Les Wassell HID & Autoswitch - have you this combination fitted?

My mistake in the drawing, the autoswitch does not supply any feed for the HIDs.

Normal hallogen bulbs use just a filament and have no control circuitry. HID's use a ballast to step up the voltage (35kV) using inductors as well as transistors/capacitors etc.

I am thinking that after the lamp has arc'd at 35kV the circuit stabalizes and there is a collapse of this 'field' in the inductors which seems to be upsetting the autoswitch causing it to bounce the relay's energising coil.

Remember the autoswitch is activated by a grounded switching so any noise (seen as transient spikes) would cause unpredictable results...

Anyway, I currently have 2 autoswitches controlling 3 sets of lights and I have no problem (as I would expect). I will be upgrading one set to HID (like my headlight and highbeam) so I will let you know if I encounter this problem. I think the clue is in the warning in the original post, "Will not work with some HID Ballasts" meaning some might be simply too noisy. Maybe a quenching diode across 87 and 86(gnd) might help and/or a capacitor?
 
techno said:
My mistake in the drawing, the autoswitch does not supply any feed for the HIDs.

Normal hallogen bulbs use just a filament and have no control circuitry. HID's use a ballast to step up the voltage (35kV) using inductors as well as transistors/capacitors etc.

I am thinking that after the lamp has arc'd at 35kV the circuit stabalizes and there is a collapse of this 'field' in the inductors which seems to be upsetting the autoswitch causing it to bounce the relay's energising coil.

Remember the autoswitch is activated by a grounded switching so any noise (seen as transient spikes) would cause unpredictable results...

Anyway, I currently have 2 autoswitches controlling 3 sets of lights and I have no problem (as I would expect). I will be upgrading one set to HID (like my headlight and highbeam) so I will let you know if I encounter this problem. I think the clue is in the warning in the original post, "Will not work with some HID Ballasts" meaning some might be simply too noisy. Maybe a diode across 87 and 86(gnd) might help and/or a capacitor?
Click to expand...

The grounded switch might well be the problem, I'd forgotten that was how the autoswitch triggered. A capacitor there might solve that, but in a canbus system, it might introduce some other "issues" The 1200 wiring diagram shows both sides of the indicator and cancel switches are connected to the ECU.
 
techno said:
Ah a 1200!!, there's the problem then. get an 1150 :)
Click to expand...

Had one, loved it, put HIDs and autoswitchs on. But decided the lighter 1200 was more suited to my short legs.
 
Well I'm pleased to see the debate this has started!

I called Mr Norman today to see what his thoughts were. I was told that they had not had any reports of any problems with HID's and it would "probably be OK",

I'm going to hold off fitting the Autoswitch a bit longer to see what else comes out of the debate as I'm going to be fairly pee'd off if I go to the trouble of getting the bike apart and joining into the loam only to find it plays up.


There must be somebody out there who has this set up so keep the thoughts coming :thumb
 
I e-mailed auto switch in the US a while back and they replied saying that tehy were aware of this problem with the 1200 and would be working on it. Unfortunately for me that was about 2 months ago and have heard nothing since. will e mail them again to see if there is any progress.

I got my low power to the autoswitch from the socket in the head stock (the same place i power my GPS from). the power supply to the relay comes via a fused battery connection. My HID fogs work great at the moment just using a 12v switch (superfluous but required) and the y turn off 1 minute after the ignition is switched off.

It would be nice to get the autoswitch fitted as I have 2 of them (a and b), for when i fit spots
 
I've just had an email from Autoswitch (2 weeks after I wrote to them :( ) and apparently they say it won't work at the moment but they hope to have a fix in a couple of months - which is what they told talonfs....:mmmm
 
Had a few people asking me about where I got that grey switch.

Click on this link - http://stores.ebay.com/PeakMoto-Online

And do a "Store Search" (search box under the "Peak Moto" heading) for the word "switch" (without the inverted commas).

That will bring you up a list of switches and it should be there somewhere.
 
Problems Vis-a-Vis Autoswitch & HID Lights

I have spent quite a while playing with Autoswitches & HID lights.
As yet, I have not found a solution to the problems, but I can detail them & what are definitely not the solutions.

First of all, I have used two Autoswitches to test the problems encountered, & 7 HID lights, of two different makes.

