Lazy starting

[DaveS]

Some advice please.

1150GS 2003 Twin Spark 30K miles.
Hawker battery new approx 12 months ago.

Noticed a while back that the bike was getting difficult to start. I thought it was the battery and/or needed a service. Have kept on with this for a while.
However the bike failed to start and the clock reset itself suggesting low power from the battery. I decided that the 12 month old Hawker must be shagged despite charging it up on a regular basis. Bought a new gel battery 19AH rating.
And the bike is still very slow and lazy at starting, but it does now start.
There seems to be a louder than normal noise when starting, it really appears to be grinding.
The bike runs absolutely fine when running and I recently did a full service, valves, throttle bodies, etc... this hasn't improved matters.
If relevant I'm running 20/50 oil although I have been using that for a while with no probs.
I also very occasionally get a puff of blue smoke on startup, especially when left overnight, and I'm not sure if that's normal or not. I don't notice any abnormal oil consumption, in fact it seems to be reducing now.

Any ideas?
Is the starter knackered?

 

[MOTOTECH]

If the battery is ok. it sounds like you have a starter motor, or earth problem. I would check these out before you start thinking about engine problems.
Has it always smoked at start up, or is this just since the starting problem?
Brian
www.moto-tech.biz

 

[pablo666]

If it were a car I'd say bendix or ring gear shagged. Could be brushes in the starter motor also. Take off starter and have a look at the cogs/ring gear for wear. Check starter motor brushes. Turn by hand does it stick or grind? Check all electrical contacts.
HTH

 

[DaveS]

The smoking at start-up *could* be related to the starting problems, but as I say I'm not really loosing any oil, and it only happens on start-up.
I had assumed that because the bike is on its side stand that a tiny bit of oil was leaking in to the left hand cylinder bore and was burning on start-up. The smoke goes quickly after a rev or two.

My uneducated guess is that its starter motor on it's way out. The bike has a fairly hard life in use every single day.
I think I'll have it out and see if I can see anything. The thing is I do rely on the bike so need it to be reliable!

 

[(RIP) MOTÖRHEAD]

Dave,
Re starter - may be worth taking the starter out and cleaning it. Very easy job.
I know my symptoms where different, but I guess starters will act in different ways depending on how much crud could be on it.
If nothing else, at least you'll be inspecting it.
Just a thought.

Here's a thread->

http://www.ukgser.com/forums/showthread.php?t=137012

 

[(RIP) Kaister]

STARTER MOTOR

 

[twincam]

if it was a car we were talking about i would say it was without doubt a dodgy starter motor i see no reason why it should be any different for your bike the symptoms of a dodgy starter motor are exactly the same as a knackered battery the puff of blue smoke on start up is more likely to be down to a slightly worn cylinder or rings but if it is just a puff i really wouldnt worry too much as long as the bike is regularly serviced and oil checked

 

[(RIP) MOTÖRHEAD]

the puff of blue smoke on start up is more likely to be down to a slightly worn cylinder or rings but if it is just a puff i really wouldnt worry too much as long as the bike is regularly serviced and oil checked

Or simply a bit of oil down the valve guides being burnt off. Especially if the bike has been on it's side stand.

 

[twincam]

quite so motorhead quite so

 

[Big E]

Dave,
Re starter - may be worth taking the starter out and cleaning it. Very easy job.
I know my symptoms where different, but I guess starters will act in different ways depending on how much crud could be on it.
If nothing else, at least you'll be inspecting it.
Just a thought.

Here's a thread->

http://www.ukgser.com/forums/showthread.php?t=137012

I have had the same problem with lazy starting on my 1150GSA. I have taken the starter motor out today, as you did and also discovered the starter pinion to have a thick film of black/grey grease on it. I cleaned it all of but I did not strip the motor down as this is a bit beyond me, just cleaned it the best I could and replaced.

How important is to keep the Starter Pinion clean? And by cleaning the gunk off, will this make a difference

 

[twincam]

lets just think about the life a starter motor has, how many times does it spin over i.e. how many times do you start your bike ? yes the humble starter motor has a hard life and it is after all a wearing part so i guess we shouldnt be too surprised when occasionally they go wrong. maybe we take the humble starter motor for granted so next time yer down the pub raise your glass to that little piece of machinary that 99.9% of the time gets us going day in day out. I love starter motors

 

[(RIP) MOTÖRHEAD]

How important is to keep the Starter Pinion clean? And by cleaning the gunk off, will this make a difference

If it's gunked up then, yes, cleaning it will make the difference. Cleaning it will mean it will engage properly and easily in order to turn the engine over. If the little cog moves up the shaft and the sprung wishbone type arm moves it back with ease - that part is sorted.

Once it's clean, reinstalled and still doesn't put a stop to any bad symptoms, you can then undo the 3 bolts, pull it off & then start to take it apart and see what else needs cleaning / sorting. It really isn't hard to take apart and put back together.

 

[Big E]

Thanks Motorhead,

I did partly strip it down by removing the front cover,everything seemed to be moving as you describe but needed a good clean.

I will see how my next few starts go.

 

[(RIP) MOTÖRHEAD]

Thanks Motorhead,

I did partly strip it down by removing the front cover,everything seemed to be moving as you describe but needed a good clean.

I will see how my next few starts go.

No worries.
Lets hope that all it did need was a clean. If not, well...time to think a little harder & delve a little deeper to solve the problem.

 

[Chris G]

Starter motor- mine went the same way, I found out that the field magnets inside the motor are glued in- rather than clamped or fastened any other way, baslcally the magnets start to catch on the rotor when the starter is running, and get ground away- to the point where they don't spin the motor- solution replace the motor [£125 exchange @ motorworks et al, or some USA firm has re engineered the motor so the magents can't fall out]

motor change - 20mins tops - just be careful wiv da big wires! [or disconnect the battery]

 

[DaveS]

Yep the starter is shagged.

Fished it out and here's some photo's to demonstrate what's wrong.
Am now looking for a new or reconditioned one (have posted in the for sale / wanted forum).

I guess this is where the grinding sounds coming from!!

 

[(RIP) MOTÖRHEAD]

Yep the starter is shagged

Banjaxed!
Oh dear