More woe! What is going on!

[Slipperyeel]

I'm back... With more woe.

For those not familiar, last week I broke down in France on my return trip from Italy. Diagnosed a being the regulator/rectifier - so BMW fitted a new alternator, with it's regulator/rectifier all as one.

I rode home. Trouble free.

First free moment today, I cleaned the bike - still covered in salt after the Swiss leg of the journey. one finished cleaning and drying with a cloth, I tried to start it up, as I always do after cleaning. Nothing! A copy of what happened in France! But I could also smell electrical burning! So I disconnected the battery. Left the bike outside to dry a little more.

Moved bike inside. Reconnected the battery. Tried to start it. Same again.

Took off the tank. I see nothing out of the ordinary. Just a shining new alternator and the computer module that piggy backs onto what I think is the ZFE, which wasn't push home into it's clips.

Connected the GS911 to see what came up. First on the list was "no contact" with a list of things (dash, tyre pressure monitoring and others). The main fault however was "starter relay _ _ _ ". at this moment, sparks spontaneously appeared around the back of the alternator (see pics for location of sparks)!!! It tries to start (tank not on!). I leg it into the house to get a O2 extinguisher!!!

Then off its own accord it sparks again and an attempts to turn over!

I missed the full GS911 read out it as I had legged it to get the CO2 extinguisher.
Came back and again, spontaneously, it began sparking and now tried to start. I can't remember if that was with the kill switch set to off or I did that after the second sparking.

Battery disconnected.

Couple of pics attached.

WTF is going on? Arghhhhhh

 

[digby]

Sounds like your problem may not have been the alternator but the relay

 

[Slipperyeel]

Sounds like your problem may not have been the alternator but the relay

That's exactly what I'm bloody thinking! Bit of a miracle it got me home!

Do you know where the relay is?

2011 GSA

 

[Flintlock]

Think you need the local Priest in to preform an exorcism

 

[mpgscott]

I had a 2011 one and it was the ignition switch, this was only at 7k and done in warrenty. I remember the bmw guy stating that it was water ingress at the switch with mashing it. I recall stating that this is an adventure bike and can’t handle a hose.

Anyway, never seen any further issues o over the years and had plenty of these bikes and touch wood all been fine.

 

[Slipperyeel]

I had a 2011 one and it was the ignition switch, this was only at 7k and done in warrenty. I remember the bmw guy stating that it was water ingress at the switch with mashing it. I recall stating that this is an adventure bike and can’t handle a hose.

Anyway, never seen any further issues o over the years and had plenty of these bikes and touch wood all been fine.

Thanks for that. it's on the list!
On my ignition switch, the little sprung cover went missing a few years ago...so that hose pipe could have worked it's magic?!

 

[Slipperyeel]

Think you need the local Priest in to preform an exorcism

Fire brigade might be more useful

 

[Santa-2512]

The key barrel and switch are two different things, and the later switches are potted, so sealed for life,

Thers not much in one , a small micro switch and that's yer lot

 

[Slipperyeel]

I found the relay. Well, there are two in my case

I'm not familiar with this pin/spade layout with a view to testing them. Any ideas?

Some pics attached.

 

[SBD]

I thought this might help https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DIN_72552 but it doesn’t mention 3 & 5 which appear to be the bigger pair of connectors on your relays. I guess they’re the moving contact (C) and the normally open (NO) contact.

The other (smaller) pair should be the relay coil. Resistance something like 5-20 ohms.

The coil should close with a firm click if you put 12 V on it. If it’s a starter relay, it will probably take an amp, or a couple of amps and will overheat if you keep it on more than a few seconds. When the relay coil is energised, the other two contacts should have a really low resistance, less than an ohm, and when the relay is off, it should be infinite.

Sparking is not normal, I’ve never seen that with an alternator. The alternator has a permanent live to the battery, that wire/connector could spark. I’d look at that first.

 

[Santa-2512]

I found the relay. Well, there are two in my case

I'm not familiar with this pin/spade layout with a view to testing them. Any ideas?

Some pics attached.

Thats the mini relay see here

RealOEM.com - Online BMW Parts Catalog

BMW parts K25 (R 1200 GS) R 1200 GS 10 (0450,0460) Diagram Selection

www.realoem.com

 

[Slipperyeel]

I thought this might help https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DIN_72552 but it doesn’t mention 3 & 5 which appear to be the bigger pair of connectors on your relays. I guess they’re the moving contact (C) and the normally open (NO) contact.

The other (smaller) pair should be the relay coil. Resistance something like 5-20 ohms.

The coil should close with a firm click if you put 12 V on it. If it’s a starter relay, it will probably take an amp, or a couple of amps and will overheat if you keep it on more than a few seconds. When the relay coil is energised, the other two contacts should have a really low resistance, less than an ohm, and when the relay is off, it should be infinite.

Sparking is not normal, I’ve never seen that with an alternator. The alternator has a permanent live to the battery, that wire/connector could spark. I’d look at that first.

Thanks for that. Actually a really useful link!
As you say, no no's.3 or 5 listed...
Interested in your comment about the alternator having a permanent live to the battery. This could be a clue.

I have now seen an alternator o(r was it the regulator?!) sparking! Really really hoping something in it isn't now buggered!

I'm just a little stumped as BMW Metz seemed to have fixed it. I rode back through at least 2hrs of heavy rain, stopped for fuel, stopped for the train, stopped at the shops once home. It really seemed to be working!

 

[Mr Bean]

Can @Mistacat or @Steptoe assist?

 

[Mistacat]

On the 2011 bike the 2 relays are under the tank both are identical and interchangeable, one is for the spot lights the other is the starter relay.
These are standard relays available from any auto supplies even Halfords.

 

[Slipperyeel]

On the 2011 bike the 2 relays are under the tank both are identical and interchangeable, one is for the spot lights the other is the starter relay.
These are standard relays available from any auto supplies even Halfords.

Hello Mistacat. Thanks for the info. This interesting because I had no spots for the return journey (from France, after that 'fix'). I just assumed the mechanic had disconnected EVERY accessory. But now I'm wondering if there's more going on.

When I plugged in the GS911, I did a scan and at the top of the page it listed a string of things it could not connect with. That list seemed to consist of native accessories, spot lights among them. as also mentioned above, the main fault listed was the starter relay... and as I was reading this, the sparking started!

If they relay was buggered, then I'm wondering if the BMW mechanic switched them around and that, he thought, solved it?

What would make a relay fail?

 

[SBD]

Age, overcurrent through the contacts, or being stuck on and overheating.

 

[SBD]

On the 2011 bike the 2 relays are under the tank both are identical and interchangeable, one is for the spot lights the other is the starter relay.
These are standard relays available from any auto supplies even Halfords.

If this is the case, forget about my concern about overheating, the relay should be able to stay on for hours without problems.

 

[Slipperyeel]

I've checked both the relays with my power supply and DVM. They both seem just fine, assuming my tests were done current.

I need someone with a better head than me on electrics. Lots of symptoms but I don't quite know enough to make sense of them.

If it sparked and tried to turnover all on its own, then surely it points to a bad short somewhere?

 

[adventuredon]

Maybe try a new relay or 2, can't be expensive and will rule that out ?

 

[Slipperyeel]

Maybe try a new relay or 2, can't be expensive and will rule that out ?

I'm looking right now. Thanks to Santa,I got the part number which has made the search much easier. But they are not proving so easy to find!