Main dealer - named and shamed!

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cookie said:
*i'll put my hand up here & say i have *ahem* "had experience" of brake caliper bolts not being tightened. in both cases it took a lot less than 600 miles before it became bloody obvious ;)
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Wont the integral nature of the brakes hide the problem? And make it worse, as when the front is applied it puts on some back as well?

From the first photo and the lack of apparent damage to the hole that should be filed by a bolt, it looks IMHO that hte bolt was removed and not refitted. Now if the other owner wasn't a particularily mechanical person, wouldn't he have asked either the dealer / someone else to fit it? If the dealer fitted it ..... Nothing definite as I can't tell accurately how clean it is inside the hole :o

Also about the brake line, IMHO the surely should have noticed it when replacing the fluid as per the maintenance schedule? Or is that being too hopefull?
 
BTBR said:
The bolt was not loose or even hanging out, it was complelty missing!!! As a result the calliper had rotated upwards due to the stresses of rear wheel braking, which also resulted in the braided brake hose being slightly kinked and fretting against the swinging arm. In fact now that the "missing" bolt has been replaced the brake hose is now in a normal straight position. The fretting left on the swinging arm, would again support that the calliper has been in this position for some considerable time?
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From the annual service schedule-


(+) Visual inspection of the brake pipes, brake hoses and connections
(-) Visual inspection of the brake pipes, brake hoses and connections

Visually inspect for:

Leak
Traces of fluid
Damage
Deformation
Incorrect routing

Think it should have been seen given the position of the hose. The other thing i can't get is the wear on the pads. Mine were down to the backing at 5000 miles. I know that's not always the case, but it is common. Given that you would have thought that the dealers would have checked the pads, if only to secure some additional work.
 
I think the days of "Ear Mate, ears a new bolt & pads & we will call it evens." are over. In these times of litigation, anything the dealer does to meet you half way could be seen as a signature of guilt.......:nenau

The reality is, when I get my bike from a shop, "I" check it over. Same reason pilots check "their" Jumbos before lift off.....
 
My two pence worth,

regardless of who's at fault, BTBR has a responsibility for his own safety and check basic stuff on a bike are secure, tyres ok (inc. pressure), Oil in engine nothing looking like it's overly worn as the such like.

Now having said that all this does is enforce why I do my own servicing, I can take my time and do it properly and check more than what is on the service sheet, but I feel that a main dealer that has bikes in for servicing and doesn't check the security of various important bolts is being irresponsible, should the dealer pay out for this is harder to decide, as it can't be proven they where aware of the fault, but as a gesture of good faith I feel they could maybe do something.

for the record as a guide to what other manufacuteres do, when ever Harley or Buell bikes are in for any service the manual states that the torque of all bolts should be check.
 
alimey4u2 said:
Same reason pilots check "their" Jumbos before lift off.....
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Yep, there often to be seen on the taxiway at Heathrow witha torque wrench checking the wheel nuts :mmmm

However, what is in discussion here is something that any MOT test should (and would?) show up for less than £20 :nenau
 
here's one for u -
a bmw car owner/driver books his/her car in for service. when he/her picks the car up he/her just jumps in and drive off checking nothing.
why should we bikers feel the need to check everything before riding away and let us remember that a lot of modern riders do not know how to check for these things and why should they after all it a bleedy bmw not a jawa/cz/triumph[pre unit ect].
And if its used for road use only why would/should we need to check mr honsuzkwakyam rider would'nt.
it's very worrying that we feel the need to check peoples work after weve paid good money for servicing.mmmmmmmmm
 
It is an interesting thread this, apart from the personal insults of being called a twat, lets be honest was it really necessary and constructive?

Its stupid, childish comments like that that give the site a bad name, especially from a moderator. :nono

The way I see it is, yes prehaps I should have given the bike a good inspection before I rode it, yes prehaps the person selling it should have noticed that the bolt was missing, and yes, no one has been hurt or even injuried.

But, I took the fact that because the bike had only done 620 miles since its service/inspection then that was good enough for me. Mistake I agree.

It is also "fact" that those pads have been in that position due to the lack of the mounting bolt for a dam site longer than 620 miles.

Who fitted the hugger (actually the dealer did I understand) is of no real importance, the fact that the missing bolt and was not seen is my issue.

