more sump spacer "Q"

Valker

Valker

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I am thinking of fitting a sump spacer to my bike ( R100 GS-PD) having read a few things about it am a little confused, some say that you need to replace the std dipstick with a longer one, isn't this defeating the object of fitting the sump ring so that you have more oil. Fitting a longer DP would result in less oil !!

Also read that the engine runs hotter because it take longer for the oil cooler to cool the extra oil !!

Any feed back would be appreciated:thumb:thumb
 
Always baffled me as well ( doesn't take much )...if you compare a standard RT ( lower sump ) dipstick with a GS dipstick then the H & L markings are lower on the RT ( meaning to me you keep virtually the same amount of oil in each engine. The purpose of the deeper sump ( easier to twat on a rock ) on a GS is to use more oil hence keeping it cooler.....so I suppose using the original dipstick is the correct way to go even with a deeper sump !!

Then again, I have be carressing the scotch tonight :ChrisKelly
 
Kenny said:
Always baffled me as well ( doesn't take much )...if you compare a standard RT ( lower sump ) dipstick with a GS dipstick then the H & L markings are lower on the RT ( meaning to me you keep virtually the same amount of oil in each engine. The purpose of the deeper sump ( easier to twat on a rock ) on a GS is to use more oil hence keeping it cooler.....so I suppose using the original dipstick is the correct way to go even with a deeper sump !!

Then again, I have be carressing the scotch tonight :ChrisKelly
Click to expand...

For a piss head you are thinking straight, extra liter of oi so use same [original ] dipstickl, I used a spacer for years and had no problems at all even stretching oil changes to 4/5000 miles instead of my usual 3000 miles...

But On a g/s GS you need a fecking strong bashplate cos it hangs down a bit :(
 
Why bother fitting a sump extender onto a bike with an oil cooler :confused:

Use the same dipstick after fitting mine, and as I don't have an oil cooler I think it's a worthwhile addition.
 
Try and google "crankcase pumping losses"...

I've got a spacer ring that I have never got round to fitting. The plan was to run the bike so that oil volume was increased slightly and pumping losses reduced slightly.

Just my 2p...

Sean
 
I have been thinking about the extender - the GS has the smallest sump fitter to airheads, yet it is most likely to be crawling along in low gear / slow speed/ deep sand/ etc. The bottom is flat too , without the fins on some of the other sumps.

I was out for a cool down run the other night - it was still 41C at 6 pm when I got home from work. I dont have air conditioning so decided to get the wind chill factor up a bit.

I have a oil temp dip stick , and it wasnt long before it had spun round to 120 C , just at the start of the red zone. It didnt go any further but I wasnt pushing it hard either.

Two up with a load of gear and it could be a real problem.

I have Mobil 1 full synth in the sump so I wasnt too concerned, but it might be a problem with a lesser oil.

Just as an experiment I whipped off the stupid little sump guard , and this reduced the oil temp by 5C immediately. Removing the front cover reduced it another five .

However, neither is a long term solution, and the extender crossed my mind.

I had hoped that someone with a temp gauge or oil pressure gauge had fitted one and could quote actual figures - oil doesnt flow like water and I am not certain that all or any of the extra oil will in fact circulate.
 
Beemerboff said:
I had hoped that someone with a temp gauge or oil pressure gauge had fitted one and could quote actual figures - oil doesnt flow like water and I am not certain that all or any of the extra oil will in fact circulate.
Click to expand...

I may be wrong, but I thought the pump pickup had to be extended as well - so that the pump sucks oil from near the bottom of the sump.

That should ensure that all the oil gets used, as well as providing extra range if you should start losing oil.

Others will no doubt provide chapter & verse :thumb2.

Bob.
 
Beemerboff said:
I have been thinking about the extender - the GS has the smallest sump fitter to airheads, yet it is most likely to be crawling along in low gear / slow speed/ deep sand/ etc. The bottom is flat too , without the fins on some of the other sumps.

I was out for a cool down run the other night - it was still 41C at 6 pm when I got home from work. I dont have air conditioning so decided to get the wind chill factor up a bit.

I have a oil temp dip stick , and it wasnt long before it had spun round to 120 C , just at the start of the red zone. It didnt go any further but I wasnt pushing it hard either.

Two up with a load of gear and it could be a real problem.

I have Mobil 1 full synth in the sump so I wasnt too concerned, but it might be a problem with a lesser oil.

Just as an experiment I whipped off the stupid little sump guard , and this reduced the oil temp by 5C immediately. Removing the front cover reduced it another five .

However, neither is a long term solution, and the extender crossed my mind.

I had hoped that someone with a temp gauge or oil pressure gauge had fitted one and could quote actual figures - oil doesnt flow like water and I am not certain that all or any of the extra oil will in fact circulate.
Click to expand...

