Most strange 1200Gs problem

[johnpatsa]

Hello everyone..last 1+ year i suffer from a very strange running problem that nobody cant find.. event dealer's with diagnostic etc.
The problem is that the bike 2010 twincam R 1200Gsa is running very rough..the throttle response is terrible and the exhaust note is veey deep..(you probably think TPS etc)i searched everything...the strange thing is that when i wash the bike the problem disappears..the engine is very smooth the throttle response incredible and very fun to drive..i love it..but only for a few days..after 1-2 days the bike adapts again and start running poorly again..no one give me explanation..the same thing happens when i disconnect the TPS and connect again..or disconnect the battery..
So i changed TPS...at the start i thought it solved..but bike adapted again and same thing..so i changed every sensor I thought may cutting power yo the bike...

Tps
All 4 coils
Lambda sensor
Knock sensor
Throttle body cleaning

Still same problem.
Yesterday i went to remapp the bike(i have decat pipes and Akrapovic)
The dyno exposed the problem 101 horsepower on the rear wheel..you will say okk.. after remaping and riching the fuel the bike still 102ps or some runs under 100..so it cant get power... something cutting the bike power..the only value on the diagnosis is strange is the knock sensor on the one cylinder is more voltage that the other...the guy said maybe some parts accessories are shaking and making knock sensor thinks that pinging so cutt power...so removed every metal part.skid plate etc...same problem..

Im so disappointed..i gave so much money and nobody can answer me

Why after wash working good gor some time..after a while why the management adapts and runs poor..

No fault codes no nothing

Hope you have an idea

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[Santa-2512]

You might have given yourself the answer in your opening post.

"it runs well once it's washed"...

2 thoughts spring to mind.

1) The water is seaking a vacuum or air leak

2) The water is creating a short between two electrical circuits .

I'd be filling a bottle with water and squirting various areas of the bike to see when / where the changes occur


have you tried resetting all adaptions back to base, and then running the bike without washing it?

 

[johnpatsa]

I think that its not something with air leak...my opinion is that some sensor change the running map..thats why the running isnt changing instantly..the ecu have to adapt and learn some values so it changes the running map..
The bike running good when

1)wash the bike
2)remove tps and install again
3)remove battery and install again

After 1-2 days com back to normal.. isn't standard..

My thoughts was that something is shaking a skid plate or something and the engine reads knock from the sensor..so cuts ignition angle..the water can fill some space and not shake some part
The install-uninstall tps maybe reset the map to normal until read some values and put it in <<safe mode>>
The safe with the battery until the ecu learns

One friend said to change the injectors to see if the knock goes from the one cylinder to Another..

Can anyone see the values and tell me of its normal the differences?

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[stonehenge]

101 bhp at the wheel is about right. I had a twin cam with Akra headers and Remus can that produced 106 after mapping.

 

[botus]

100 at the rear wheel is a lot for an old simple engine like this....

only a joke dyno will measure much more. you need altered cam timing / valve lift and bigger throttle bodies (or nitrous), if you want to see 110 bhp

interesting point re wet bike and a vac issue, may as well follow that up as so simple. then I'd be doing a compression test, reset valve clearances, fit decent iridium plugs, set throttle body balance, then see what any of that tells you

remapping anything when somethings not running correctly is a total waste of time, money and effort and a clear sign a robbing crook wanted your money and it was never going to help.

 

[johnpatsa]

Yes 100hp is good...but it gave 100 hp the first time with the issue and without remapp...after resetting the problem with install-unistall the TPS we run again immediately before ecu adapts..the resuly was 101hp but in some areas had 7hp more differences especially in low and mid areas...

After that we rich the fuel to 13.2:1 and the bike gave 100-98hp and adapted again to the problem...

Noone can find what happens

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[chablis]

Wash the bike every three days.

GLWTSearch

 

[Steptoe]

Do you use a Jet-washer or wash the bike by hand ?