I intitially bought an Autoswitch to control 2 off PIAA driving lights.
The PIAA lights were extremely unsatisfactory, in that their output was not up to expectations, however, the Autoswitch worked satisfactorily for the first 2 months or so, & then began to switch off of it's own accord, in a random manner. Even though all connections were soldered, I suspected a bad connection. Arond the same time, the bike developed an intermittent "Miss". I did not suspect at the time that the two faults were related. Eventually the bike quit altogether, with the usual complaint, I.E. Fuel pump Solid State Relay Failure. On replacing the S.S.R, the Autoswitch started to perform correctly again.
It is now obvious (with hindsight) that the Autoswitch was picking up RFI (Electrical Noise) from the faulty S.S.R.
Time moves on, & I decided to replace the PIAAs with a set of Hella DE HID driving lights, an apparantly simple operation.
Not So. Every time main beam was selected, with the driving lights enabled, the autoswitch turned itself off again. I replaced autoswitch. Same result.
I then started to investigate properly.
Using the motorcycle battery as a power source, and leaving the autoswitch in place, I connected up a total of 7 HID lights to the battery, & disovered the following:
With the 3 Chinese made 33w HIDS, ( Fitted with fault cancelling capacitor), there were no problems whatsoever with the autoswitch.
With the 4 off Hella DE HIDS, 3 worked perfectly, & the fourth tripped the Autoswitch back to the off state as soon as it was powered up.
None of the HIDs were connected via the Autoswitch, just to the same battery.
I spent much time playing with the lights, & proved that 1 only of the Hella DEs generated sufficient RFI to consistently trip the Autoswitch.
It would appear that the problem is related to random HID units.
This is not a voltage drop or current inrush problem.
I fitted a diode & capacitor to the Red power wire of the Autoswitch, thus negating the possiblity of voltage drop on the power supply causing the problem. Problem continued unchanged.
There is no doubt that the problem is RFI being picked up by the inadequately designed Autoswitch.

(Probably via the "sense" connection to the cancel button.)

Investigations continue into a solution which retains the Autoswitch, but it seems unlikely that one will be found.

In the meantime, if anyone wants a properly drawn wiring diagram of how to connect up HID lights (Both Auxiliary & bike's own) I will PDF it & post on this site if requested. This involves Canbus fault cancelling capacitors, relays etc.

Regards Michael A. Mc Namee
 
Autoswitch Vis-A Vis HID problems.

As you will have seen from an earlier post, I encountered major problems with a combination of An Autoswitch & HID lights.

Further investigation shoed that it is not possible to resolve the problems with any form of diode, resistor or capacitor. The problem is Harmonics generated on startup by some HID Ballasts, & the autoswitch is, in AmerikunSpeak, "A can of worms".

Owning an R1200RT, an additional Handlebar switch is not a practical proposition, so I was faced with how to replicate an autoswitch function without using one of the abortions.

Durite make & sell a 12v Latching relay for use on car headlight main/dip beam. Part Number 0-728-02. Find on Ebay @ circa £16.00
(Vehicle Electrics Birmingham) This relay goes “On” & stays on when energised the first time. Even when powered down, it retains it’s status.
When energised a second time, It turns off, & retains it’s status even when powered down.
So, a pulse switches the relay on or off.
Now what is needed is a time delay to simulate what is done by the autoswitch.
12v time delays are like hen’s teeth. 24v are easy to get (Industry standard). I found the following: also on Ebay:
Variable Timer/pulsing relay board with optional 'start' switch input.
Selectable 12/24v dc supply input option. Circa £15.00 (Bernard Hazelden, Tunbridge Wells)
I now had the components, even though the timer board was open to the elements.
I tested the system, & after setting it at 2 second delay, potted it.
Wiring is very similar to Autoswitch.
Installed & tested.
Works in an identical manner to the Autoswitch, but without the shortcomings.
Thus: the system remembers it’s status after bike is switched off.
The circuit design is such that it would not matter if the 12v time delay were affected by the RFI/Harmonics generated by the HDI units, but it is completely unaffected.

Regards Michael
 
Apologies, but I am not yet a subscriber, so I cannot post attachments other than photos. my email address is [email protected].
Send me an email & I will send you back a PDFed drawing by return. This drawing Covers H7 HID bike lights & HID Driving lights. You just look at the sections you require.
I wolul be happy htat you posted the attachment after receiving it.
Regards Michael
 
Timer supplier

For anyone intereeseted in the timer. Bought on Ebay from
bjelectronics001
Under the heading :
Variable Timer/pulsing Relay board,+'start' i/p option

Buy it now £14.99.
He has multiple for sale.
Regards Michael
 
Timer supplier

For anyone interested in the timer. Bought on Ebay from
bjelectronics001
Under the heading :
Variable Timer/pulsing Relay board,+'start' i/p option

Buy it now £14.99.
He has multiple for sale.
Regards Michael
 
Thunder said:
Personally I use a Yamaha pattern waterproof switch I sourced from the US as a fog light switch and a PIAA switch for the 510 driving lights.

Switch.jpg


The PIAA one is simply stuck to the inside of the hand guards and as it is just a push switch is easy to activate with one finger.

To be honest the spots are triggered through the high beam so most times they are left on but I like the option of being able to run without them.
Click to expand...
hi thunder where did you get the switch any chance you can post a link?
 
Nippy Normans supply Touratech, Wunderlich, Desert Fox and many other makes of accessories.
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