LAZY STARTER

[Roosterfish]

Any advice please guys. 2011 aircooled bike with 53,000 miles. Often when it's really cold the starter motor is pretty sluggish, it always starts in the end but have had some worrying moments. Could it be a shite earth or should I get a new starter?

 

[JJH]

there are a few checks to do before changing the starter. How is the battery holding up? Check connections before you spend. There are a few people with the same problems because they didnt check everything JJH

 

[AustinW]

I went through the same problem, same bike year (A GSA) but more miles, about this time last year. Turned out to be the starter.

Check the battery first. Just volts when cold and with the engine running. If low volts then replace the battery. If OK run a jump lead between the battery earth and one of the mounting bolts for the starter. Try it. If starting has improved then remove the tank and clean up the earth that hides beneath - all should now be good. If no better (with the jump lead) check, clean up and tighten the connection at the starter positive terminal on its solenoid - big thick wire (top tip - disconnect the battery earth before putting a spanner on the bolt - you will inevitably touch the frame while undoing it and get a lot of sparks and a big surprise). If that doesn't do it it's probably the starter. Remove it (dead easy - two bolts albeit a bit fiddly access). The starters can be stripped down, cleaned, lubed, and the wear parts replaced. A 2011 model year will be almost certainly be a bosch starter. Ebay for the parts or search on here as someone posted the part number needed for a refurb kit. In the end I replaced my starter despite a strip down and refurb (although I suspect dropping the thing - twice - didn't help ). All was and remains good with a new starter.

 

[steve hughes]

2011 plenty of time for shit to build up on stRter cables battery connections as stated above. Start at the battery remove connections, clean em , blow through with contact cleaner , vaseline if exposed and generally check the heLth of the route. Look where are the earths? Has it been powder coated and not rubbed back? Give it a good charge and then decide if you need a new battery

 

[UturnTony]

My TC has been exactly the same since I bought it at 20k, it's now done 60k. It's never failed to start yet.

 

[Bendy toy]

I stripped and cleaned my slow starter. It improved but still wasn’t right. Proof of impending trouble was jump leads to a car battery - starter was much the same.
Fuel pump problems needing lots of start attempts finally killed the old starter.

However the remanufactured replacement motor is not especially enthusiastic though it always starts the bike.

 

[Zorro]

My TC does the same, even on an Optimate. But it has always started though so I now ignore it.
If I ride it everyday like during a recent 2 months long trip it is absolutely fine.

 

[AustinW]

just another thought.... if its the same whether the engine is hot or cold then perhaps go with guys who says its been ok for xxxx months/years/miles. If however its slower/worse when hot then its probably not going to be OK and will probably need a a new starter motor or possibly a new battery before too long.

 

[tezz]

i have a 12 tc and owned from 7k -been the same all the time -always started so just put up with it as its- character- as germans say

 

[Bryn]

I've got an Odyssey battery on mine ... A 2010 Twincam which I got last March with 70,000 miles on it but I'm not sure how old the battery actually is.. It starts fine when cold, but if for instance its hot and you stall it, when you press the button it seems to start to turn over, then stops , as though the pistons can't complete a revolution, then it bursts into life on the same press Never failed to start though

Voltage on the battery seems fine when cranking etc.

 

[Roosterfish]

Thanks for your input fella's. I replaced the battery a month ago so it's deffo not that. I'll clean up the terminals and see if that helps, if not might just live with it as others seem to do. Strange that Jap bikes never seem to suffer from this problem (or not the ones I've owned).
BTW, nice mild day to get all the shitty salt off it.

 

[AustinW]

I've got an Odyssey battery on mine ... A 2010 Twincam which I got last March with 70,000 miles on it but I'm not sure how old the battery actually is.. It starts fine when cold, but if for instance its hot and you stall it, when you press the button it seems to start to turn over, then stops , as though the pistons can't complete a revolution, then it bursts into life on the same press Never failed to start though

Voltage on the battery seems fine when cranking etc.

Mine was just like that and I lived with it for a year or two until one day it wouldn't turn the hot engine over after q very brief stop. After I had flattened the battery I waited for the recovery truck and guess what, cold engine + jump leads = lazy turns of the starter and a restart. Back at home with it hot again it would just about turn the engine over. Only time until failed again.

What I think was wrong with mine was the solenoid was a bit sticky (whats the bit called that gets thrown onto starter ring on the flywheel?). Anyway that bit was sticking and whenever I dismantled the starter that was stiff and not really wanting to move back so I reckon the starter was staying engaged with the flywheel and spinning at engine speed and getting very very hot (way too hot to touch even with a wet finger). That sort of heat is not good for magnets and electricity resulting in a slow starter all the time and very slow or or even a non-functioning starter when it was hot.

 

[UturnTony]

I doubt veeerrry much the starter was staying in mesh with the egine running.
If it did, the starter would be ripped to pieces by the centrifugal forces generated at the 1000's of rpm. the starter would be doing.
The starter would be spinning far in excess of engine speed as the (driving) ring gear is much bigger than the (driven) starter gear.

 

[Bendy toy]

I've got an Odyssey battery on mine ... A 2010 Twincam which I got last March with 70,000 miles on it but I'm not sure how old the battery actually is.. It starts fine when cold, but if for instance its hot and you stall it, when you press the button it seems to start to turn over, then stops , as though the pistons can't complete a revolution, then it bursts into life on the same press Never failed to start though

Voltage on the battery seems fine when cranking etc.

Your symptoms suggests a weak starter motor. Mine was doing this before i finally killed it when the fuel pump packed up. Hot motor windings - weak insulation - weak performance. Motor is pulling less current (than it should), so volt drop looks ok.

 

[Bryn]

Austin/Bendy/Tony

Thanks for your input on this .... I'll probably get around to having the starter motor refurbed this summer...... At least it gives me an idea of where to go

 

[AustinW]

I doubt veeerrry much the starter was staying in mesh with the egine running.
If it did, the starter would be ripped to pieces by the centrifugal forces generated at the 1000's of rpm. the starter would be doing.
The starter would be spinning far in excess of engine speed as the (driving) ring gear is much bigger than the (driven) starter gear.

Yeah, you are probably right but the starter was always waaaay hotter than the rest of the engine so something weird was going on.

 

[Bendy toy]

When the starter is just as weak cold as it is when hot you’ll know it’s time for a new one.

 

[Bryn]

When the starter is just as weak cold as it is when hot you’ll know it’s time for a new one.

It's fine when cold so maybe it will be a while before a refurb is needed

.

 

[Bendy toy]

It's fine when cold so maybe it will be a while before a refurb is needed

.

I thought that but stalling in traffic was not much fun as it refused to start acting like the battery was flat. Once cooled it started, though reluctantly, because it wasn't stone cold.