Moderators, you should hang your heads in shame.

[MikeP]

So basically:

Civil sells panniers cheap to Thunder on the understanding it will result in sales and it does not.

Thunder sells panniers to AlexT who expects warranty on 2nd hand panniers.

Hmm. My take on it is this:

Civil sells panniers "cheap" (or at a loss) to Thunder on the understanding that it will result in sales and it does not.

Thunder sells bike with panniers attached to AlexT.

Powdercoat bubbles but because the deal with Thunder didn't result in sales, Civil won't repair the defect and AlexT can swivel.

Oh and Tom gets decisive or articulate (new username perhaps?).

 

[Mr K]

Hmm. My take on it is this:

Civil sells panniers "cheap" (or at a loss) to Thunder on the understanding that it will result in sales and it does not.

Thunder sells bike with panniers attached to AlexT.

Powdercoat bubbles but because the deal with Thunder didn't result in sales, Civil won't repair the defect and AlexT can swivel.

Oh and Tom gets decisive or articulate (new username perhaps?).

I'd go along with that.

 

[(RIP) Proff]

I see it as [ being as I'm Mr Dumb from Devon] a pikey shyster intent on ripping off someone over a quality issue on his panniers...

I wonder if the Irish govt are aware of his sideline luggage making malarkey @ £650 a set over the past few years
If they perused this site alone they could estimate how many sets the pikey has made


PS... I bet EVERY DVD or CD that Civil orders from now on will be checked by Revenuers before delivery

 

[Mr K]

I see it as [ being as I'm Mr Dumb from Devon] a pikey shyster intent on ripping off someone over a quality issue on his panniers...

I wonder if the Irish govt are aware of his sideline luggage making malarkey @ £650 a set over the past few years
If they perused this site alone they could estimate how many sets the pikey has made


PS... I bet EVERY DVD or CD that Civil orders from now on will be checked by Revenuers before delivery

Sorry Proff I can't agree: Yes warranty transfer is expected on cars and bikes (if you fill the forms in and send them off) but not on accessories sold at a discount, come by 2nd hand.

 

[Trippy]

No Comment

....

 

[Deleted account W]

Linky

 

[Decster]

Linky

I believe Mr McGonagle lives on the euro (AKA Free State, but costs a lot more) side of the border

 

[BAKERMAN]

Bubbled paint big deal

Get a life

 

[D6]

if its plastic coated, has a firm done it? surely civil would get a refund from that firm?if i got em done at our local coaters and that happened, theyed do em again or money back,
then again our coaters do it properly

 

[Trippy]

Linky

Good advice for anyone buying secondhand goods here or anywhere else ...

Firstly, remember that the statutory entitlement of quality and fitness for purpose only applies when buying from someone who is ‘acting in the course of a business’ i.e a second-hand car dealer. You do not have any legal recourse as regards quality where you are buying through an individual who is selling an item as a one-off private sale (although they must have legal title and it must be as described in the advert). Secondly, when buying second hand, there is a general recognition in law that the reduced price you pay reflects the risk in taking ownership of something with a greater likelihood of developing faults or breaking down completely. You pay less because it is recognised you will have to pay the repair costs yourself rather than relying on the manufacturer’s warranty.

 

[judge]

I think that Judge was acting in an over excitable way using terms like "pikey". Again cheapened his point, and added a dimension that was uncalled for.

All of course IMHO

I think you're right, it probably did but I wasn't seeking approval for what I wrote and I should have said something long ago and then I might have been a bit less emotional about it - still Civil has given more than as good as he got and it sounds from it that neither of us know each other at all and its all about perceptions - neither perception liked by the other - nothing else to say really

Anti-Irish Well that's a first in my life

 

[Arsey]

I've only just seen this and the other thread.

But it does seem that some people make life difficult for themselves.

If I was a vendor of a supposedly high class and admittedly expensive product,I'd make sure I provided a good service.

If said product is defective within a year,then I would have thought that the manufacturer/vendor would sort out said defect to uphold the reputation of the product,regardless of any backhand deals and used notes flying over the Irish Sea in DVD cases.

I don't know anybody involved,but sadly I think Civil will lose sales over this as he doesn't seem very straight forward.

Of course the whole episode hasn't been helped by all the nasty shit stirring and vitriol.

 

[MasterDabber]

I don't know anybody involved,but sadly I think Civil will lose sales over this as he doesn't seem very straight forward.

I've got to agree with the above comment. Whatever the rights and wrongs the brand is damaged and that can be costly.

 

[Greg Masters]

Of course the whole episode hasn't been helped by all the nasty shit stirring and vitriol.

+1

Some of you guys appear to relish pouring fuel onto a few smouldering embers. It doesn't do much for dispute resolution.

Greg

 

[Mr K]

I've only just seen this and the other thread.

