed protecting cables and junction blocks from weather and dirt.
- BM’s is open and exposed.
+ KTM’s underseat rear is covered edge to edge stopping a lot of crap coming up.
- BM’s GS has big gaps so you have to buy a mudsling.
+ KTM’s seat material looks far nicer and if it may last.
+ BM’s is more comfortable (just, according to my skinny butt) but seems to be made of rather flimsy material.
+ KTM’s TFT is bigger and has the custom info you want on display - you don’t have to scroll a menu.
+ BM’s have more buttons making access to some features quicker.
+ KTM have some useful storage under seat; tool kit, puncture kit.
- BM has none.
+ KTM give you a decent and useful tool kit.
- BM give you a …screw driver.
+ KTM’s seem equally as well screwed together as a BM.
+ KTM paint and plastics are easily on a par if not better. The decals seem more robust and have a good layer of clear coat on them.
+ KTM give you a nice, neoprene A4 sized wallet to keep your docs together.
- BM’s is a very nasty cheap plastic ‘thing’.
+ BM’s spoked wheels are better designed for tubeless.
+ BM have a dedicated button for fog lights.
- KTM’s are amateurishly added and hard to reach.

I sold my 2018 KTM 1290 SAS for my 2020 GS TE Rallye & for me the SOS, shaft drive, dash and ergonomics are a step up from the SAS. Also the GS feels generally just more robust. I now have the GSA and didn't even consider another SAS. Had plenty of KTM enduro bikes over the years going back to the mid 90's, three Super Duke Rs (x1 990 & x2 1290) & a 690R, so I do like a KTM and have no actual bias either way.

 

[TIJ650]

And you dont think that the MBW has as many if not more chinese made parts ??

Okay and accepted.
I’ll just play the shaft drive card that was tucked in my back pocket then!

 

[EVskiy]

My Super Duke GT was plagued with electrical gremlins. The fuel filler wouldn't open, the electric pre load wouldn't adjust and the rear brake warning light was saying a problem that 2 KTM dealers couldn't find. This was all in the first 2,500 miles and it was on the way back from a 600 mile weekend that I decided that I really wanted to go back to a GS. 2 days later the px was sorted.
No problems with the GS. Better panniers, much better TFT. Surprisingly similar riding position except much lower bars on the SDGT, but the SDGT wins on comfort. I occasionally miss the power of the KTM, but not often and I'm now thinking about my next bike, which needs to be lighter following my back injury, but still capable of 2 up touring. Tracer GT+ maybe?

There is a nicely sorted one in Guernsey up for sale with barely any miles on it.

@Bonnie Tyler just PX it again the his GP. It has every farcle once can think off from Yamaha catalogue on it.

 

[TIJ650]

and Mexican, Indian, Brazilian, Turkish and Vietnamese all using Russian gas & oil to power their factories

Been to all those countries - so not offended by any. Hell is wrong with Russian oil and gas? Wish they’d sell directly to the general public rather than 85% tax our fuckwits charge

 

[RedRick Esq.]

Okay and accepted.
I’ll just play the shaft drive card that was tucked in my back pocket then!

Remind me how much a new shaft costs Vs a new chain and sprockets and how much power the shaft saps compared to a chain

And dont tell me shafts dont fail