Metal flakes in the final drive oil

[Comfy Old Boots]

Found a lot of metal flakes whilst changing the final drive oil. The oil also had a lot of suspended particles in it.

Previous owner changed the big bearing two years ago but who knows if he did it properly.

I'm going to order a seal and a big bearing just in case but I can't check the bearings without a new seal. Or can I?

Am I kidding myself thinking there is a possibility the PO didn't clean out the bevel box when he changed the bearing? If I check the oil in a day or two and its clear, can I be sure the bevel box is ok?

On the positive, I adjusted the paralever bearings and removed the final drive. No leaks in the final drive. No visible leaks from the gearbox end either. Final drive feels a little smoother after adjusting the paralever bearings.

If I'm buying the big bearing and seals, which is the other bearing that I need to check and possibly order at the same time? I can send them back to motorworks if I don't use them I think...

I know this has all been covered before but often the OP fixes the problem and does not update the thread leaving people like me none the wiser.

Also, I had trouble refitting the bevel box but remembered steptoes trick of putting two of the wheel bolts in to rotate the bevel box shaft to align with the drive shaft. Worked a treat.

Thanks for any help or suggestions you can offer.

 

[Comfy Old Boots]

Also, I've got access to an oven, a freezer, a rubber hammer and some bearing pullers.


Sent by SOB

 

[DrFarkoff]

You have a bad habit of rushing in But that is just who you are Owen

Right first things first Get your self a litre or so of paraffin

Take off rear caliper and wheel

If you have the "through the FD" speed sensor then disconnect it and carefully coil the cable with NO kinks or sharp turns and lightly secure with a cable tie . before you remove the sensor clean any road / brake debris from the wheels side of the FD and especially the end of it. AND Don't lose the shims! I usually refit them with the screw at the hole so there's no guessing.

Okay otherwise you should have access to the 7mm hex socket bolts

So you have cleaned the faces down a wire brush and a cup full of your paraffin and wash the wheel side down and remove any crud from around the seal and the bolt heads and from around where the black and the silver meet

To assist in removing the allen bolts Tap each one in turn sharply but firm with a flat head hammer Not the pein side, then remove the Allen bolts and each one has a washer

Now you want to carefully tap the caliper mount and hopefully the wheel side of the drive will move out and you can work it away from the silver part

If he did change the bearing then it should be clean in the joint and come apart easy

So once apart just flush the drive well with the paraffin I use a pastry brush to get in and clear them out a syringe is also good

Here's a couple of threads in the last year where I found FD problems

http://www.ukgser.com/forums/showth...-you-quot-bother-quot-to-check-your-gear-oils

Also pay careful attention to this one is case you have the pivot bearing moved

http://www.ukgser.com/forums/showthread.php/359910-Anyone-spot-the-problem-here

IN reality you should be able to see any bad issues in there like that cut out But You can also have a bloody good listen and feel

and here's probably the worst one I have Ever heard in my puff !

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/7ggwkMCfsJ4" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

 

[DrFarkoff]

Heres what he had in his FD

How bad were your sparkles ??

 

[Comfy Old Boots]

I agree it's a bad habit but I have put five hundred miles on it in the last nine days. After nearly 300 miles yesterday, I decided it was time to take a look.

Thanks for the linkys. I'll take a look at theft Al drive oil later in the week. Much appreciated. I owe you a crate of beer at this point.

Ps I think I must be the polar opposite of Mike rocks.

 

[Comfy Old Boots]

Looks very like mine but more silver colour. With bigger chunks. Also, it was mixed in with the oil. Very fine particles, I was reminded of ted Simon describing a leak in one of his panniers that ground the aluminium film canisters into the oil to make a paste!

Biggest bits were the size if the honeycomb bits in a golden crisp.

 

[Da1sycat]

Thank God for skilled hands otherwise I'd have been fooked over my FD problems. Hats off to those who can manage this themselves. If you're like me (mechanical novice) then leave it in good hands, ie The Doc!

 

[Comfy Old Boots]

Hi Da1sycat, believe it or not I went to my local mechanic this morning to find he was on winter hours and closed Monday's. At that point I decided to take a look. However, The klunk from the clutch with clutch disengaged whilst hot, I'm not going near. I agree the doc is the man for this job. He's also incredibly generous with his time.