But it does seem that some people make life difficult for themselves.

If I was a vendor of a supposedly high class and admittedly expensive product,I'd make sure I provided a good service.

If said product is defective within a year,then I would have thought that the manufacturer/vendor would sort out said defect to uphold the reputation of the product,regardless of any backhand deals and used notes flying over the Irish Sea in DVD cases.

I don't know anybody involved,but sadly I think Civil will lose sales over this as he doesn't seem very straight forward.

Of course the whole episode hasn't been helped by all the nasty shit stirring and vitriol.

They're not expensive though and that has a bearing on the matter:

No one would argue that the figure of £650 for a set of panniers as has been bandied about is not insignificant, but I seem to recall that a pair of Touratech Zegas (uncoated) and mounts, for my 1200 was 1100 Euro at the factory in Germany... 3 years ago.

I'm pretty sure Metal Mule are similarly priced.

Maybe the unusual payment method benefits buyer as well as seller?

....and to try and claim warranty on panniers that were purchase with a bike, privately and 2nd hand...

 

[David Nimrod]

They're not expensive though...

Just to put this in perspective...

A brand new set of powder coated Ard Cases + rear trays etc. for fuel cans + a set of Holan pannier racks + most of an afternoon fitting them = £460.

P.S. - they're brilliant

 

[Arsey]

....and to try and claim warranty on panniers that were purchase with a bike, privately and 2nd hand...

Chris,

Depends on how you look at it.

If I bought a set of 2nd hand TT panniers that were faulty,I wouldn't even bother trying to sort it.

But I would hope that if I bought a 2nd hand set that had been made by one of the guys on here that claims they are the best,and they had a manufacturing fault in less than 12 months,then that person would be willing to fix the fault for a nominal fee,or ideally gratis if he is so proud of his product.

Surely it's not the current owners fault if the panniers were sold cheaply to the previous owner through some convoluted deal.

IF,and I mean IF there is a manufacturing defect,then I would have hoped said manufacturer/vendor wouldn't quibble about rectifying such a defect,as reputation is built on such morals and open-ness.

Every month some newbie asks which are the best panniers,and we get the usual 'don't touch BMW/TT ones-they're crap.You need Verns/Caja Sahel/Hepco etc etc'.


Not so sure anymore.

 

[ianboydsnr]

Chris,

Depends on how you look at it.

If I bought a set of 2nd hand TT panniers that were faulty,I wouldn't even bother trying to sort it.

But I would hope that if I bought a 2nd hand set that had been made by one of the guys on here that claims they are the best,and they had a manufacturing fault in less than 12 months,then that person would be willing to fix the fault for a nominal fee,or ideally gratis if he is so proud of his product.

Surely it's not the current owners fault if the panniers were sold cheaply to the previous owner through some convoluted deal.

IF,and I mean IF there is a manufacturing defect,then I would have hoped said manufacturer/vendor wouldn't quibble about rectifying such a defect,as reputation is built on such morals and open-ness.

Every month some newbie asks which are the best panniers,and we get the usual 'don't touch BMW/TT ones-they're crap.You need Verns/Caja Sahel/Hepco etc etc'.


Not so sure anymore.

I agree, perception of being a top quality product, is worth much more than your pride Civil, money aside you have to stand buy your product, otherwise why expect others to stand buy them, its not about money, its about you and your products, you should be venting your anger at the powder coaters, they are the ones who have let your product down

 

[BAKERMAN]

I think these panniers are a thing of beauty.

 

[roddy]

right first off I don't know any of the partys involved in this but the way I see it is this

Thunder and Civil did a deal for a set of panniers that Civil would hopefully lead to more sales, not an unreasonable deal in my view, but the caveat being if less than 3 sets of panniers where sold then Thunder owed monies to Civil. this situation has no bearing on the situation between Civil and AndyT and is upto Thunder and Civil to sort out

Thunder then sold bike to AndyT including the panniers, which then developed a fault in the powder coating, so is the expectation of AndyT unrealistic in expecting a warrenty on these 2nd hand products, I have to say yes, he maybe disappointed with the product but to expect Civil to repair the fault under some implied warrenty is a little unfair. However I also think Civil has been a wee bit short sighted in this misadventure and seems to have made his deal with Thunder cause some clouding around the issue with AndyT.

Also the original selling thread was hijacked big time for some apparent reason

Regading the MOD's situation in all this is quite simple as soon as he became aware of it he closed the thread, MOD's are human after all and have a life out with this site, so fault on the MOD's as far as I'm concerned

Having said all the above, I had a look at the Caja Sahel website and if I was in the market for some panniers I think I could buy with confidence based upon the site which has a very professional feel to it.

just my 2p worth, I also feel ironically that this thread should be closed to stop any more Civil bashing