While I agree with the comment, I don't expect them to check ever nut and bolt, I would expect that all safety critical nuts and bolts to be checked, at least visually.

Yes I also agree that I have bought a second hand bike and you therefore accept any problems that you incounter.

It was also the dealers attitude when I spoke to them on the phone, even before seen the evidence he argued that "his" guys had not done it.

I would like to think that I have been fair and I have given them over a week to respond and they havent, so hence the reason why it is on here for all to see.

It was the complete denile by the dealer that has really pissed me off.

To be honest, if he would have even just said sorry "yes we should have picked it up but we didnt, sorry" then you can do no more.

A mistake is a mistake...simple, but it does not make it right though.

At the end of the day, its about customer care.
 
Shame you've had a poor start to your new bike...Ive found that BMW don't listen to people only wallets (there in denial..its a german thing).:rolleyes:
Your a clever guy why not do your own servicing that way YOU know its done right.Enjoy your new bike I'm sure it'll be very shiney and emaculate like your old one was.:beerjug:
 
ninja man said:
Shame you've had a poor start to your new bike...
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I hassen to add that it has NOT spoilt it one little bit, its a great bike and a credit to the first owner.

The only thing that has been spoilt is the relationship between myself and a BMW dealer 130 miles away, so no great lose.

Which if the quality of workmanship that I have seen to date is anything to go by, then I had a lucky escape.
 
For what its worth, I agree with a lot of the comments in this thread, not the derogatory one’s I hasten to add which do the individuals and the site no favors.

However I have experienced similar circumstances myself all be it with the front break calipers. I picked the bike up from the dealer after a front end rebuild. I must be honest I didn’t spend an hour or so going over the bike as I believe that is what the dealers mechanics are for. However on squeezing the front brake there was a clunking noise and a pulse thorough the lever. I immediately knew what this was due to experiencing it before on a race bikes. A quick inspection by myself reveled all the front break caliper bolts were loose. Returning to the dealer I was greeted by shock and they couldn’t apologize enough, it was immediately sorted and my next service was offered labor free.

I accept that it was blatantly obvious that this error was theirs, but there attitude was exemplary. They informed me that no matter what reason a bike was with them the last thing was always a safety and road check, and in this instance a mistake had been made. This level of service resolved the issue instantly and I am still happy to use them and recommend them to others. Ocean by the way.

I believe that anyone who hasn’t made a mistake hasn’t made anything at all. So you have to accept that sometimes these things happen. However I agree with BTBR it’s attitude that makes the difference. Vines point that there is no way anyone can prove when or how the bolt was lost is equally valid. However were I responsible for customer service at Vines I would probably of put it to BTBR that as a sign of good faith I would replace the bolt and pads FOC while accepting no liability for the initial issue. The result of this would be a cost of say £100 to me but gain much more value in good publicity, recommendations and word of mouth. After all this thread would be very different had this been the resolution.
 
KAS said:
For what its worth, I agree with a lot of the comments in this thread, not the derogatory one’s I hasten to add which do the individuals and the site no favors.

However I have experienced similar circumstances myself all be it with the front break calipers. I picked the bike up from the dealer after a front end rebuild. I must be honest I didn’t spend an hour or so going over the bike as I believe that is what the dealers mechanics are for. However on squeezing the front brake there was a clunking noise and a pulse thorough the lever. I immediately knew what this was due to experiencing it before on a race bikes. A quick inspection by myself reveled all the front break caliper bolts were loose. Returning to the dealer I was greeted by shock and they couldn’t apologize enough, it was immediately sorted and my next service was offered labor free.

I accept that it was blatantly obvious that this error was theirs, but there attitude was exemplary. They informed me that no matter what reason a bike was with them the last thing was always a safety and road check, and in this instance a mistake had been made. This level of service resolved the issue instantly and I am still happy to use them and recommend them to others. Ocean by the way.

I believe that anyone who hasn’t made a mistake hasn’t made anything at all. So you have to accept that sometimes these things happen. However I agree with BTBR it’s attitude that makes the difference. Vines point that there is no way anyone can prove when or how the bolt was lost is equally valid. However were I responsible for customer service at Vines I would probably of put it to BTBR that as a sign of good faith I would replace the bolt and pads FOC while accepting no liability for the initial issue. The result of this would be a cost of say £100 to me but gain much more value in good publicity, recommendations and word of mouth. After all this thread would be very different had this been the resolution.
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A good sensible reply, thanks. :thumb

Like I have already stated, I have given them more than ample time to respond and resolve the issue. But the fact is now, they have chosen just to ignore me has made it even worse.
 