 

[DrFarkoff]

Looks very like mine but more silver colour. With bigger chunks

Sounds like Pinion bearing has moved in yours Owen

Have a look at this slideshow you can see the part cut out and the oil came out more as you describe with larger "flakes" of alloy in it

a bit like a metalflake paint job

<iframe width="480" height="360" src="http://s663.photobucket.com/user/Jaythro55/embed/slideshow/BMW%20bike%20Stuff/Daisycat%20GSA"></iframe>

 

[Comfy Old Boots]

Yes but with chunky bits! I'm only getting to the pinion thread now.

Edit, I've started reading the pinion thread. Eh, I've stopped for a bit. This looks rare, complicated and best read with a bottle of scraggy bag from Donegal...

 

[Comfy Old Boots]

Eh, you mentioned power washing. Bike was very clean. I found this earlier....


Now:

Here's a photo of bevel box:

It's a Daily rider so it's back together ready for the morning. Eh, just wondering and thinking out loud but could my thunk thunk be the clutch whacking the crap out of my final drive? Ah shite. Where's that second scraggy?

 

[DrFarkoff]

what did it sound like when it was out ??? You can put 2 bolts in two holes and rotate it to listen

Have you a master spline type driveshaft Owen? if not how did you realign the two parts???

You don;t need to take it off the bike to check whats inside

Leaving it attached allows you to flush it and all the keek goes out the drain hole

Another Reason NOT To sell the R850 R but keep it as a backup

 

[Comfy Old Boots]

Totally with ya there on Barbara.

When it was out, there was Grey grease ( not a lot but moist) on the splines. Black grease on the pivot bearings. I turned it over and there was a dull grinding feel, not smooth like a pair of roller scates but did feel like it was rubbing. No noise to speak of but I don't really know for sure. No harsh grinding but certainly not smooth as I would expect. But more resistance than I would expect from precision engineering!

I am hesitant to admit that I don't know the difference between the two types of driveshaft. But I took it off to adjust the paralever bearings. I had play there. I also wanted to see if I could see a leak anywhere that might help me...so pulled off the final drive.

I realigned the parts by rotating the box by hand using two tyre bolts. Just rotated it until it slotted in. Did I do it incorrectly?

I was under the impression that the bevel box needed to be removed and the two parts separated by supporting them on two bits of wood and gently whacking with a rubber hammer? Leaving it on is a much better way. Way easier.

 

[DrFarkoff]

Eh, you mentioned power washing.

Nope Not Me Ever! A hot sponge and carwashing type "wash and wax" in hot water and a good hose down after

That pin looks about standard for about half worn pads or more

Driveshaft:- There was change where they made one spline on the shaft twice as wide as all the other ones (and a matching wider groove in the female part so the shaft would only go back together in one orientation and hence Master Spline)

If you have more vibration than you had before you stripped it You "may" have the two halves out of alignment ....

 

[Comfy Old Boots]

Less vibration. Anyway, I've all the details now. Thanks all. I'll pull it apart on wed night. Find out for definite.

 

[Comfy Old Boots]

In lieu of the fact that my bevel box might be compromised, would the relevant reconditioned bevel box from motorworks be a plug and ride option?

 

[Comfy Old Boots]

On a serious note, I'll take the 850 until this is sorted out. The last thing I want is for the 1150's rear wheel to lock up and throw me under a bus. I'm quite disappointed. Anyway, that's it until tomorrow night.

 

[Comfy Old Boots]

and here's probably the worst one I have Ever heard in my puff !

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/7ggwkMCfsJ4" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

I only just saw this. Tapatalk often does not display videos for some reason. Mine sounds similar but does not rotate that freely

 

[Packer]

My original FD big bearing died at 26,000 miles and I replace it myself. My installation lasted 35,000 miles. It was replaced again but didn't last long so I bit the bullet and sent the entire FD assembly to Scriminger Engineering with instructions to do whatever was required. A couple of hundred pounds later it was good to go. Sold the bike with 96,000 miles and the FD was still great.

If the DrF has the kit to deal with the input shaft which is very high torque and needs special tools then just hand it over for a complete refurb.

It's worth the money for peace of mind.

 

[DrFarkoff]

I only just saw this. Tapatalk often does not display videos for some reason. Mine sounds similar but does not rotate that freely

Quite likely Big bearing fucked then!

BUT split it and see what is its like away from the rest of the drive...

If it moves freely then likley you have a problem up front probably the front or input bearing

Also if ordering spares? order the ABS sensor o rings and the BIG o ring that goes around the edge of the FD and get yourself a tub of red rubber grease anything rubber get a slather of grease as its rebuilt that will help prevent water / dirt / salt ingress and consequentially corrosion if you need to split it again in the future