Mine just broke down...

[Bigtrucknuts]

That's perhaps hope beyond reason.
But there is a fella on this forum that's just been lent a bike because of a recall on his RT. So maybe a lone bike is in order. And I don't mean an F800, there in a word, shite.

 

[Captain Beaky]

In Dick Lovetts defence, they did offer me a loan bike straight away if I needed it for transport.

I'm not too bothered - I am off to Derby with work this week, so don't need it for a couple of days - it would be sitting unused in the shed - also this will give me the kick I need to drag the XR250 out of the shed, MoT'd and get it back on the road!

But if it's going to be weeks, instead of days, then i will be taking them up on a loaner with this fine weather..

 

[Fanum]

OMG.

Rlly?

O Noes!!!!

 

[blues n twos]

Hope it gets sorted ok. Does sound quite nasty

Can't believe you called BMW assist for that though!!

They only recover broken pannier locks

ATB

Jon

 

[Captain Beaky]

Actually didn't end up using BMW assist for recovery to my house - that took way too long. I used my auto aid membership, which took half the time.

Dick Lovatt have found the fault. Camchain has snapped and fallen into the gearbox.
I've not heared of a camchain snapping at such a low mileage - most definitely what is described as infant mortality amongst us reliability engineers, and is pretty darn rare.

What concerns me more is the severity of the failure mode ( locked back wheel). It is foreseeable that a camchain snap will lock the transmission, so there should be a "camchain catcher" in there to make sure that the severe failure mode is prevented.

I will be investigating this more.

They have ordered a new engine, and want to fix it, I have said that I'm not too happy about having a second hand brand new bike. Dick Lovatt have said that I need to talk to customer services, as they are only allowed to do what BMW head office say.

I tried to discuss with BMW customer services, but got the brush off - they said that my contract was with the dealer and not BMW, so I need to discuss this with Dick Lovatt....

So before I spend any more of my life in ping pong between the two, i am writing a letter direct to the managing director of BMW head office.

I'll let you know how I get along.

 

[Nutty]

Actually didn't end up using BMW assist for recovery to my house - that took way too long. I used my auto aid membership, which took half the time.

Dick Lovatt have found the fault. Camchain has snapped and fallen into the gearbox.
I've not heared of a camchain snapping at such a low mileage - most definitely what is described as infant mortality amongst us reliability engineers, and is pretty darn rare.

What concerns me more is the severity of the failure mode ( locked back wheel). It is foreseeable that a camchain snap will lock the transmission, so there should be a "camchain catcher" in there to make sure that the severe failure mode is prevented.

I will be investigating this more.

They have ordered a new engine, and want to fix it, I have said that I'm not too happy about having a second hand brand new bike. Dick Lovatt have said that I need to talk to customer services, as they are only allowed to do what BMW head office say.

I tried to discuss with BMW customer services, but got the brush off - they said that my contract was with the dealer and not BMW, so I need to discuss this with Dick Lovatt....

So before I spend any more of my life in ping pong between the two, i am writing a letter direct to the managing director of BMW head office.

I'll let you know how I get along.

Your dealer, if they're any good, should offer to negotiate with BMW on your behalf. When mine was replaced, I left all the negotiating to them, and a deal was done.

 

[Captain Beaky]

Good point.

I did ask Dick Lovatt for the contact that I could discuss this with in BMW. They are following it up with BMW - I just wanted to chivvy the process along a bit.

I just don't expect to be stonewalled by BMW. I specifically asked to talk to the people empowered to deal with it in head office, and got the legalese brush off.

A sure way to annoy a customer!
They most certainly have my attention now.

Customer services should have said something like -
" I am sorry that you have had a problem with your BMW, but we cannot deal with the specifics of your case here in this department - we are not empowered to do so, and cannot comment on your specific case. The company procedure is that issues like this are handled directly with your dealer, who are better equipped to handle any queries and issues, and they communicate direct with head office. We ask you to be patient while we handle your complaint through the normal company procedure path, and we anticipate that we will be able to respond to your concerns fully through this process. If you do not get full satisfaction from your dealer, then please instruct your dealer to ask for head office to make contact with you directly"

But no, I got the " your legal contract is with the dealer, so go and talk to them" brush off.

Not very good customer service - quite often, it is not what you say, but how you say it. BMW's immediate legalese response can only lead to customer annoyance and immediate escalation ( which is what I'll be doing ).

A good example of great customer service is Landrover. They have the worst reliability of almost all car makers.
But the which survey shows them as having the highest satisfaction rating amongst cars less than three years old, and the lowest amongst cars over three years old.
A good example of how great customer service can overcome a poor product.

 

[Norfolk Tiger]

Maybe I've missed it but just out of curiosity how many miles had the bike done?