 

[Popell]

Who did the remap

 

[botus]

significant low and mid range gains are possible on an NA engine with a remap..... as if done well as they can remove the emission and noise regulation imposed on the manufacturer.

a very easy way to reduce noise output is to wind back output. no power = no noise. there used to be a ride past a noise meter flat out at a certain speed 35 years back... it will still be similar. and then euro 3 meant any petrol anywhere wasn't allowed, both of which is why bog standard old GS1200's can't make stable power below 3k rpm or decent power below 5k

remove that engineered in silliness and the bikes a different animal, but top end won't do anything. Its air cooled and has knock sensors so its quite close top end to being "flat out" already with current valve timing and retaining flexibility down the bottom most want. the only thing would be if the exhaust strangled it, but I don't think that's really the case. it only makes power to 8k rpm on two cylinders. Its not a four pot making 200 bhp at 12k rpm which would need to flow a bit more gas. So you shouldn't be looking for big top end gains. Whereas an LC where the pistons and heads are actually cooled down and it revs to 9k maybe

 

[(RIP) Bin Ridin]

Out of curiosity (as an owner f a 2010 GSA) :
If the exhaust flap in place and is it working properly?
Have you checked the running with Knock-sensors disconnected and with Lambda sensors disconnected, just as part of info gathering?

 

[botus]

how were you cooling down the bike on a dyno ?

successive runs on an air cooled bike with a pathetic fan probably not pushing significant flow over both the oil cooler and each of the cyl heads.... it was probably at melting point with the pistons getting tighter and tighter…. and what oil ?

dyno runs are not a good idea on anything.... even water cooled bikes with a fan hitting one big rad will be getting 50% of the cooling they need, on the shops I've seen with a fan pushing next to nothing across the bike a GS was probably getting 30% of the cooling it ought to have

 

[johnpatsa]

Yoday i found these values..my knock sensor cylinder 1 without washing at 4100rpm starts to take very strange values..from the other side whem i wash it the knock sensors are quite close each other at these rom area..

Im think of maybe a loosen bolt or something like this have bees dropped on the engine block and shakes at these rpm...the metallic noise makes knock sensor read strange values and cut Ignition advance to protect the engine from ping..

Tomorrow i will take off the airbox and the tank to inspect...

Anyone issued something like this?

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[Smug]

Did you fit the knock sensor bolts to the correct torque?

 

[johnpatsa]

Did you fit the knock sensor bolts to the correct torque?

Yes cleaned the surface that was rusted and torque at 20nm i think...a specialist did the job

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[JJH]

If it was the knock sensor surely the problem would be immediate. A knock sensor that reacts after 3 days isn’t much good. JJH

 

[johnpatsa]

If it was the knock sensor surely the problem would be immediate. A knock sensor that reacts after 3 days isn’t much good. JJH

Im thinking that something is shaking on the engine block and the knock sensors read it...when i wash the bike something stops shaking until the water evaporates and thats why is operating different afyer wash..i cant give another explanation

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[Slipperyeel]

Im thinking that something is shaking on the engine block and the knock sensors read it...when i wash the bike something stops shaking until the water evaporates and thats why is operating different afyer wash..i cant give another explanation

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Based on this, it does suggest electrics... and the water is helping a poor connection... Try spraying just one side of the bike as you normally do - or just wash one side. See what happens. Might at least narrow your search.

Sorry if you've already mentioned it, but are you using a jet washer when you 'wash' the bike?



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[johnpatsa]

Yed i use pressure washers but after an damage at the alarm im very carefully where i put the watergun...anyway lets see what happens...even bmw dealer's refused to search this strange problem

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[Slipperyeel]

Yed i use pressure washers but after an damage at the alarm im very carefully where i put the watergun...anyway lets see what happens...even bmw dealer's refused to search this strange problem

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Electric fault finding can be a pain... You'll get there and I reckon we're all going to learn from it... I'd dump the jet washer as well... they seem to cause problems rather than solving. Never used one myself, but I can understand the temptation...

I'm not sure if it would cause your issue, but have you looked at the lambda sensor connections? Just thinking aloud... they are a good candidate to get filled with water and if the connections are dodgy...


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