Soooo,, Anyone know ! do you keep the STD dip sick, or go for the longer 1...... Any ideas on the oil cooler question, will the engine over heat because the STD oil cooler can not cope which the extra oil ???:thumb:thumb
 
Valker said:
do you keep the STD dip sick, or go for the longer 1...... Any ideas on the oil cooler question, will the engine over heat because the STD oil cooler can not cope which the extra oil ???:thumb:thumb
Click to expand...

Fitting a longer dipstick is OK as long as the marks are the SAME distance from the TOP of the dipstick. Anyone that thinks otherwise, IS a dipstick:D

Valker said:
Also read that the engine runs hotter because it take longer for the oil cooler to cool the extra oil !!
Click to expand...

Sounds like the sort of thing my old wife would say... She IS from Birmingham:augie
If anything, the engine will run cold for longer as there is no thermostat in the standard setup so it just pumps oil round, regardless. Therefore you should fit a thermostat to the cooler for more bucks:(

Given that more oil would generally lower the temp, the cooler can only enhance or maintain that... No?

John
 
Just checked on Antons excellent site and found that the flat bottomed sump started in 91 - I have a 93 GS.

It also shows that the dipstick has the full mark lower than other bikes, which reduces the oil volume even further.

Explains why it hardly uses any oil while my R75/7 just blows the first 10mm out in a week or so then settles down at that level.

Adds some weight to the argument the main benefit of the sump extender comes when it is used with the same volume of oil, and gets the oil down a bit lower, away from the spinning crankshaft.

It is also claimed that the increased crankcase volume will reduce pumping losses - must be something in that too as F1 cars run a large pump which sucks the oil and air out and keeps keeps a vacuum in the sump, which must reduces the pumping losses to around zero.

Thanks for the linlk to Boxxerparts - that is the cheapest I have seen the extender and fixing kit.!
 
Beemerboff said:
It is also claimed that the increased crankcase volume will reduce pumping losses - must be something in that too as F1 cars run a large pump which sucks the oil and air out and keeps keeps a vacuum in the sump, which must reduces the pumping losses to around zero.!
Click to expand...

I think that's more to do with G forces slinging the oil to either side of the engine.
That's on of the main reason Porsche failed at Indy cars in the 90's... couldn't keep the oil in the sump. I nearly got my hands on a rocker cover from that engine but in the end Porsche scrapped, (crushed),every engine except the one in the museum.

John
 
Beemerboff said:
It is also claimed that the increased crankcase volume will reduce pumping losses - must be something in that too as F1 cars run a large pump which sucks the oil and air out and keeps keeps a vacuum in the sump, which must reduces the pumping losses to around zero.
Click to expand...

Known as a dry sump - been around for decades.

You used to be able to get kits to dry sump Mk1 and Mk2 Ford Escorts so that you didn't have to worry about the oil pick up spending most of it's time in fresh air when rallying. It's also standard practice in many marine and aero engines (for obvious reasons).

Engines designed to run with a dry sump from the outset often have tricky oil scavenging pumps in their little sumps which are more like rootes blowers than the gear pumps we're used to (they don't mind sucking oil, air or a mixture of the two ;) ).

cheers
M
 
Redboots said:
Just about all bikes were dry sump in "my day"... maybe not the Squareiel though..
John
Click to expand...

The very early (500cc / 600cc) Square fours were wet sump - with splash-fed roller bottom ends on overhung cranks.

Then they moved to a separate oil tank cast integral with the crankcases.

Later, Ariel moved away from chain driven OHC onto the pushrod 1,000cc motors - starting with two-pipe iron engines, then alloy two-pipe and lastly alloy four-pipe motors. These used plain bearings with a separate oil tank (6 pints on the 2-pipe, 8 pints on the 4-pipe).

Yes - I had a 4G back in the '60s and almost bought a stripped 600 OHC dry sump motor once - but too much of it was missing for it to be of any use :D

I have exploded diagrams of these motors somewhere.

Sorry . . . :topic

Bob.
 
XT 500, Honda 500 four, 750, dry sump
the reason was to cool better the oil (not afected by engin heat in the casting), easy to have a large capacity with a small engine casting
Not having rods slowered by this passing in oil

Some 911 Porsche had 11 liters of oil in the tank, imagine an oil pan for that...
and the clearance between engine and ground :(

BMW genuine oil therostatics are not always great, mine on my RS is not working well

For a GS, I think the relocated oil cooler (under steering as a /7) plus good oil brand is enough ?
I've never seen a BMW engine had a problem with oil (genuine engine)
Police engine runs at high winter temp for many things without isues, like bike race "le tour de france"

I speak only about not modified engine, or slightly modified
 
Mick13 said:
Some 911 Porsche had 11 liters of oil in the tank, imagine an oil pan for that...
Click to expand...

14 litres including the oil cooler... Could have been expensive for an oil change with Mobil1 but I used to get it from the BX:D:augie

Mick13 said:
BMW genuine oil therostatics are not always great, mine on my RS is not working well
Click to expand...

The standard GS oil cooler does not have a thermostat. I have an HPN unit:rolleyes:

John
 
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