 

[Captain Beaky]

3,500.

It was coming up to its first year service.

 

[zoltan]

Your dealer, if they're any good, should offer to negotiate with BMW on your behalf. When mine was replaced, I left all the negotiating to them, and a deal was done.

^^^What he said , I am on my 3rd GS and all communication was with the dealer. No need to involve BMWCS. They did all the leg work and even negotiate the money side as well.

 

[fuddy]

My mate had a engine trouble on his k1600. The BMW dealer wanted to put a new engine in it, but he was not happy about it and got a new bike out of them.

 

[Mad_Accountant]

It's probably just a broken pannier lock.

Or a pannier scratch

 

[Packer]

This issue makes me even more happy that I didn't buy a WC. The fact that the transmission can be locked up by a failed cam chain seems to be very poor design and adds to the risk of a serious accident resulting from mechanical failure. As stated by the OP if that had happened at >60mph cranked over on a corner you are well and truly stuffed and will be going down the road on your backside into whatever is coming the other way or fixed road furniture.

Do most modern bikes have the transmission integrated into the engine crankcase and equally vulnerable to such a failure?

 

[JohnnyBoxer]

This issue makes me even more happy that I didn't buy a WC. The fact that the transmission can be locked up by a failed cam chain seems to be very poor design and adds to the risk of a serious accident resulting from mechanical failure. As stated by the OP if that had happened at >60mph cranked over on a corner you are well and truly stuffed and will be going down the road on your backside into whatever is coming the other way or fixed road furniture.

Do most modern bikes have the transmission integrated into the engine crankcase and equally vulnerable to such a failure?

How is the S10 shaft devised, would that do the same...............hope not

 

[Packer]

How is the S10 shaft devised, would that do the same...............hope not

Not sure that we aren't at cross purposes here JB. The WC must have the gearbox in the same cavity as some part of the cam chain routing so chain failure dumped the chain in the gearbox. Any previous BM boxers of course had completely separate engine and gearbox assemblies bolted together so this couldn't happen. It crossed my mind that other modern designs may be like the WC, (in light of the issues with these machines I think I'll revert to calling them boggers ) so I'll go hunting for a schematic on the S10 engine

 

[JohnnyBoxer]

Not sure that we aren't at cross purposes here JB. The WC must have the gearbox in the same cavity as some part of the cam chain routing so chain failure dumped the chain in the gearbox. Any previous BM boxers of course had completely separate engine and gearbox assemblies bolted together so this couldn't happen. It crossed my mind that other modern designs may be like the WC, (in light of the issues with these machines I think I'll revert to calling them boggers ) so I'll go hunting for a schematic on the S10 engine

Those S10's do look good, just wondered if the gearbox/engine were separate?

 

[Captain Beaky]

Yeah, it is a different design to previous bikes that had a completely seperate gearbox.

 

[Captain Beaky]

This issue makes me even more happy that I didn't buy a WC. The fact that the transmission can be locked up by a failed cam chain seems to be very poor design and adds to the risk of a serious accident resulting from mechanical failure. As stated by the OP if that had happened at >60mph cranked over on a corner you are well and truly stuffed and will be going down the road on your backside into whatever is coming the other way or fixed road furniture.

Do most modern bikes have the transmission integrated into the engine crankcase and equally vulnerable to such a failure?

Is this any better than a servo brake system that cops out and leaves you with unassisted brakes?

I agree that it's an unfortunate and unusual failure, but wether or not you are better off with the old bike or new is a separate question

On the road, the new bike is better than the old bike by a big margin - lighter, more powerful, better handling, so for me, it was no option.

 

[Engineer]

What a bunch of girly worriers! there are numerous things that can go wrong in a motorcycle engine to cause it to lock up - if you are really worried about this stuff then you really shouldn't be riding one. Comparisons with the Yamaha S10 are just plain silly, the GS WC has sold in huge numbers whereas Yamaha have sold about three S10s so if they do have problems it is going to take years for them to come to the fore, by which time everyone will have moved on to newer and better bikes.

 

[JohnnyBoxer]

What a bunch of girly worriers! there are numerous things that can go wrong in a motorcycle engine to cause it to lock up - if you are really worried about this stuff then you really shouldn't be riding one. Comparisons with the Yamaha S10 are just plain silly, the GS WC has sold in huge numbers whereas Yamaha have sold about three S10s so if they do have problems it is going to take years for them to come to the fore, by which time everyone will have moved on to newer and better bikes.

It was noticeable that there were more BMW K75C's, on the Tour de France this weekend, than newer BMW's of any sort

Just sayin'......................

Newer and revolutionary design isn't always better in the longterm (cue....................Servo ABS, as just one example)