Regardless of the service history of the bike, shouldn't the dealer have given it a good once over before letting Alan ride it away from the showroom?
 
BTBR,why do you say that "there is no fault or blame attached to the original owner" (post 1).
Looking at the picture of the blanking plate,it looks like it is machined or cut inaccurately in as much as it covers part of the casting that the bolt fits into.
Have you tried to fit an Allen bolt/washer into the hole?.Does it interfere with the plate.I know that if i had been fitting a plate in that position i would have filed it down to make sure it cleared the bolt bfore final assembly.
This observation in no way detracts from the fact that a professional mechanic worth his salt should have spotted the missing bolt.
Col.
 
If you'd stuck to the bici you wouldn't all this hassle :rolleyes:

Thinks of all the kms missed while you piddling about with this lark :D
 
Colban said:
Looking at the picture of the blanking plate,it looks like it is machined or cut inaccurately in as much as it covers part of the casting that the bolt fits into.
Have you tried to fit an Allen bolt/washer into the hole?.Does it interfere with the plate.I know that if i had been fitting a plate in that position i would have filed it down to make sure it cleared the bolt bfore final assembly.
This observation in no way detracts from the fact that a professional mechanic worth his salt should have spotted the missing bolt.
Col.
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It is the angle of the photo, the TT plate bolt can be fitted without the need to remove the bolt.

In fact I have proved this by fitting a new bolt, and nothing had to be removed or even loosened in order to do it.
 
I do see Cookies points being a devils advocate and not being able to tell when the bolt came loose for sure.

But if the original owner is to be believed and i can't see why not.... Vines is then the only people to have worked on the bike.

Why should a guy who doesn't work on his own bike suddenly take an urge to remove a calliper bolt and then put it back without fully tightening it :nenau

The dealership are meant to check all the bolts before the bike first leaves them when sold new.... if they have/had done this why should a calliper bolt ever work loose?

If the pads were never changed what need would there have been to remove or loosen the bolt :nenau

It would appear by Vines reply that they were searching for any other excuse rather than poor workmanship to blame the lost bolt on.

Anyone can make mistakes but it shows what the people are really like when it comes to dealing with those mistakes.

Nobody was hurt luckily enough... so i can't see how the dealership could not have put their hands up and said it may have been a mistake by us.... let us put it right free of charge... the very worst they could have been out was brake pads, a bolt,a brake hose and maybe a rear disc.

They also should have offered a free check over the bike to ensure something else was not overlooked...fork pinch bolts maybe?

Yes all this would have cost them some money but not half as much as their reputation being tarnished will cost them in the future.
It will always be in the back of peoples minds... what did they miss on my service?

Would you want to go to a place that potentially lets bikes leave in an unfit state after a service:nenau

Threads like this are good for seeing who's good or bad when choosing a dealer.
People really deserve good service when they pay good money for it.

If that Level of service is not there then people should show there displeasure with their wallets.

It's time dealers stopped treating customers like they are doing them the favour.

The least this thread will do is give dealers a kick up the butt to treat customers better.

I also think people should post when a dealer has went out of there way to help them. Not enough dealer good deeds are posted.... maybe it says something about dealers:D
 
I also think people should post when a dealer has went out of there way to help them. Not enough dealer good deeds are posted.... maybe it says something about dealers.:D
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I've been watching this thread with interest.
I had an issue with a dealer last February. Said dealer had just carried out a 12 k service on my bike. Another GSer pointed out to me that both front and back brake pads should have been changed or at the very least I should have been notified that they were both barely road legal.
I contacted the dealer, they asked me to bring the bike in for them to have a look at. They then supplied and fitted pads at no cost to me.
They were polite, courteous and professional at all times.
They listened to their customer. They examined the bike. They took the appropriate course of action with the result that the issue was resolved to the customers satisfaction. :thumb

Sometimes its difficult to tell how good a company really is until you have a problem with them. That’s when the cream rises to the surface.
 
Nippy Normans supply Touratech, Wunderlich, Desert Fox and many other makes of accessories.
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